I can't believe how good the "Inexpensive Rifles" are nowadays !

So the other day I was wandering around my local Big 5 Sporting Goods Store while waiting for my VW to get serviced.

I walked by the gun rack which is pretty well stocked for a California Store and I noticed this one rifle.

It had a flat black barrel and action and an OD Green Stock. It was a Ruger American Rifle in .308 cal and it was $349.95! It was the Predator Model.

Didn't need it as I already have a Scout in .308, but I liked the look of the gun so much it was genuinely tempting. I handled it and it was smooth operating and the fit and finish was superb. It has one of those Savage Type Triggers, a removable Magazine and a Threaded Muzzle on a 18" barrel.

Right next to it was 3-4 Mini 14's all priced at $795-850! There was several other nice looking rifles all of which were priced higher,,,, for less. IMHO.

What blew me away, is how much gun you can get for $350. I have several Very Used Guns that I paid way more for!

It needed an Optic of some type mounted to the Pic Rail mounts and you were ready to go.

I have no doubt it would be a good shooter and a great hunting rifle.

Lots of gun for the money! But the reality here is that the Distributor Price for this gun IE; what Ruger sells it for to an outfit like Lipsey's or Davidsons has to be in the $200-250 range! That means that Ruger is producing this gun for under $150!

WOW!

Randy

How true. Savage,Ruger,Mossberg and Remington seem to have a model that are easy to buy. The thing is they all shoot better than you would ever expect. I bought a Savage Axis,in 30-06,just to shoot cast from. It amazed me from the start!
They are not shinny nor fancy but looks don't kill,other than your wallet!

From what I gather, I would stay away from the Remy brand, but I really like the looks/action of the others. I even have 4 of the H&R single shot models as well.

I noticed that too. Seems like the "super accurate" rifles that were around in the old days are no longer scarce but available brand new over the counter, entirely affordable and pretty darn nice to boot. I have been down the road of accurizing factory rifles and converting military rifles. It sure gives me a pause when I see the price tag on some of these package outfits. The real kicker is that so many of them will shoot the magic inch groups right out of the box. I have shot a Remington 770 that did this and quite a few Savage bargain rifles that did it too.
Given the time and effort I have put in trying to get rifles to shoot like that over the years, it seems I could have saved a pile of money and uncounted hours just by getting a cheap rifle.

Computer controlled machining is our friend!!

These rifles do seem to shoot the magic inch from what I've heard. And if you think about it...that means that you don't miss the point that you are aiming at by more than 0.5"...which is good enough for ground squirrels out past 200yds. Not too shabby.

I agree, the new "consumer market" rifles are a great deal and most are very accurate, especially for the money. They will fit the bill for many wanting a decent rifle for less money.

That being said, they are not my type of rifle. I suppose I'm too old or maybe too conservative. I tend to lean towards steel and wood and most of the time control feed models, i.e., Mauser variants. Two of my favorites are an older Husqvarna FN Mauser in 6.5x55 and my more recent purchase, a JC Higgins Model 50, FN Mauser in 30-06, which by the way, was purchased for the same cost of the Ruger Anerican,,,, $350.

It's your choice, that's why we have so many to choose from.

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Originally Posted by shredder

. . .Given the time and effort I have put in trying to get rifles to shoot like that over the years, it seems I could have saved a pile of money and uncounted hours just by getting a cheap rifle.

Computer controlled machining is our friend!!

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To a degree, yes it is. Square shoulders, square breech faces, tight threads, and the simple fitting of A to B are the necessary elements to accuracy, and these are things that robots do exceptionally well. They also do it cheaply, which is all to the good.

The problem is that so much emphasis has been placed on using this CNC equipment to make a cheaper rifle that very little effort has gone into figuring out how to make a NICE rifle more cheaply. If it can give us an utterly bare bones assemblage of pins, plungers and coil springs that merely sends lead downrange consistently for $350, then surely it can give us a TOTALLY BULLETPROOF Pre-'64 M70, M98, or M1917 sporter with controlled feed and steel bottom metal that shoots as well for $500.

They made those guns to outfit armies of MILLIONS back in the day - don't tell me they cost too much to make, and don't tell me we can't make them even better for less now.

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Originally Posted by Bigslug

To a degree, yes it is. Square shoulders, square breech faces, tight threads, and the simple fitting of A to B are the necessary elements to accuracy, and these are things that robots do exceptionally well. They also do it cheaply, which is all to the good.

The problem is that so much emphasis has been placed on using this CNC equipment to make a cheaper rifle that very little effort has gone into figuring out how to make a NICE rifle more cheaply. If it can give us an utterly bare bones assemblage of pins, plungers and coil springs that merely sends lead downrange consistently for $350, then surely it can give us a TOTALLY BULLETPROOF Pre-'64 M70, M98, or M1917 sporter with controlled feed and steel bottom metal that shoots as well for $500.

They made those guns to outfit armies of MILLIONS back in the day - don't tell me they cost too much to make, and don't tell me we can't make them even better for less now.

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Sure they can.....and you and about seventeen other folks on the planet would buy them.

actually they are about 600 bucks.
look at the Ruger Hawkeye rifle.
it's controlled feed, has a a nice trigger, and shoots very well.

it might not be wood and blued but that's a fact of modern.
nice wood is expensive and hard to find [you could get a beech stock] polishing for nice bluing takes a skilled craftsman's touch with several steps needed. [time, this slows down production and drives up costs]

Are new Hawkeyes down to $600? I paid around $900 for one a few years back. It was below MSRP but only by a little.

My experience w/ bargain rifles has been positive. I'm surprised no one has posted yet how they are all junk and they won't shoot MOA. That's usually what happens when they are discussed.

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Originally Posted by liliysdad

Sure they can.....and you and about seventeen other folks on the planet would buy them.

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Only seventeen? Is the Walmartian percentage of the NRA that high these days? Do we worry so little about HOW our rifle works? Do we want the grandkids to remember us by the Hyundai Excel we handed down to them? Are the people selling the guns SO BAD at pointing out the technical merits of the designs that were capable of surviving combat?

Apparently, the answer is "yes". And don't mistake me - I'm glad the market has such rifles. My gripe is that the rifle I would buy for a loaner/beater seems to be turning into the king of the market's share. Even the 700, which was brought to us as just such a cheap rifle with its cast aluminum floorplate and stamped trigger is now regarded as the "sexy" option.

My point is, the old guns went away because they were costly to produce with WHAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME. With the technology where it is today, we should be making the bygone classic rifle equivalents of the 7-series BMW at the comparative price point of a V6 Toyota Camry. Instead, the industry is fixated on making 4-banger Corollas, and the segment of the market that WOULD spend the little bit extra for the new version of the old BMW is spending their money on 60+ year old relics at the used rack.

Is the middle class dying out in the gun market too? Or is the industry just waiting on guys who know the difference to die?

I bought my hawkeye in 358 win when they first come out and paid 615.00 then, I seen one in 257 Roberts right afterwards and should have jumped on it [put it in layaway at least] I regretted not doing that.
I did however find a super nice red butt pad Winchester model 70 featherweight in 257 that helped me get over missing out on the ruger.

a buddy at work recently asked my opinion about a rifle for his boy and I suggested the Hawkeye in 7-08 [same as I recommend to anybody looking for a rifle] he looked up the price and found them to be 647.00 on the interweb sites.

Bigslug I fully understand what your saying.
if they can cut costs on the bargain rifles and retail them for 300 bucks.
why can't they upgrade the stocks, magazines, and the bottom metal and then sell them for $500.00?
just switching from MIM to CNC would upgrade the interior parts considerably but only up the cost another $50.00

I guess time will tell if these rifles are gonna last or if they are just use and toss tools like pretty much everything else produced today.

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Originally Posted by Bigslug

Is the middle class dying out in the gun market too? Or is the industry just waiting on guys who know the difference to die?

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Maybe...or perhaps there is such a glut of older, classic rifles on the secondary market that buying a new one makes little sense. With Gunbroker and internet forums, I can find just about any rifle, in any configuration and have it in my hands in very little time.

Another reason for many, including myself, is that I can have the rifle I want built at a somewhat reasonable cost and not have to settle for what some marketing guy thinks I need.

I got one of the low price marlin 30-06 with accutrigger. Shoots great, not fancy by any means though. I got it as a hunting gun so I could drop it in mud/water without ruining a nicer model. I assume most people in my price ranger do similar. It shoots ~2" groups for me @ 100yrds with 48gr 4064 and 168gr bthp.

I bought a .308 Ruger American because I needed a gun to hunt with here in California that used "Un-leaded," Something my 250 savage and .348 can't do.

Although the first one I got was not chambered correctly and was the source of considerable ire-provoking correspondence, this second one is amazing for the money. I get 3 shot 1 1/8 inch groups with it, using Barnes 150 grain solid copper bullets, using the first load I tried. I put a 175 dollar Weaver 2 x 7 on it and for 525 dollars I am set. I have seen a great many much more expensive guns that won't do as well.
And if I fall down a mountain, I don't care If I drop the gun.

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Originally Posted by Bigslug

To a degree, yes it is. Square shoulders, square breech faces, tight threads, and the simple fitting of A to B are the necessary elements to accuracy, and these are things that robots do exceptionally well. They also do it cheaply, which is all to the good.

The problem is that so much emphasis has been placed on using this CNC equipment to make a cheaper rifle that very little effort has gone into figuring out how to make a NICE rifle more cheaply. If it can give us an utterly bare bones assemblage of pins, plungers and coil springs that merely sends lead downrange consistently for $350, then surely it can give us a TOTALLY BULLETPROOF Pre-'64 M70, M98, or M1917 sporter with controlled feed and steel bottom metal that shoots as well for $500.

They made those guns to outfit armies of MILLIONS back in the day - don't tell me they cost too much to make, and don't tell me we can't make them even better for less now.

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I hear you. It sure would be nice to see some of the old designs that were so labor intensive come back. Besides the Masuer 98 control feed, M70 etc.

the newer model 70's are control feed.
Win. pretty much fell off my radar their last go round but they are starting to gain more of my attention a little bit here and there.

I bought a left hand Savage Axis in 243 for the Grandson and cut it down to old model 7 youth size for his first deer rifle. (18 inch barrel and 1 1/2 inch shorter stock) Shortening the stock turned out to be a PITA but tuning the trigger and the rest was easy. This thing shoots! The very first 5 shot group measured 5/8 inch at 100 yards! It impressed me enough that I bought a second one in 7-08 and cut it down the same way, excluding the stock shortening. After topping it with a Leupold 2X7 scope I wound up with an excellent 7 1/4 pound rifle for woods hunting.

CZ-550 (602) and the Ruger 77 are great commercial rifles at least in my eyes they will never be the cheapest since there will always be companies out there willing to make something of lesser quality to undercut a rifle that has more features and possibly a better margin of strength and durability.

Cheap rifles have their place, I try not to judge before I can at least get my hands on one and take a look at how its put together and the QC of the example. Some decent ones are out there for sure these days, ruger and savage both make quality designs that translates well to economy models. Rugers new precision rifle employs the same bolt head design as their American rifle.

The AXIS comes to mind, a group of us went together and got a dealer deal on 5 for what at the time was a very good price. Since then I believe they are even cheaper now. Though its great it is American made! Could it be better? Yes of course. Does it do what its designed to do? put meat on the table for those capable enough? Duh. We got ours for $220 after mail in rebate and that included transfer and shipping etc.

There does exist a rare person in the firearms community that enjoys hunting a little more than spending tons of money on guns and having a battery of few guns that are bare bones and fit their frugal budget....I only wish I could have that much self control.

I would like to find another axis for that price in .223 and put a heavier .223 wylde barrel on as well as have a .300 blackout barrel handy for. The fact for $200 I can get everything needed to make my .30/06 axis into a .35 whelen is very appealing as well....the couple of lines above should show why I can't keep my battery simple, I would like to modify my axis into a scout rifle configuration and get a take off '06 barrel to shorten and see how I like that (take offs are cheap) as well.

A Mossberg MVP .223 could be fun as well but I don't like all the embellishments they seem to come with.

Lots of great rifles out there, if I had to start from zero I would not hesitate to go with any of the couple popular half dozen economy bolt action rifles out there now. Save my money for a scope upgrade possibly. The car doesn't make the driver anyways.