New Brass and Nickel brass 45-70 BPCR

Please be gentle, as I am very new to Black powder and BPCR shooting.

All my brass is new brass, both nickel, and brass. Step 1 is to full-length size, step 2 inside expander and chamfer, step 3 prime, step 4 powder, wad, and compress, step 5 try and insert bullet and see if it will chamber. Cowboy bullet seater distorts bullet face so I try and insert with hands. Then repeat steps 2 and 5 and then swear and go back into my house. I do NOT have an annealing machine. Any suggestions?

Also, how do I measure and calculate the wad depth for given bullets?

Thanks,

Ok this may seem a bit long winded and a little complicated, but when you work through all of this it will make sense and be very understandable.
First thing you want to do is find your shortest case after they all have been sized. Then trim all your brass to that length, unless its is a really odd case and really really short, if thats the case just set it aside. Once they are all sized, trimmed and chamfered measure a case and set that number aside as you will need it later.Now take a bullet that you will use and measure the length of the bullet. Write that down next to your case length measurement. Save that. Now set a bullet in a case and partially seat it. Try it in your rifle, slowly increase the seating depth till it will just chamber. Now seat it just a wee bit more, that will give you a bit of clearance in the throat. Measure the overall length of that loaded round. Write that down. Now here is the slightly confusing part. Take your overall measurement, subtract the case length, now subtract the bullet length. This will give you a negative number. This is the depth from the case mouth to the top of your over powder wad.
Start your load development with just a little compression on the powder. The best way is to use a separate die or plug to compress the powder. You never want to use the bullet to compress anything more than about .001 to .002", that is just enough to make sure everything is in contact, the wad with the powder and the bullet with the wad. Now your ammo should chamber and shoot. From there all you need to change is the powder charge. The amount you compress will change as you add powder. You will need to run this formula with each different bullet you use. Write the numbers down and keep them in your load book.
Personally I use a separate compression die, Its a die body I think I got from Buffalo Arms and the compression stems screw into the top of the die. Once I have the compression stem set to the right depth, I measure the over all length of the die with the stem set and keep that info with the load data. That way I can reset things for different bullets and the numbers are repeatable.
Hope this helps you out. I know its a bit to chew on but once you step your way through it, it will all make sense.
SAm

One way to do it is to sacrifice a case.
Take A case and with a dremil tool and 1/32 cut off blade cut a slit on center line then cut a square out 3/8" down from the case mouth 3/8" wide and 1/2" long. You may have to adjust tension on the case by bending the tab slightly.

Insert your desired bullet into the case leaving it long. chamber and carefully remove. Measure from base of bullet to case mouth. This is how deep you need to comptrss tje wad to. touching the lands. If you want some off the lands add that number to the measurement.

Using standard off the shelf dies you need a fitted expander that matches your bullet with the case spring back taken into account. Easier is to use a bushing die and size right to where you need to be at. Hand seated ammo works well in single shots but repeaters need some neck tension to maintain bullet depth.The otheris with hand seated ammo if you unload a round with out firing it you may leave a bullet in the throat.

another way is to subtract bullet length from overall length the result is how deep the base is in the case

I’m assuming a single shot. Do it in two steps. Load and fire form, not paying attention to OAL. Use cull bullets if you want. Once fire formed, there’s no need to full length size if they’re going to be used in the same rifle. Now you can determine your OAL. Compress powder, thumb seat see if will chamber. Compress a bit more and repeat until your bullet is just touching or 1/10” off rifling. I’d tend to be on the 1/10th side as fouling will interfere with chambering if too tight of a tolerance. Exception is if you have a bore riding bullet.

About trimming cases: make sure you don’t have any Hornady brass mixed in with your brass. If you happen to find a Hornady brass in the bunch DO NOT SET YOUR TRIMMER TO THAT LENGTH. Hornady brass is made shorter than any other brand on purpose. A LOT SHORTER. It’s proprietary for their cartridges loaded with plastic tipped bullets so they’ll feed through lever guns.

What size is your expander?
Brass does have some springback, have you measured the expanded case?
What size are your boolits?

Also, your seater needs to be modified to prevent bullet deformation. The seater can be modified with epoxy or hat melt glue to match the bullet. If you want to use different bullet shapes then you possibly need to get a separate seater stem for each bullet nose profile.

The modification involves using a bullet treated with a release agent so the epoxy or glue will release from the bullet but stick to the seating stem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nuclearcricket

Ok this may seem a bit long winded and a little complicated, but when you work through all of this it will make sense and be very understandable.
First thing you want to do is find your shortest case after they all have been sized. Then trim all your brass to that length, unless its is a really odd case and really really short, if thats the case just set it aside. Once they are all sized, trimmed and chamfered measure a case and set that number aside as you will need it later.Now take a bullet that you will use and measure the length of the bullet. Write that down next to your case length measurement. Save that. Now set a bullet in a case and partially seat it. Try it in your rifle, slowly increase the seating depth till it will just chamber. Now seat it just a wee bit more, that will give you a bit of clearance in the throat. Measure the overall length of that loaded round. Write that down. Now here is the slightly confusing part. Take your overall measurement, subtract the case length, now subtract the bullet length. This will give you a negative number. This is the depth from the case mouth to the top of your over powder wad.
Start your load development with just a little compression on the powder. The best way is to use a separate die or plug to compress the powder. You never want to use the bullet to compress anything more than about .001 to .002", that is just enough to make sure everything is in contact, the wad with the powder and the bullet with the wad. Now your ammo should chamber and shoot. From there all you need to change is the powder charge. The amount you compress will change as you add powder. You will need to run this formula with each different bullet you use. Write the numbers down and keep them in your load book.
Personally I use a separate compression die, Its a die body I think I got from Buffalo Arms and the compression stems screw into the top of the die. Once I have the compression stem set to the right depth, I measure the over all length of the die with the stem set and keep that info with the load data. That way I can reset things for different bullets and the numbers are repeatable.
Hope this helps you out. I know its a bit to chew on but once you step your way through it, it will all make sense.
SAm

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Shooting Shiloh Sharps 1874 in 45-70 WOW, some great information here. I am printing it and will add it to my reloading binder.

Thank you I found this out and have ordered a larger expander from Buffalo Arms. My expander is .458 and I ordered their 459-460

Good tip, thanks!

Thanks to all for the great advice!