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Ok fellas,
I'm ready to give this a try with some cast bullets for my 358 win.
I've never reloaded cast or lead for anything but a pistol years, years ago so i'm a bit itchy about making loads to hot and leading things up.
I've got a 8lb keg of mil. surplus IMR 4895 and 3 different bullets to tryout.
First question here is that the reloading tables all start at 22oo fps... Isn't that too hot for cast?
Thanks,
Spot
Spot, no, 2200 is not too fast, and in fact, you can get 2400 fairly easily without too much hassle in the 358 bore size. You probably have a 12 twist barrel, if you are using the typical 358 Winchester factory gun. If this is indeed true, then you might want to start at 2200 and work DOWN in speed before trying to go UP. Call it quits when you find the accuracy and recoil which are acceptable. Make sure your boolits are sized large enough in diameter, which means a slip fit with very slight friction in a fired case. ... felix
I'm sure the sizing is ok, but could you expand a bit more on how to check or measure what sizing you need?
OK, if I'm good at 22oo I'll start there and work down just a bit. COOL..
Question on load data, do other load books (are there cast load books) have different load data?
Thanks,
Spot
.........A cast slug is much more fragile then a jacketed slug by a good bit and it won't tolerate much mis-alignment with the barrel. If it's lying there all cattywumpus in the throat and lead, chances are it will be unable to give the best accuracy. As you know when a round is fired the neck expands to the chamber limits and releases the bullet, and then relaxes back a bit. Felix is wanting you to use a boolit that is basicly at or maybe a tiny fraction smaller then the fired caseneck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot shooter
Unless the chamber and throat dimensions are all whacked out, this should give you a good idea of what you need, diameter wise for the boolit.
Another way is to directly imprint the throat and leade, or a portion of the leade anyway. The throat is the cylindical unrifled portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber mouth. The leade is the tapered rifled portion that acts somewhat as a funnel. Some cartridges are speced to have no throat. Others, like Weatherby have long ones.
Regardless, the throat needs to provide some guidance for the slug as it leaves the case and is engraved in the leade. Ideally your cast lead slug matches the thoat's diameter and can touch the lands in the leade. The problem here is that rifles aren't built for shooting cast lead, but for jacketed slugs so things may not work out exactly like we'd wish for them to. So far as cast is concerned. We have to kind of finagle things around a bit.
To see the throat/leade get a fishing sinker of suitable size, or mash one a bit in the vise lengthwise to fatten it up. Drop it into the chamber and drive it in a suitable distance with apiece of hardwood dowel, or a steel rod. If you use steel wrap a piece of duct or masking tape on it to protect the chamber neck area. Use a cleaning rod to tap the slug back out. Even if it isn't perfect, you could be able to use your calipers to check the throat diameter (if your rifle HAS one) and to see where the rifling begins.
If the grooves are .358" and the throat is .359", then you'll want your slugs to be .359". There is no sense in using a .360" slug in a .359" throat as the boolit will just get scraped up, or it will be difficult to chamber and may get pushed back into the caseneck.
If your rifle has no throat and the leade begins right at the end of the chamber, you can seat the boolit out longer to engrave (possibly). Possibly meaning if you can do that and get the loaded round into the magazine, and have it feed from the magazine. The finageling begins once you have the throat-leade info and can then select a slug sizing (both body and nose) to fit the situation as closely as possible.
One other thing you can do to enhance guidance is to only partially size the caseneck. You leave a 1/16" or so part at the neck-shoulder junction unsized. This will help center the caseneck and consequently the boolit. Naturally we're assuming the chamber and bore are co-incident and neither are looking off in different directions :D
Cast lead load data is available in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual but a lot of that is prediminately faster powders. The Accruate Arms manual (1st Ed, don't know about the rest)has some and the Hodgden manual does.
There are a couple members here who are campaigning the 358, and Waksupi is one I know of offhand.
I will say that I can offer several that I know should produce a beginning point and should be just fine in that case with a 200 gr slug. These are all just kind of generic loads for a case that size. I'd say 10-12grs of Unique, 14-16grs of 2400, 18-20grs SR4759, ditto 4227, and 21-23grs of 4198. These are starters for velocities of from maybe 1400 to maybe 1750 fps or so.
I don't have a 358, but have a 35 Rem which is a kind of a cousin :-). If you're wanting to really honk on with the 358 I suggest trying increasing loads in slower and slower burners until you get good case volumn loads that still are producing the accuracy you're wanting. Bear in mind as you increase the load intensity your alloy may need attention and or your lube too.
I did this with my 35 Rem and found WC846 to be shear perfection with a 200gr Saeco. In developement, as the case filled the slug went faster and the groups got smaller. A neat deal when that happens. The case became full at 41.0grs and the slug was leaving at over 2200 fps. Nice combo, that! It has a 16" twist.
.................Buckshot
If you start at 2200 fps without really knowing what you're doing, I predict a sacred silver stream up and down your rifle bore. I'd start at 1700 -1800 fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot shooter