Epoxy, PC, whatever rifle boolit accuracy???

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10-07-2013, 01:58 PM
Maximumbob54

Epoxy, PC, whatever rifle boolit accuracy???

Is anyone getting a coated rifle boolit that is accurate? So far I've tried both Klass Kote, HF gloss red and matte black, and several colors of PBTP and NONE of them give any accuracy in any of my test loads. I started with what are known good loads in lubed lead loads and tinkered for a bit until I just loaded some up with jacketed data and went the opposite with mouse fart type loads and the best I'm getting is at 25 yards it's a shotgun pattern at best. I've gone plain base, GC base w/o check, with check, coated check, aluminum check, copper check, Hornady check, and probably a couple more. I'm just wasting powder and primers at this point and have called it quits only to try a couple more and fail yet again. I don't get it. With handgun shooting distance up to 25 yards it seems like they all work just fine. But nothing in .30-30 in a Marlin 336 or 8mm Mauser in a M24/47 is worth recording besides making sure I don't duplicate failure. I know I can make a Trail Boss load with a plated .308 150gr X-Treme bullet shoot straight so why can't I do the same with a coated boolit??? I've tried different sizing diameters, different alloys, different powders, and I'm just out of ideas to try.

So I'm asking for a little help here... If anyone else had done this and gotten some decent accuracy from a rifle load I would love a few tips...
10-08-2013, 01:33 AM
xacex

Popper got some decent accuracy with his PC 308 boolits. Mine are getting better. I can get a baseball size group one day, then a 8 inch plate the next at 100 yards so I am looking at other issues like brass prep and sorting. Popper might chime in on this one, but I think he was using some copper in his alloy, and water dropping. I am working on the 125 grain h/p right now (311410) for the 300 blackout trying to sort that out. Using all my time tracking down a buck right now so no range time. I wont get into detail what that boolit does to squirrels.
10-08-2013, 06:38 AM
Maximumbob54

I'm starting to wonder if they need to be rock hard and sized like they are jacketed. That may be my one next test but I need to find more lino and then water drop them after baking. Odd that I can use range scrap for pistol stuff but the rifle is being so horrible.
10-08-2013, 11:17 AM
popper

Bob - I shoot 30/30 (RD311170 GC) & AR 308 carbine (31-165B GC) with HF (ES applied) PC, MOA. 2-3% Sb, 1% Cu. I cook for >1/2 hr @ 400F then WD. Groups on the 308 started to open up @ ~2400, 2300 was good (probably need harder alloy but still NO leading). I single load the 30/30 but the 308 I fill the mag(20 rnds) so they do well with all the slamming and banging. Testing the 30/30 with H-T & 2400 tomorrow (hopefully >1600 fps), will post results.
10-08-2013, 12:07 PM
Maximumbob54

I use the RD TL311165 GC in .30-30 and I have a couple of lubed lead loads that are plenty accurate from my Marlin 336. I use Trail Boss w/out a GC for a mouse fart load that is also plenty accurate. NOTHING I've tried yet has worked out... :(

I'm eager to hear your results.
10-08-2013, 01:20 PM
fastglock

I'm having no problems here. Maybe because I lube all my rifle boolits after PC. For my 300BLK, I lube the LEE 230 with alox . And since I need to size my NOE 155 through the lubrisizer anyways, it gets the wax job. I haven't done any testing without lube from the get go, I just thought that for rifle boolits have a lot of rifling to go through before exiting so I figured the lube wouldn't hurt. And by the way, I notice that I get no PC residue in my rifle like I do my pistols(not like it's a big deal to clean).
10-08-2013, 01:46 PM
xacex

^^^been thinking of doing this as well^^^ My thought is that althought the PC is ok as a jacket a dab of JPW as a friction modifier after PC couldnt hurt, and would produce no more smoke than just PC. I have not had time to play with the idea yet. JPW works on its own or mixed into 45/45/10 for pistol, but rifle is another thing. I did test JPW to see if it was reactive to PC, and there were no issues to report after a few weeks of exposure.
10-08-2013, 02:42 PM
popper

RD TL311165 GC I tried those with poor results(had to seat too deep). Mine is the Marlin regular groove design, 170/180 PB. I'm thinking of putting it on evilbay (3x/3x GC/PB) and design another with a few changes.
10-08-2013, 03:12 PM
bangerjim

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastglock

I'm having no problems here. Maybe because I lube all my rifle boolits after PC. For my 300BLK, I lube the LEE 230 with alox . And since I need to size my NOE 155 through the lubrisizer anyways, it gets the wax job. I haven't done any testing without lube from the get go, I just thought that for rifle boolits have a lot of rifling to go through before exiting so I figured the lube wouldn't hurt. And by the way, I notice that I get no PC residue in my rifle like I do my pistols(not like it's a big deal to clean).

Are you seeing any deterioration or degradation of the coating with the JPW or LLA on there for a period of time? How long are you letting them sit B4 loading & shooting.

I have not tried any experiments on the long-term reactions of the solvent in lube on PC yet. Brings us to yet another subject!!!!

Inquiring minds need to know.

Banger
10-08-2013, 03:24 PM
Maximumbob54

I'm being very stubborn here but I refuse to add lube to these. The whole point of me even trying this was to eliminate the lube. All of mine are sized through Lee dies and with the exception of some Klass Kote that I tried to dust with graphite they all size down with no more effort than normal. I hate Hate HATE lube building up in the dies. If I put 45/45/10 on thin enough to only get minimal build up then they lead the bore and if I put it on thick enough then I get skuzz in the dies...

Although... I wonder if the missing weight of the lube in the back half is unbalancing the boolit...? Hmm....

Fastglock - If you are getting residue from your PC'ed boolits then I'm not sure what to think. I went to the point of soaking barrels in acetone to see if I could swab any epoxy paint or powder coating from the rifling and got nothing. I figured if either of them would get build up then it would be the epoxy as I don't think it cures as hard as PC does after baking.

Popper - My RD loads are straight from his own data and they do have rifling marks in the lead if I cycle one through the chamber. The plated bullets I used to load don't touch the rifling at all. Hmmm... More thoughts to ponder. I know the 8mm Mauser loads I was trying don't touch the rifling but they do touch the throat. Maybe I need to try and seat both of them back a bit and reduce the load a touch. I think it's 16gr of 2400 in the 8mm is crazy accurate with lubed lead and it was a shotgun pattern with KK and PC both.
10-08-2013, 03:30 PM
bstone5

Powder coated cast lead bullets for pistol shoot are somewhat better with the addition of a gas check. I use the gas checks made form cola can material on plain bevel base cast bullets.
The gas check is not required on the PC bullets as far a keeping lead out of the barrel but the accuracy increase with the cola can gas check.
With the cola can addition to the PC bullets, the barrel is kept very clean after many shots.
I have shot 44 mag bullets at jacket pressures with the cola can gas check. A hard alloy is required when pushing at high velocity in the 44 mag.
10-08-2013, 03:32 PM
fastglock

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangerjim

Are you seeing any deterioration or degradation of the coating with the JPW or LLA on there for a period of time? How long are you letting them sit B4 loading & shooting.

I have not tried any experiments on the long-term reactions of the solvent in lube on PC yet. Brings us to yet another subject!!!!

Inquiring minds need to know.

Banger

I have about 50rds of the LEE 230 lubed with Alox that's been sitting for nearly a month now.I haven't taken a close look but when I get home ill check and post some pics. Good question BTW because the Alox deteriorated the high heat paint and the VHT epoxy that I experimented with.
10-08-2013, 03:48 PM
fastglock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I'm being very stubborn here but I refuse to add lube to these. The whole point of me even trying this was to eliminate the lube. All of mine are sized through Lee dies and with the exception of some Klass Kote that I tried to dust with graphite they all size down with no more effort than normal. I hate Hate HATE lube building up in the dies. If I put 45/45/10 on thin enough to only get minimal build up then they lead the bore and if I put it on thick enough then I get skuzz in the dies...

Although... I wonder if the missing weight of the lube in the back half is unbalancing the boolit...? Hmm....

Fastglock - If you are getting residue from your PC'ed boolits then I'm not sure what to think. I went to the point of soaking barrels in acetone to see if I could swab any epoxy paint or powder coating from the rifling and got nothing. I figured if either of them would get build up then it would be the epoxy as I don't think it cures as hard as PC does after baking.

Im getting some residue and sometimes I don't , and this is with my pistols piglet method. For sure it's my crappy consistency while tumbling and/or heat temp along with bake time. My rifle boolits gets the electrostatic treatment , I feel more of a guarantee adhesion and consistency. I just need practical accuracy for my pistols and I'm good to go.
10-08-2013, 04:12 PM
fastglock

Forgot to add. ...

My benefit for pistol no more messy tumbling with Alox, less smoke, and especially increasing the boolit diameter for my Lee 9mm TL.

For rifle, no more lead in the BCG and barrel. And to increase the diameter of the LEE 309-230
10-08-2013, 05:50 PM
popper

My 336 is only 5 yrs old, the RD T/L design had to be seated >0.050 deeper to even chamber. The Marlin version I seat ~ 0.010 deeper(than the crimp ) to give tolerance on the PC.
10-08-2013, 06:06 PM
Freightman

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

My 336 is only 5 yrs old, the RD T/L design had to be seated >0.050 deeper to even chamber. The Marlin version I seat ~ 0.010 deeper(than the crimp ) to give tolerance on the PC.

Popper try this i was having the same problem so I had some 1500 Degree paint took a small brush and painted the nose section of the mold, let it cure for 24 hrs and it reduced the diameter of the nose enough to seat properly.
10-08-2013, 06:24 PM
HNSB

I'm very curious about this as well.
I very nearly spent some money on a powder gun today, but I really want to see if anyone is having good success with a rifle.
10-08-2013, 06:33 PM
StratsMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freightman

Popper try this i was having the same problem so I had some 1500 Degree paint took a small brush and painted the nose section of the mold, let it cure for 24 hrs and it reduced the diameter of the nose enough to seat properly.

Simple little hints like this, are Golden Nuggets to me... I may never need to do this, but if I have a problem (or an oversize mold) then I'll remember this simple trick....
10-08-2013, 10:16 PM
fastglock

Here's some ES PC'd boolits with Alox that has been applied only on the lube grooves, nearly a month ago.It's all good. No corrosive reaction. Don't mind all the lint, this batch been sitting under some hanging rags.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...ps29c2c39f.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4d68a82f.jpg

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3e77e1e1.jpg
10-09-2013, 07:02 AM
Maximumbob54

I never had any doubt as to lube breaking down the PC finish. It's hard to remove PC with even an epoxy rated paint stripper. Usually you have to either grind or blast the coating off.