Printable View
I haven't found much solid info on what wad to use with a .58 cal RB in a 20ga. I just ordered a Lee mold to cast up my own.
I'm using Cheddite straight walled hulls (new).
Also, if the RB is in a wad, do I need to be concerned with what kind of lead I use? I have some soft, some WW, and some WW with a bit of lino.
Thanks for any info.
Likely the most common will be the B&P Z2M-20 20 gauge wad. It is sold by Ballistic Products as the Trap Commander, and also sold by Precision Reloading as the International Supersonic. A lot of people like these wads, but I'm not one of them. At first glance they seem good for slugs since their petals are very straight, vs most American wads being generously tapered. The problems I have with this wad are #1, the petals are very flimsy. They bunch up or break off too easily. Along with that, they come in the bag with the petals still semi-attached together, think like a perforation. I've tried them as-is with poor results. So then you have to take every wad and separate the petals one-by-one. Lastly they have a lot of shot cup below the petals. This is a non issue with your round balls, but if you were ever to try the Lee Minnie ball, they need some extra work.
The classic good slug wads like the Federal 20S1, Winchester AA20, and Remington RPX20 are all discontinued.
Claybuster makes a very good WAA20 wad clone. The ones I have work really good with slugs, and would be a top choice with a .575" round ball. Claybuster does have a tendency to add ribs inside their wad shot cups for some reason. My Claybuster CB1078-20 wads do not, they are smooth inside. It is possible they are different now.
Downrange generally makes smooth wads, although some have ribs. The problem with these is they tend to be thinner than most wads. If you call they will send you samples of all their 20 gauge wads. I did this with 12 gauge, and I was able to find one of their wads that was not only adequate, it might be the perfect wad.
It's all trial and error since 20 gauge bores can vary a ton in size. I'd try that B&P wad, Claybuster (they give out samples too), and ask for samples of the two Downrange 20 gauge wads. If the 20 gauge version of the Versalite is anything like the 12 gauge, I'd definitely try that one.
Trap Commander from BPI, especially for straight wall hulls.
I'm new to this site but, not new to loading and using slugs. I don't have much info on cheddite hulls. In the last few weeks I have been tinkering with .575 round balls (.281 grain) in AA hulls with AA-20 wads. 28.0 grains of bluedot with a win 209 primer. This load has been very consistent producing 2 to 3 inch groups @50 yds. You need to remove 3/8" off the petals for a good crimp and use two .125 cards or corks in the bottom of the cup.
Thanks for all the info folks. I will look around and see what is actually in stock. My recent reloading efforts are mostly a response to their being nothing on the shelves at the store! I have a good supply of new primed Cheddite hulls, and a .575 mold supposed to arrive today. I also dug up some 5/8oz 20ga load data I was hoping to use as a starting point.
+1 for the Trap Commander, it's a good one!
Marking this so I can refer to it later.
I also use the Claybusters WAA replacement, but accuracy went to horrible till I put a 28 gauge .125 nitro card under the ball
I heard that was a common fix, that the wads will actually conform around the ball if you don't put it on a stiff base of some kind. I have some hole cutters and some stiff card stock I was planning to use to give it some support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer in NH
Yes, the 28 ga. 1/8" nitro card is essential to maintain the wad structurally. Without it, as said, the base if the shot cup will conform to the shape of the ball, destroying accuracy.
Attachment 303281Attachment 303282Attachment 303283
Note that you can us multiple cards to adjust your stack height and may also want to use one to strengthen the gas seal cup.
I was curious about that--it's ok to use one in the gas seal cup? Do you find it beneficial? Most of my reloading has been with fiber wads and symmetric gas seals, and in that case it didn't seam to make sense. The bottom of the gas seal pushed into the bottom of the fiber wad. I suppose it couldn't hurt. It's behind the projectile, so worst case is it doesn't do anything at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by centershot
I just now read this more carefully--I just realized that they slugs were permanently bonded to the slugs. I actually thought about that, to see if it would help some 1oz Lee slugs fly straight. I'm curious how well it works--you've recovered them and they actually hold together down range? I know some of those Russian slugs used a wood screw looking thing to connect them. It's an interesting idea.
I have not recovered them but my accuracy improved in the rifled barrel (M-500) I was using. It didn't seem to help in the smoothbore (M-37) but that Ithaca shot anything I fed it into 2.5 - 3" groups at 50 yards. Strengthening the gas seal in the rifled bore did help. I also got better groups when the ball was glued into the TC wad (I used super-glue) as a non-discarding sabot. If you are shooting these "sabot" rounds through a rifled bore, without gluing the balls in solid, you need to load them tight. The ball will slip in the wad if the rifling isn't squeezing the Bejeezers out of it! I loaded them about 0.010" over bore diameter to achieve this. I used paper "patches, wrapped around the circumference of the ball. Nothing good happened in a rifled bore until I did this. Gluing them in, I didn't need the patches, but you don't want a sloppy fit. Slug your bore to be sure where you need to be.
I got some C1078-20 wads for use with my .575 RB. When I place the ball in the wad, the petals flare out significantly. I tried lifting the ball up to near the end of the petals, and it's a very tight fit in the bore. I have a section of 20ga barrel that was cut off and discarded, so I'm trying it in the open bore section. It looks like the petals on this wad are just too thick. I'm not sure how tight it needs to be, but I read a few reports that you should be able to push it through with a cleaning rod.Quote:
Originally Posted by megasupermagnum
I have not tried .010 over bore May give that whirl some day. I think .007 is as big as I have tried....
Do they have ribs in them? They don't flare out much on mine. There was only one guy I ever heard make the claim that a slug should be a slip fit in a bore. That guy is now banned for good reason. How tight it needs to be does not have a clear definition. I'm assuming you are dealing with a smooth bore. In that case they will always fit looser than a rifled barrel. For what it is worth, every single slug that I can say is accurate for me is too tight to push through easily with a cleaning rod. I do not believe anything meaningful can be gained by pushing a slug through your bore by hand. You are going to want some nitro cards in the bottom of the wad anyway, so your ball will sit near the top of the wad where the petals are thinner. When it comes to getting the best accuracy with wad slugs, the best description I can give is you want the tightest fit you can get, right up until the wad petals fail. Once the petals tear, accuracy goes out the window. Unfortunately this isn't something you can deal with in .001", wad slugs are much more dynamic than that. When you fire, that ball is going to somewhat flatten out inside the shell and increase its diameter. The fit of the wad isn't that important in this case. It will be what it is going to be regardless once it is fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by John in WI
If you aren't all that concerned with accuracy, then no need to worry. Just load those up in the claybuster wads with lighter loads, and they will be acceptable for hunting to maybe 40 yards.
MSM brings up some good points. Those of us who have found a good slug or ball load that works well for us did so by trial and error. I wish I could tell you
"Here is THE load, go shoot it, it'll group 2" at 50 yards for you!"
No one can do that, with any guarantee, but we can make recommendations and get you pointed in the right direction. A "tight fit" is, to me, a prime consideration, smooth bore or rifled. A nitro card (or two) in the bottom of the shot cup is also, IMO, absolutely necessary. Using a plastic wad, AA, 12S3, Windjammer, etc., is a compromise. It was never intended for our purpose. it is not structurally strong enough, nor was it made with any particular precision. We use it as a sabot, it is NOT a sabot, it is a meager substitute. And even with all the mods we make to get that ball/slug to the target accurately, it usually fails above 1300 fps. Really, that's not a bit problem, a 1 oz. chunk of lead @ 1300 fps is a killing machine. There's a couple million dead buffalo that could attest to that.
The key, IMO, is getting the wad out of the barrel with a minimum of distortion and damage. After a couple years of experimentation I found that a 3 to 3-1/4 dram equivalent trap load would do this. I chose the Federal 12s3 wad because I found, by experimentation, it to be a tough wad that would hold up. Occasionally it does shear a petal, but the balls shoot into a jagged 2" hole @ 50 yards.
My 20 gauge M500 with the rifled barrel wasn't quite as accurate, giving me 3" groups with the TC wad and a .575 ball. One NC in the cup, one in the gas seal, and a paper "patch around the ball to make it tight in the rifling. These wads did not shear petals.
So, experiment, that's the name of the game. Slug your bore if you can, if not, add a paper shim and measure it with your mike to see where you're at. Load 'em up and go shoot, see what you got!