No resistance when flairing case mouths

Hi, everyone! I'm new to the forum , and new to reloading as well. I bought some "once fired" 38spl brass to be able to get started loading my first rounds and the bag of cases I was sent were kind of a mixed bag. For one thing, some of the cases I was preparing, when it came to flairing the case mouth, seemed to offer no resistance to the die. I think many of the cases I was sent were fired more than the one time.

I was wondering, is this a sign of bad brass, or maybe that the case has no more life left? Thank you.

Could be a few things.
If the case is within tolerance for length, and isn't split- it doesn't matter how many times its been fired.

Does the boolit easily start to go in?
Is so, the case may not be sized enough to start with.

If it doesn't, the flare die may not be set down low enough. Or it could be the wrong one and is too small.
You don't need any more of a flare than it takes to get the boolit going down into the case without shaving the side of it.

Did you resize the cases first?

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Originally Posted by BMW Rider

Did you resize the cases first?

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That's important-- resize first. Also, the thickness of the brass varies with manufacturer. So, once they are all sized, some have a slightly smaller inside diameter. I have lots of brass that is thin enough to offer almost no resistance, and other stuff that gives lots of resistance. Just check the ones that seem to have little or no resistance to make sure they did not split. If they're not split you are good to go.

Howdy, welcome to the forum and to reloading.

Reloading mixed brass offers you a challenge as you don't have a consistent feel between brands. If you had all the same headstamped brass, you would feel a difference if anything was wrong. I would separate them my headstamp, and lets say you got 50 winchesters or federals or whatever, load them first, so that you get a feeling for how it all should feel. When you switch brands, it will feel different, but each brand will be all the same. That said, plenty of people load mixed brass, myself included, but I prefer to load all the same.

If you've resized the cases and you get an odd couple with little to no resistance when flaring, that is totally normal. Usually they will be remington (R-P) cases in my experience. The brass is thinner, and that means that the sizing die doesn't squeeze it down as much as some others. It can be an issue, if that means the case doesn't have sufficient neck tension.

However, if the inside of the case is .356 and you are using a .356 expander, and your bullets are .358, you are totally fine.

Ideally you want about .002 neck tension, though .001 is okay provided you have a decent crimp. Any more than .002 and you risk swaging the base of the bullet from the brass squeezing it too much.

All the people that replied above are right. Only thing I have to add is that back in the 1980's a gun magazine did an article on how many times a 38 special case could be reloaded before the case would fail. If I remember correctly they were able to reload, fire, and reload the same case 168 times before it developed a case mouth split. Unless there's some obvious defect with your brass it's most likely just fine.

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Originally Posted by WetPowder

Hi, everyone! I'm new to the forum , and new to reloading as well. I bought some "once fired" 38spl brass to be able to get started loading my first rounds and the bag of cases I was sent were kind of a mixed bag. For one thing, some of the cases I was preparing, when it came to flairing the case mouth, seemed to offer no resistance to the die. I think many of the cases I was sent were fired more than the one time.

I was wondering, is this a sign of bad brass, or maybe that the case has no more life left? Thank you.

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Brass work hardens so soft necks are a good sign. For 38 Special general shooting the signs of bad brass are loose primer pockets or neck splits. For SD carry or national level competition you need to be more selective. I have some 45 Colt brass from the 70's that has well over 50 shots per brass.

Oddly... I had just that with 2 30-30 cases just last nite... My plan, since I set those 2 aside, is to get a Group going then insert those 2... Just to see if it has an effect. Hopefully chrono-ed as well...
Edit; Just double checked...the Necks are measurably thinner... yet boolit tension seems sufficient...
Edit again; I use an M die exclusively for All Callibers, and for these, the die is set to just "cover" the gas check after flaring... the suspected "pair" also only allow the boolit to enter to cover the gas check (by hand) so...My suspicion is...Fagetaboutit!!!

All most all sizing dies size small and the belling die expander open up to size from the inside, This negates the wall thickness variations. But this does give a different feel to some brass. Another that can change the feel is variations in case length. Loading mixed brass it could be one or both of these.

Measure a handful or two of the brass for length to see what the variation in length is.

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Originally Posted by country gent

All most all sizing dies size small and the belling die expander open up to size from the inside, This negates the wall thickness variations. But this does give a different feel to some brass. Another that can change the feel is variations in case length. Loading mixed brass it could be one or both of these.

Measure a handful or two of the brass for length to see what the variation in length is.

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I do Not see how thickness could be negated...sorry. Size the outside...the inside size will vary depending on Thickness... then Expand ... theoretically the outside will now be the same on All....If (big Word) If the thickness is the same.. If Not same thickness... now, the outside will be different... For either, or Both dimensions to be same... thickness Must be Same...
Length will make a Difference...especially with an M die... but, Only at the very Mouth

Thanks for all the replies, guys! The more info I have the better off I'll be.

I did resize them all, and they are different head stamps. Some do say R-P, and at least one of the cases in question had that stamp, but many of the cases say Western, and a few of the ones in question had that stamp.

I measured them all after resizing, and there are minor variations in length in the batch I'm working with, but nothing too long or too short.

I resized them again and reset the flaring die so a Hornady Frontier lead swaged bullet will seat without shaving.

Everything else seems fine. Just that no resistance thing caught me by surprise. May e they're just a little thinner as some have said. Maybe some companies have more variation in thickness than than I would have thought.

I'll keep you guys updated on how they turn out and how they shoot.

Thanks again!

In 38 Special, one often encounters wad cutter brass that has thinner walls to allow space for the deep-seated bullet. These cases often have a cannelure about half way down the case where the bottom of the bullet would be located.

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Originally Posted by Fast Asleep

In 38 Special, one often encounters wad cutter brass that has thinner walls to allow space for the deep-seated bullet. These cases often have a cannelure about half way down the case where the bottom of the bullet would be located.

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Well Darn...I knew that also... but, last ones I loaded (Wadcutter Brass) had decent "feel" into my M die.. I even used my Largest Size Die!!!

Even after polishing or cleaning you can see the wad cutter bottom ring. however with new brass of unknown quality and # of times fired, you may want to uniform the brass at least for length so your settings on dies produce uniform results.

You would also be surprised with even new brass in the same box how the lengths and wall thickness varies along with the harness.

I'm in the sorting brass into shooting lots (50 for pistol/20 for rifle) camp. I do trim to the Spec length (yes the horror... trimming pistol brass) to maintain a consistent length on straight wall brass, this pays off downstream when it comes to crimping the bullet with either a roll or modified crimp. For tapered brass I try to just keep the brass OAL about the same if they are not from the original box.

Range pickup/bulk brass gives you the opportunity to mix and match to get your brass consolidated by headstamp and all the other tasks and touches like trimming, cleaning the flash hole and so on to get your suitable shooting lots. I'm with Rapier look for the wadcutter markings on the brass (there's a post around here somewhere on the topic) those should be set aside and coveted for what they are.

Brass sorting/prep for me is just as enjoyable as casting and loading and only has to be done once in the life of the brass. We take great care in measuring bullet dimensions, powder charges overall length and so on, brass prep should be no different.

Thickness is one problem, case length is the other. Your expander doesn't hit each case the same. Some get over flared, others, under. I use a single stage press, set it so it never goes to the stop and I can 'feel' the flare. When I charge with powder, my fingers usually catch any 'unflared' which get re-flared'.

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Originally Posted by WetPowder

Thanks for all the replies, guys! The more info I have the better off I'll be.

I did resize them all, and they are different head stamps. Some do say R-P, and at least one of the cases in question had that stamp, but many of the cases say Western, and a few of the ones in question had that stamp.

I measured them all after resizing, and there are minor variations in length in the batch I'm working with, but nothing too long or too short.

I resized them again and reset the flaring die so a Hornady Frontier lead swaged bullet will seat without shaving.

Everything else seems fine. Just that no resistance thing caught me by surprise. May e they're just a little thinner as some have said. Maybe some companies have more variation in thickness than than I would have thought.

I'll keep you guys updated on how they turn out and how they shoot.

Thanks again!

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Those western headstamps are pretty old, from the 50s and 60s I think. Still fine to load and shoot, but it tells you something. You're biggest issue with mixed brass like that will be the variation of case length. You will need to measure some and figure out the longest one, use that one to set your crimp. That way the shorter one will get a lesser crimp, but will still function. You cant do much more than about .010 in length variation that way before you get no crimp at all. .005 in length variation is okay though and if you can keep it in that, you will have no problems at all if you set your dies for the longest of that batch. This is if you use a traditional roll crimp dies. I trim my cases for this reason.

I did a case life test on 30-30 that may be of interest to you, https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...case+life+test

WetPowder: I have a big ol sack of range pick up 38 special that I use for practice and plinking in my 357 mag. The head stamps on that brass are as mixed and matched as a junkyard dog, but it doesn't seem to matter one bit. Unless you're eyeballing the trophy in a bullseye match, almost any brand of 38 special brass will shoot as well as any other. The only exception that I've found is Selliers and Bellot. S&B brass seems to be thicker than American brass, so it ends up with a smaller inside diameter when sized. It still works, but when you seat the bullet with this brass it expands the "neck", and the finished cartridge ends up with that hour glass kinda look. (It still shoots good though).

While I'm posting, there's another cast bullet trick that I'd like to mention. When you're reloading with jacketed bullets it's standard practice to set the seating die to seat and crimp in one operation. That's fine for jacketed bullets, but sometimes not so good for cast bullets. I've found that when I try to seat & crimp in one operation the mouth of the case shaves a small ring of lead off the bullet. If the bullet is powder coated this shaves some of the powder coating off with the little lead ring. I've found it to be much better to do seating and crimping as two separate operations when loading cast bullets.

First I put an empty case in the reloading press and turn in the seating die until I feel the die contact the mouth of the case. Then I back the die out 1/2 turn and set the lock ring. Next I seat all the bullets into the charged cases. Once that's done I back the seating stem in the die all the way out, then set the die to crimp the cases. I run all the cartridges back through the die to crimp them. This way there's no shaved lead, and every bullet is in perfect condition. I do this process with both pistol and rifle cartridges. Why go to this extra effort? Because nobody brags about shooting a lousy group or about the time they missed that easy shot.

I've had the same problem with 38 special brass that I found. When people leave revolver brass on the ground there is often a reason!

If I remember right, they were stamped W-W and looked like they would belong in a museum. Worst that will happen if your bullets don't hold in a revolver is you jam your gun. I checked bullet hold, and it was poor. I tossed them.

I've also had this problem in old 45 ACP cases. Here, it's more important to pay attention.

A general suggestion if you use a single stage press. Pay attention to how hard the expander is to withdraw from the case. The force of inserting the expander may vary quite a bit. The force when withdrawing it is consistent, and it remains that way even if the case is already expanded. So if something felt off while you weren't paying attention, you can raise and lower the ram again to doublecheck.