lf recommendations for no optics world

for learning purposes only, assuming a world where no scopes or red dots existed...

what open sight system would you recommend I put on my AR platform with pica-tinny rails?

is putting a dab of white-out on my front sight post the best option given the standard peep sight with black front sight post?

I'm looking for a way to put open sights on an AR platform that I can pick up easily.

Are fiber optics the way to go? Trijicon cancer glowies? Something from the Fallout universe?

I have no experience with these things under pressure. I have read of wondrous things but I would like to hear hands on review. Especially from those who have shot competition on 2-way live-fire ranges.

please and thank you, masters

(application is CQB)

https://www.amazon.com/Artecho-Glow-...094QHDY3G&th=1

PrestoColumbus

what open sight system would you recommend I put on my AR platform with pica-tinny rails?

There are numerous add on aperture rear sight and front sights available that emulate the original military sights. That gives a time proven sight picture for most all applications.

is putting a dab of white-out on my front sight post the best option given the standard peep sight with black front sight post?

I'm looking for a way to put open sights on an AR platform that I can pick up easily.

Refer to my first answer.

Are fiber optics the way to go? Trijicon cancer glowies? Something from the Fallout universe?

No, refer to my first answer.

I have no experience with these things under pressure. I have read of wondrous things but I would like to hear hands on review. Especially from those who have shot competition on 2-way live-fire ranges.

Refer to my first answer which is based on the results of much usage in "under pressure" situations i.e., combat. I have used that sight picture (the original one on M1s, M1 carbines, M14s and M16s) in training, in practice, for hunting and in combat. There is none better, nor faster nor more accurate. I still use those sights.

please and thank you, masters

Not a master, just experienced.

I'm a big fan of GI style aperture sights for accuracy.

For moving targets, I gravitate to an open rear leaf.

Larry has some very good advice up there.
The Brits proved it with WW1 rifles. Our Model 1917 was well used. M1 Garand and all rifles followed well used and simple.

excellent thank you for the replies

the world is a-changin. i’m trying to keep up


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I have seen recently that some are milling the top half off their Aperture Sights to make an Open Sight. I see no purpose in doing this.

If aperture sights were not the best option out there, then why does every Current Battle Rifle being made in the world have them as the Primary Sighting System?

I have open sights on my Combat Shotgun Barrels. The reason for this is that the barrels on shotguns are easily removable and/or loose fitting in the receiver, as such they don't go back into the same position after every shot. Hence the rear sight needs to be on the barrel so it stays aligned. Open sights just work better in this application.

Rifle Sights are mandatory on Combat Shotguns!!! Also note the Green Fiber Optic Front Sight, this is the fastest Front Sight to pick up there is..

All my Carbines have Aperture Sights as the primary sight system. Shotguns get Open Sights. It is not a bad idea to know how to operate both types?

Randy

A little dab of white paint on the front sight does make a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Froogal

A little dab of white paint on the front sight does make a difference.

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I believe that's the Carlos Hathcock mod :smile:

Lyman 57 for most bolt guns.

the old aperture and front sight post. the one thing that the government got right on the m16a2.

https://www.bevfitchett.us/m16a1-m16...hip/m-nkf.html

or quoting wiki, which i don't do that often,

"The standard pre-M16A2 "Daylight Sight System" uses an AR-15-style L-type flip, two aperture rear sight featuring two combat settings: short-range 0 to 300 m (0 to 328 yd) and long-range 300 to 400 m (328 to 437 yd), marked 'L'[105] The rear sight features a windage drum that can be adjusted during zeroing with about 1 MOA increments. The front sight is a tapered round post of approximately 0.0625 in (1.59 mm) diameter adjustable during zeroing in about 1 MOA increments. A cartridge or tool is required to (re)zero the sight line.[106][104][107]

An alternative pre-M16A2 "Low Light Level Sight System", includes a front sight post with a weak light source provided by tritium radioluminescence in an embedded small glass vial and a two aperture rear sight consisting of a 2 mm (0.079 in) diameter aperture marked 'L' intended for normal use out to 460 m (503 yd) and a 7 mm (0.276 in) diameter large aperture for night firing.[108] Regulation stipulates the radioluminescant front sight post must be replaced if more than 144 months (12 years) elapsed after manufacture.[109] The "Low Light Level Sight System" elevation and windage adjustment increments are somewhat coarser compared to the "Daylight Sight System".[107]

With the advent of the M16A2, a less simple fully adjustable rear sight was added, allowing the rear sight to be dialed in with an elevation wheel for specific range settings between 300 and 800 m (328 and 875 yd) in 100 m increments and to allow windage adjustments with a windage knob without the need of a cartridge or tool. The unmarked approximately 0.070 in (1.78 mm) diameter aperture rear sight is for normal firing situations, zeroing and with the elevation knob for target distances up to 800 meters. The downsides of relatively small rear sight apertures are less light transmission through the aperture and a reduced field of view. A new larger approximately 0.200 in (5.08 mm) diameter aperture, marked '0-2' and featuring a windage setting index mark, offers a larger field of view during battle conditions and is used as a ghost ring for quick target engagement and during limited visibility. When flipped down, the engraved windage mark on top of the '0-2' aperture ring shows the dialed in windage setting on a windage scale at the rear of the rear sight assembly. When the normal use rear aperture sight is zeroed at 300 m with SS109/M855 ammunition, first used in the M16A2, the '0-2' rear sight will be zeroed for 200 m. The front sight post was widened to approximately 0.075 in (1.91 mm) diameter and became square and became adjustable during zeroing in about 1.2 MOA increments."

I like the aperture sight as well. I was taught to use them by my Father, an old WW2 DI. I think a nice addition is the Merit Adjustable Aperture. Merit is in business again and has a set for the AR platform.

I put apertures front and rear-- they don't have to be small. The eye naturally centers in circles. Its a scope without glass.

Learn to use an aperture sight. Do not look at the rear look thru it. Concentrate on the front. If you are trying to center the front sight in the rear you are wrong!!!

Aperture sights are as fast or faster for one who uses them correctly. Cutting the top of one of is for an Idiot who does not know how to use one.

Get a course on rifle training. There is no fixing a non problem IMHO

There are two elements to getting a good sight picture: the correct focal point, and a big depth of field. For a rifle, you get a good depth of field by using an aperture which is smaller than the pupil of your eye, which is about 1/8". Starting with the Buffington sight, used on Trapdoors, the aperture the US Military has used is about 0.070" in diameter. This is a compromise between improving Depth of Field, but still letting in enough light for various combat conditions, including dawn/dusk, and even night fighting. National Match shooters gravitate towards 0.040 - 0.042 because they shoot in good light.

Correct focal point is the optical average between focusing on the front sight and focusing on the target. Easy to achieve when you are young, as you pass about 40, you need to add around +0.50 diopters to clear up the front sight, without blurring the target too much.

Open, or V-notch sights, do nothing to help your shooting vision, and are miserable for any accuracy or target work, though they do have the advantage of a huge field of view, so are good for close/fast moving targets, like you would be shooting at with a shotgun.

Militaries of the world figured this out quite a while ago. The modern world got caught up in scopes and optics and forgot.

The aperture- peep sight- system with a fine, flat top square post front sight of a specific width, paired with a rugged but adjustable peep rear. Simple, reliable, precise, fast, compact, lightweight, not dependent on batteries, and with the right training can be effective to several hundred yards.

The M-16 A2 sights are pretty much this, though i do not know if they are still teaching ragefnding with the front sight.
The M-14 system is what i think of as the gold standard, a rifle system designed by riflemen.