500gr loads for a winchester 1886 by miroku 45-70

Hi all,
Ive been lurking as a guest on here for years, and finally registered. So my question is about a 500gr boolit in a 45-70. I just picked up a miroku reproduction winchester 1886. Its the superlight model and it gorgeous. Ive also ordered an Accurate mold set to drop 405gr and 500gr boolits. The designs are 460-405A and 460-500A dropping at .459 and sized down to .4585. The lyman manual only lists loads for the 405gr. Does anyone have any loads for 500gr? I have 3031, 4227, and 4859 among other powders. Much appreciate the help

I have 2 loads for my 457125 Lyman bullet. A mild 31 grs of H4198, and a stout 37 grs of H4198.

I got these loads from the Lyman cast bullet manual. Not sure if the stout load is too much for that rifle or not.


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my win 1886 wont feed anything over 405. the chambers on the mirokus are supossedly really short

It is the Feed carrier,etc in an '86 Win that will not allow running the 500 grain bullet ammo thru the magazine.
But, back in the day, no less than Elmer Keith hunted Elk "in the black timber" with an '86 Win: One 500 grain
loaded directly into the chamber and 400 grain loads in the magazine.
He said he could , if necessary do a "texas heart shot" at a jumped bull Elk and that 500 grain bullet would shoot
thru the bull lengthwise and out the chest.
Same deal for bear. Great penetration with that 500
beltfed/arnie

The leade on the Miroku rifles in 45-70 are cut to original SAAMI specs....there is no leade to speak of. I had Turnbull recharger both my 1886 and 1885 to their custom specs. They added almost .250” to the leade and both guns would chamber anything. Prior to doing that they would not chamber any bullet with a blunt ogive. After doing that both guns would shoot an honest 1moa for five shots at 114 yards (my private range backstop to my deck railing). Miroku’s accuracy is second to none.

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Originally Posted by NSB

The leade on the Miroku rifles in 45-70 are cut to original SAAMI specs....there is no leade to speak of. I had Turnbull recharger both my 1886 and 1885 to their custom specs. They added almost .250” to the leade and both guns would chamber anything. Prior to doing that they would not chamber any bullet with a blunt ogive. After doing that both guns would shoot an honest 1moa for five shots at 114 yards (my private range backstop to my deck railing). Miroku’s accuracy is second to none.

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Thank you for the advice, im thinking of having the chamber reamed, did you send the complete rifle to turnbulls in NY? If so, are FFL transfers required?

I thought i would never be able to afford a winchester, even a repro. Id set my mind on a henry when i got lucky with a buy it now on gunbroker. This miroku is beautiful with great fit and finish. Im wondering if it could use checkering though?

I got lucky, my 1886 win even came with lyman 66 peep sights, both apertures, for hunting and target shooting

Damtree,
Again, It is not a question of the chamber that is a problem with '86 Win rifles and 500 grain bullet cartridges.
You should NOT have to have the chamber reamed for the 500 gr loads.
The 500 grain bullets have a long Ogive/nose, which is smaller diameter than the lands in your barrel. So,
the 500 gr cartridge will drop fully into the chamber.
BUT, with the long nose/ogive, the round will be too long for the carrier that brings a cartridge up from the magazine into line with
the chamber as the lever is moved down and forward. That long nose will hang up in the end of the magazine tube.
I can tell you this re, my Original Win 86 lightweight rifle. You will find the 500 grain loads rather uncomfortable to shoot
if they are "full" power hunting loads.
I have found that my cast handloads of a 385 grain bullet clocking 1740fps are a Good Plenty to shoot in my '86 half mag lightweight.
But they really do the job , one shot one Kill for many large northwoods bucks I have shot.
Also, I, too have the Lyman 66 sight on my '86. Great for hunting or target shooting.
beltfed/arnie

I have a Browning 1886 that was also made by Miroku. It also has the short SAAMI spec 45/70 chamber. By using bore riding cast designs you can get around the issue without altering the throat. Mine cycles and feeds Lyman 462560 loaded to the crimp groove - that mould runs around 550gr checked and lubed.

I suspect a 300-330 gr bullet will be your most accurate. At least it is with originals. The twist rate may be different.

Another handy tool to have on hand is a Lee FCD.

Most rifle caliber leverguns have the same issue of no throat chambers. Another way to get around the issue is if your bullet fouls, seat it a little deeper until it clears, then crimp in place using the Lee FCD.

Try to avoid cast bullet designs that have a wide front drive band as they are almost guaranteed to foul in SAAMI spec chambers.

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Originally Posted by Damtree

Thank you for the advice, im thinking of having the chamber reamed, did you send the complete rifle to turnbulls in NY? If so, are FFL transfers required?

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I drove there, for me it’s a ninety minute ride. In order for you to send a gun to an FFL you don’t need to ship through an FFL. You can simply ship it yourself as long as it’s going to an FFL and coming back to you.

You can ship a rifle through the Post Office, UPS, or Fedex. UPS and Fedex has to be overnight $100+/-. Post Office is less. Must ship most guns to an FFL but you don't need one in most states.

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Originally Posted by Damtree

Thank you for the advice, im thinking of having the chamber reamed, did you send the complete rifle to turnbulls in NY?

If so, are FFL transfers required?

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US Federal Law (GCA-68) has a provision for non-FFL holders to send & receive back the same firearm to an FFL for repairs and/or customization.

The same law mandates that anyone who receives a firearm for any reason from someone out of state have an FFL - why all firearm makers, repairers & customizers have an FFL.

The only things you might have to worry about is a theft in transit, or a porch pirate.

To wit: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...aspdf/download

Firearms shipped to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence.

FFLs may also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received (18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A)).

An ATF Form 4473 is required for the return of the firearm, except in instances when a firearm is delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing, and the same firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received (27 CFR § 478.124(a)).

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Had an 1886 ages ago heaviest bullet I could get to feed was a Saeco 450 gr. Could get 9 rounds in the magazine.

For a 405 gr bullet I like the Accurate 46-405M. Tell Tom forward of the crimp groove must not exceed .456 as in the drawing. Bullet should drop behind the lube groove at .460 and you size to .459. OAL should be 2510; no more. This has worked great in three Browning 1886s and and my Marlin 1895 . I've tried a number of molds for these rifles and in my experience this combination is the winner. Of course each rifle is an individual none of this might suit you; but I doubt it. I like IMR 4759 and I've got a bunch of it still. AA 5744 is close.