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In the "Fire" position there is a little flop to the safety lever. It will turn with excessive force to the safe position, but I am reluctant to do so.
I've taken the bolt part way down and doused Kroil in the safety, then re-assembled - to no avail.
Any thoughts on the problem and how to cure it?
Thanks
PBSmith:
Sometimes the grooves on the safety and the cocking piece don't quite line up, try pulling the cocking piece back a little as you engage the safety. If it's not too bad you can file a little approach in the grooves on the safety, or the cocking piece. Or, replace some of the parts...........in case someone else has already filed them incorrectly.
This happens on 03s too.
The first thing I would do is a complete teardown of the bolt, followed by a thorough cleaning and light lube.
Reassemble and test. sometimes a good deep clean is all that is needed. It is something to check before taking a file or stones to ~120 year old parts. Especially if it worked earlier.
Robert
+2
i agree with this
Is your Krag a "parts baby"? If it was built up from parts, or even if it's all original and has been used extensively, the sear or the cocking piece may be worn to out of spec. The smooth turning of the safety is dependent upon the sear pushing the cocking piece back to the correct distance when the bolt is closed, so if one or the other is a bit worn then the correct distance isn't achieved. If the suggested cleaning doesn't work, then closely inspect these parts--perhaps someone in the past filed on them trying for a better trigger pull. These parts are available, and usually easily found on e-bay.
DG
Relics, I tried your suggestion of pulling back on the cocking piece and turning the safety lever - no go.
DG, I don't believe this is a "parts baby," and it does not appear that anyone filed, honed or otherwise altered the parts you describe.
Mk42, I disassembled the bolt into its basic components and cleaned per your suggestion. Therein did I discover what I believe is the problem. Even when separated from the other bolt components, the safety lever is still difficult to turn.
The safety lever appears to be held into the rear of what Numerich calls the "bolt sleeve" by a ball that rides in a circular groove in the sleeve. My best guess is the ball is pushed into the groove by a spring behind it, housed in a tiny hole in the safety lever. Possibly that spring is either broken, corroded or clogged with dirt, gunk, etc. After trying to work various solvents and lubricants in behind the ball, the lever has started to become somewhat easier to turn, but is still hard to move and much stiffer than on my other Krag.
DG, I have noticed on this forum you are quite the Krag aficionado. In your work with these guns, have you ever removed the safety lever from the bolt sleeve? If so, would you care to post instructions for doing so? I believe I can clear up the problem if I can get at the ball and what I believe must be a spring behind it.
I appreciate all of your responses.
Try to take an awl and slide the point between the ball and groove that it runs in. Depress the ball with the point to get it loose. And of course use some penetrating oil to help loosen it up.
Thank you Baltimoreed. With your encouragement and advice, I was able to work the safety off the bolt sleeve. The "ball" I spoke of turns out to be a plunger. I'm doubtful it's removable unless the shaft of the safety happens to be threaded into the thumb lever and can be unscrewed. My initial thought is the shaft is likely pressed in. There is a spring behind the plunger but it's not got much life. Threw the thing into an ATF/Acetone "bath" and will resume efforts tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoreed
Had to do that to the safety on one of my ‘03 rebuilds. Hopefully it will free up.
Attachment 283573
Click to enlarge.
PB-- sorry about being slow to get back to you, but today was dentist visit day. Here a photo of one I just took apart. When you do that, take the bolt apart and take the safety out of the sleeve it is best done much like Ed described it. I used a scribe. Position the safety wing in the vertical position between the two dimples that receive the plunger when it is completely on or off safe. Work the sharp point in between the plunger and the bottom of the groove, wiggle and push until the plunger is depressed into it's hole. Now the surprise, the safety will come off to the rear over the back ridge of the groove. If you've got a scribe pushed in there tightly you can actually facilitate matters by tapping the safety wing toward the rear with a little non-marring hammer. When you get it out you will find that the plunger is held captive by the safety's shaft. Well, at least you don't have to search for it under your bench or across the room.
Closer inspection will reveal that the shaft is driven into and through the rounded bottom of the safety. This is sometimes difficult to see because the part was polished and the exterior of the joint obscured, but maybe holding it to the light and rolling it back and forth a bit will let you spot it, or you could even get some fine W&D paper and sand it a bit to see it. Then, if your thought processes work like mine, you will say, "Well, I could pound the shaft out and remove the plunger, spring, old oil crud that might be restricting the spring's ability to compress, or replace the spring if necessary, and reverse reassemble." If you do that you'll have to get the shaft back in exactly right because you'll note that the end that enters the sleeve is cut a certain way so as to mate with an internal groove in the top interior of the bolt sleeve when turned one way, to either allow or prevent movement of the cocking knob and firing pin extension. So look at it carefully and put it back the same way.
What will the end result be? I'm not sure, because I've never done one. I would have some apprehension about the safety's shaft remaining tight in the safety's wing after being removed and then replaced because of the hole being enlarged in the removal/replacement operation. It is possible that the application of heat to the safety wing might aid in removal and replacement. It is also possible that it may have been soldered in place. So, the way my mind works, it's much easier to just replace the part. Can't be very expensive. Go to e-bay, type "Krag" in "search" and you'll be surprised what comes up. Many parts. Go back and do it again a week later and half of them will have changed/rolled over to a different selection, different prices. Or, just order one from one of the parts houses.
My advice, sir.
DG
DG,Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
Thanks for that excellent description. Yes, I was disappointed to discover I would not be able to drop the plunger and spring free. That should have been apparent even before I removed the safety. It's just as well I was unsuccessful in unscrewing the shaft of the safety because I had not thought about its orientation until after I gave up.
It appears to me that the spring is either broken or so badly corroded as to be useless, which explains why the wing or lever was floppy in the "Fire" position - the spring was not pushing it into the deep recess at the end of the circular groove in the sleeve
If I were bold, and a skilled gunsmith, I might try removing the shaft with the hope that I could sweat-solder the two parts back together after replacing the spring.
Not being such a person, I'd gladly pay a modest price for another safety rather than venture into the unknown with torch, hammer, punches and prayers. I'll keep my eyes open on e-bay. I appreciate your time and sharing of expertise.
PBSmith
DG,
Just retrieved the safety from an overnight ATF/Acetone bath and find it unimproved from what I described earlier. The plunger is loose in the thumb lever and I'm able to move it freely with tweezers or by tapping on the lever. It looks to me like the plunger spring should push the plunger out until its tip rests on the shaft, or close to it.
I'd re-consider the possibility of disassembly and replacement of the plunger spring if I thought sweat soldering would be strong enough for the shaft/thumb lever connection. Do you believe it would be strong enough? On my one other Krag, the safety is easy to flip back and forth, but the amount of effort required would depend on the fit of the shaft end with other parts. Then, as you point out, there is the question of a precise alignment of the shaft in the thumb lever.
I'm exploring the replacement option. So far all I find is one safety, priced at Scalp Level
Well, PB, it's entirely your call. Your gun. Is there any springy resistance at all to the plunger since the acetone bath? Maybe if you soak it some more and work the plunger in and out with a very small flat bladed screw driver it will improve more and good enough to put back into service. I'm sure that if you reinstalled it now most of the resistance to being turned will be gone, but the question is will it stay in the position in which you put it, safe or fire?
Might as well ramble on a bit. I know that there are those on the Forum who looked at the advice I gave you to just replace the part who have their noses in the air sniffing "No gunsmith there--parts changer." But, the philosophy I always followed in my gunsmithing endeavors is that time is money. So there is that balance of is it worth your time, and then a third factor to figure in is practicality. It's almost true that anything can be fixed, and any situation rectified, but is it practical to do so? Not to me in this instance, if a replacement part is readily available. But, as already said, it's your call entirely.
One way to look at it, if time doesn't matter and money is short is that you have nothing to lose by attempting a repair. If you're successful, you'll have done something that myself and many others have not, put a feather in your cap, and earn some justified bragging rights. Also, perhaps, you'll destroy the part in attempting to repair it. If so, it's not a great tragedy or the end of the world, as somewhere around the better part of a million of these rifles were made in one guise or another, and a million is a lot of anything, and a lot of parts. In fact, the arsenals know that parts will be replaced, so they make many more than needed, and the problem just becomes finding one at a good price.
Not having done this repair myself, I have to hope that someone more experienced may step up to guide you. I think I'd try putting it in a padded vise with the tip of the shaft pointing down and give the back of it a few smacks with a sturdy pin punch and medium weight hammer. If it didn't show signs of movement I'd try heating the rounded part of the safety wing's base with a small propane torch to try and expand the safety wing away from the shaft, and repeat the hammer and punch immediately while hot. If there is any solder the heat will melt it out. If it is a press fit then the fit probably won't be as tight when you reassemble it, so then you'll need soder, although JB Weld might work.
Good luck on whatever you decide.
DG
Perhaps a ultrasonic cleaner would help in this situation? Or soak in Kroil for a week.
Thanks DG and zar.
Work in progress.
I have concluded that the spring is broken, judging from the "crunchy" reaction when I push on the plunger with a small screwdriver blade. By tapping on the thumb lever or wing it is possible to get the spring parts oriented so that there is s little springiness on the plunger, but nothing that will make it functional.
I also discovered, following DG's suggestion of polishing the end of the safety lever or wing, that the end of the shaft, where it exits the thumb lever, is pentagonal: five-sided, with sharp points. I tapped gently on the shaft end with hammer and punch, no heat. Nothing moved. The thumb lever seems to be hardened, but the shaft definitely is not, at least this one isn't.
Am exploring parts and experience via various sources.
Re-assembled everything this evening so as to not lose parts or understanding of the dis- and reassembly procedures. Safety function is same as when I started this thread: usable but difficult to move.
Again, appreciate your inputs. Will report on further progress.
An update here on my repair of a broken safety on the 1898 Springfield Krag.
After looking at the 1898 Krag safeties for sale on the internet, I decided I didn’t want to buy and install a used one. Safeties for the 1896 Krag are plentiful. The scarcity of safeties for the 1898 model and the high asking prices tell me that failure of the original part on this year model is common. Why pay all that money for another part that might suffer the same problem as mine?
So I was determined to make a fix.
Earlier posts here by Der Gebirgsjager and Baltimoreed tell how to remove the safety from the bolt assembly.
The challenge was in getting the safety itself apart. Its two main pieces – thumb lever and the round finger or prong that turns in the bolt sleeve – are pressed or forged together in a rather unique way. Without going into detail, I used a steel tubing spacer, a cut-off flat-head nail and a machinist’s vise to separate the two parts. The picture below shows the separated parts. As you can see, the plunger spring was shattered into small pieces. This explains why the safety lever was floppy in the "Fire" position and difficult to turn.
Attachment 286749
Numerich Gun Parts sells a replacement spring, but again, I reasoned, why take chances with a part that might suffer the same problems as the one on my rifle?
Fortunately one end of my broken spring was still intact, which allowed me to get a good idea of what the original looks like. I had on-hand music wire of correct diameter and decided to make my own spring. The image below shows the work in progress: wrapping the wire around a box nail of correct diameter.
Attachment 286750
Getting the length of the spring and spacing of the coils is critical because the finished spring must compress to about 1/4” but must also exert enough force against the plunger when extended so that the plunger snaps into the hemi-spherical holes at the “Fire” and “Safe” positions on the bolt sleeve.
After several tries, I managed to form a spring that looked like it would do the job.
Attachment 286751
Note in the first photo that the opening in the back side of the thumb lever is five-sided. After cleaning up the end of the finger, which was round after I disassembled it, I was able to tap it into the hole in the lever. After making sure it was oriented correctly, I applied tinner’s acid and puddled solder over the end, hoping that solder would be drawn down into the corners of the pentagon and adhere to both parts. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the thumb lever is hardened steel, but the finger is relatively soft.
Got everything back together and the safety works as it should. I’ll be curious to learn if the soldered joint holds over the long haul. Note that in the last photo (below), the plunger will bear against the round prong (with only slight force) when the spring is of correct length.
If anyone needs to make this repair to an 1898 safety, feel free to ask questions or request more detail.
I’ve got an idea on a possible better way to disassemble the safety.
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
That is some gunsmithing there, neat work, sir.
Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk
oh!!!!! ya beat mine!!!!!!!!! nice werk.
i have a 91 argentine that needed a ejection spring. unfortunately, no one has them. so i made it with hanger strap and mr dremel tool. when i was done, it was greased up and put into the bolt stop assembly. it werks fine.i aslo could do it with pvc pipe clamp too.
https://i.imgur.com/APBimGX.jpg
goes into this
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/3080
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oatey-Galva...rap/1001120628