300blk supersonic with the noe 311-195-rf-j1 and h110 load questions.

I’ll disclaim right now this load is not published for use but for my own education and that of others, from those more knowledgeable than I, if you use it then it is at your own risk, I will not be held liable for any accidental loss of life or limb.
I recently procured an 16” ar15 upper with a pistol length gas system and a strike industries adjustable gas block chambered in 300blk. After playing with jacketed and being unsatisfied with the pressure/velocity/energy/accuracy results at near max loadings with 150grainers I decided this was a perfect candidate for cast bullets. I started out with the lee 180gr round nose sized .309 and after playing with the alloy and lube, which started out as Felix lube and water quenched wheel weights from a previous project, has transitioned to carnauba red and 50/50 Linotype/wheel weights and a touch of tin air cooled. The end result was a load of 17.5grs h110 (note 18grs shows pressure signs) cci450 primer, full crimped at the groove and a bullet weighing 165-166grs checked and lubed going at a velocity of 2034fps into a .432” 3 shot group at 50yards. At 25 yards i expansion tested the bullet in 5 2.5gal agricultural chemical jugs filled with water. The bullet penetrated 4 and expanded to .41” and the retained mass was 97grs The only problem with this load for hog and deer depredation is the fact the bullet can’t be seated far enough out to fill the mag due to a tight throated chamber and so it jams now and again in the chamber at about 45 degrees. Now the criteria that I’m looking for is a 160-180gr bullet traveling at circa 2000fps, that is fairly accurate and with a moderate expansion and does not jam. I have since switched to the noe 311-195-rf-j1 made for the k31 and have begun pressure sign testing. Even though it weights 20grs more at 186actual then the 180lee, the max charge still appears to be 18grs at a velocity of 1987fps, based on primer dimple and ejector mark. The question I have is this; how close am I to a max charge or am I dangerously over the line? I have failed to date to find published cast load data on this particular cartridge and charge/bullet weight, but perusing my Lyman 5th addition cast hand book the the cast data shows max loads of similar cartridges with much less pressure than jacketed equivalents. Am I smoking the proverbial crack pipe in trying to get this kind of performance from this cartridge and bullet weight? It’s boggling my mind that a 150gr jacketed max charge is listed at 16.7gr h110 by Sierra’s online load data, and yet with each of these lead bullets being heavier by as much as 36grs I’ve pushed the envelope to the same charge of 18grs. I suspect part of the reason for being able to milk the noe is because of having roughly a 1/3 the bearing surface of the lee, but y’all may be able to shed more light on this assumption.

The longest post to say … I need a chronograph

Apologies for the long post I wanted to make sure all my bases are covered and variables were known. I have a chronograph and have been using it, what I don’t have is published load data on this weight class, or anything to test what kind of pressure I’m generating. And I fear a may be trying to push it too far too fast, hence me posing my questions to the venerable cast community.

Data for cast boolits is always an issue. For Blackout I use j-word data and read between the lines. I see you found the Sierra info. Good stuff and I also use https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/. Note that Hodgdon doesn't list supersonic data above 180gr for H110. Only subs. And Sierra tops out at 13.6gr of H110. IMHO, you are pushing too far, too fast.
You might revisit the Lee 180gr. Have you thought about nose sizing so you don't have to seat so deep? I had to resort to nose sizing a NOE 220gr. It's a PIA but the only way I can use that mold in my BO.

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Originally Posted by F_L

Data for cast boolits is always an issue. For Blackout I use j-word data and read between the lines. I see you found the Sierra info. Good stuff and I also use https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/. Note that Hodgdon doesn't list supersonic data above 180gr for H110. Only subs. And Sierra tops out at 13.6gr of H110. IMHO, you are pushing too far, too fast.
You might revisit the Lee 180gr. Have you thought about nose sizing so you don't have to seat so deep? I had to resort to nose sizing a NOE 220gr. It's a PIA but the only way I can use that mold in my BO.

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Well that’s what I’ve been trying to do is read between the lines and a whole lot of cross referencing of said lines, and I had come to the conclusion based off my tests with the lee180 that regardless of alloy weight difference ei 50/50 Lino/ww vs ww vs 25/1, that i was better off using the 150gr jacketed data for a rough comparison because they were based off my readings performance wise in velocity the same per charge weight with a slight edge to the cast the lighter the alloy went. I looked into the nose sizing but drew the conclusion off experiences with my Lyman 4500 that the pressure to size the nose would too badly deformed the bullet as a whole unless the alloy were too hard, in which case it would be outside my criteria anyways on expansion. I will point out that it’s 14.6gr h110 and not 13.6gr as the max charge for a 180gr jacketed, but those bullets also sit farther into the case then what I’m getting off the noe. As it stands the noe is seating shallower by a few thousandths then the lee180. Do you figure the 17.5 at 1904 is still too fast as well? That would put it at 20% over jacketed loading for the noe. The lee at166gr started showing slight pressures at 18gr h110 which is 20% over 165gr jacketed max of 15.7gr h110

For what it's worth, Lee 180gr, 18 gr H110/W296, seated 0.2" deep gives 50k psi. 0.3" gives 60k psi. Not compressed but way high. I don't go over 17.5 H110 for any weight.

Thank you mr popper that was much needed pressure data. It’s clear I’m way high on this powder. Now that I know that I’ve taken the measurements with the check in place and the lee180 is .43” deep seating at the crimp groove, the noe is about .37 if the lube groove is covered. Might I inquire what the actual weight was on the lee180 when you got those readings?

No, you aren’t going to get 2,000 FPS with H110 under a 190-200 grain boolit in 300 BLK. Published loads with jacketed are showing 500 FPS or more under that.

I never said 190-200gr bullet, I said a 160-180gr lead bullet circa 2000fps was my desired threshold, and as I stated I’ve hit the 2034fps threshold with a 180gr lee running 166grs, it has already been done, and mr popper has pointed out that I’m near max pressure with that loading which I’d figured based on what the 18gr was showing for pressure signs. What was perplexing me was the noe bullet wasn’t showing signs till 18gr either. 1900fps would qualify in my book as circa 2000, if it comes to it I can get that noe 195 down 162gr range with Linotype if I have to but not really preferable because it’ll powderize or go straigth through Unexpanded . I cast a bunch of 180 lees at 150 with Linotype and both molds are rated on nominal wheel weights which I’m not running on the noe.

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Originally Posted by imashooter2

No, you aren’t going to get 2,000 FPS with H110 under a 190-200 grain boolit in 300 BLK. Published loads with jacketed are showing 500 FPS or more under that.

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