Nose shapes and 1/20 alloy

Compadres,
I am hoping to use one of my 45-70s on an elk hunt this Fall. I cast Lyman grain 400 grain RNs with 20-1 alloy and they have shot well ahead of 5744 in a trapdoor carbine, a Lyman Commemorative Ruger #1 and a C. Sharps rifle. Given that my guns like 20-1, I plan to stick with it. I also have, for 45-70, a Lee 400 grain hollow point mold and a NOE 400 grain flat point on the way. Is there any advantage in killing power to either the flat point or the hollow point, given how soft the bullets are to start with? Or is the RN going to start to flatten out on the first 1/2 inch of elk hide?

On elk I would stick to the flatnosed solid to ensure through and through penetration.

I use the Mould # 457125 it drops a 535 gr for me. I have a C. Sharps and 2 Trapdoor rifles that shot better with the heavy bullet than the 400 gr. If I use my Marlin for hunting I hand load the first round with the 535 gr then have 6-10 405 gr RNFP rounds in the mag tube. I have done 2 trips to Alaska using my C.Sharps took a Moose using 535 gr and it went through the Moose. Took a black bear with one round from my Trapdoor it also passed through. Have several deer with the Trapdoor and the 405 RNFP bullet. Any of the 400 gr bullets should get the job done. Just remember bullet placement is the number one reason you lose an animal. Remember a .50 BMG through an ear won't kill. :bigsmyl2:

Warren
What alloy were you using on those pass through shots?
Thank you

My personal thoughts are go with what you are confident with. A 400 grain cast of 20-1 is going to go through a whole lot of elk.
I have not shot an elk with a 45-70.
But a run-away horse that refused to be caught gave a neighbor fits. It was jumping fences, running through fields and making a big mess all over the area. But as it can running down a hedge row towards the corner, horse failed to see the feller sitting on a 5 gallon gallon bucket with his 45-70 Navy Arms Roller loaded with a 425 FNPB 30-1 loaded with 63 grains of 2F Goex. At 70 some paces the trigger was squeezed. Slug smacked square in the chest where it was aimed. Horses running front legs collapsed and horse did a face plant. Kicked a couple times and then breathed out it's last breaths. Slug had exited the rear right upper ham.
Remember our Horse Soldiers carried carbines with 400 grain cast loads that did well shooting through horse and putting the other combatants on foot unless the rider's legs were also busted by passing slug.
500 grain cast went through millions of Bison. Probably would go through two.
Once you propel a 400 grain + slug at 1100+ FPS it takes a hole heap of meat to stop it. Ribs are little issue. Bust the shoulders and down critters go.
The 45-60 in the old 1876 Winchester or repros (we have both) with a 350 grain cast was well liked as an elk dropper.
So whatever slug you choose... shoot them a bunch. Get your "confidence" up and running and go out and fire up your great eating elk.

Now that's penetration !

Stick with the flat point. I've killed a fair amount of elk with them, and they work.

It's been a long time since I hunted with a 45-70, but with a 405 grain flat point it got the job done with one shot. That isn't saying much because I was after deer back then, and that slug would pass right through them. All I can say is that the flat point was effective.

A flat point with a decent meplat gets my vote hands down.

Stick with the flat points unless you want to completely reboot for pure lead, smokeless and paper patches.
And, said for heart felt responsibility, for shaken baby syndrome.
This is my brother's sub-MOA 1800FPS 500 grainer that makes me worry about him.

http://i.imgur.com/bVABJ9N.jpg

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Originally Posted by Good Cheer

Stick with the flat points unless you want to completely reboot for pure lead, smokeless and paper patches.
And, said for heart felt responsibility, for shaken baby syndrome.
This is my brother's sub-MOA 1800FPS 500 grainer that makes me worry about him.

http://i.imgur.com/bVABJ9N.jpg

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I made the mistake of shooting a deer with that profile bullet many years ago. Lung shot. Longest toughest tracking job ever. Don't kill worth a damn.

My brother's never go any where but the freezer.
Must be the effects of weight, velocity and pure lead.

If the 400 FN shoots well in the #1, that would be my choice of gun and bullet of those listed. It has a fastest lock time. Practice the reload.

I have shot many deer with a 400 grain fn over 67 grains 2f. I have yet to recover a bullet no matter the range. Troops shooting carbines only had 55 grains powder and the bullet still went through a horse and many times the Indian on the other side. Shot one deer with a 500 grain pointed bullet. Deer went 200 yards after a lung hit. Bullet was cast from coww and over 62 grains 2f. Range was 600 yards. Flat nose would be my first choice as long as rifle shoots it well.
Steve

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Originally Posted by waksupi

I made the mistake of shooting a deer with that profile bullet many years ago. Lung shot. Longest toughest tracking job ever. Don't kill worth a damn.

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Same here, although it was a 50 caliber plated bullet, designed to expand, but it did not. I'll shoot a deer with a field point arrow before I ever do that again.

I like the flat point for hunting also.

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Originally Posted by Good Cheer

My brother's never go any where but the freezer.
Must be the effects of weight, velocity and pure lead.

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Ross Seyfried wrote an article decades ago of the hard tracking job on a buck he has shot with a large caliber pointed lead boolit out of an original rifle, and that on snow. But his was probably an alloy as no paper patching comes to mind, and only plodding along at BP speeds. Pure lead and higher velocity should mushroom upon impact, as your Brother experiences.

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Originally Posted by warren5421

I use the Mould # 457125 it drops a 535 gr for me. I have a C. Sharps and 2 Trapdoor rifles that shot better with the heavy bullet than the 400 gr. If I use my Marlin for hunting I hand load the first round with the 535 gr then have 6-10 405 gr RNFP rounds in the mag tube. I have done 2 trips to Alaska using my C.Sharps took a Moose using 535 gr and it went through the Moose. Took a black bear with one round from my Trapdoor it also passed through. Have several deer with the Trapdoor and the 405 RNFP bullet. Any of the 400 gr bullets should get the job done. Just remember bullet placement is the number one reason you lose an animal. Remember a .50 BMG through an ear won't kill. :bigsmyl2:

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I am curious to know what alloy you are using as well to drop a 535 gr bullet [guessing pure lead]. My 457125 drops a 519-520 gr bullet at 20:1.A pure lead 457125 drops a 532 gr bullet for me.... I am toying with the idea of making some pure lead Postell 457132 and milling or filing a .2285 [50 % ] meplat for hunting

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Originally Posted by cedarhill

Compadres,
I am hoping to use one of my 45-70s on an elk hunt this Fall. I cast Lyman grain 400 grain RNs with 20-1 alloy and they have shot well ahead of 5744 in a trapdoor carbine, a Lyman Commemorative Ruger #1 and a C. Sharps rifle. Given that my guns like 20-1, I plan to stick with it. I also have, for 45-70, a Lee 400 grain hollow point mold and a NOE 400 grain flat point on the way. Is there any advantage in killing power to either the flat point or the hollow point, given how soft the bullets are to start with? Or is the RN going to start to flatten out on the first 1/2 inch of elk hide?

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I haven't had a crack at an elk with my Sharps as yet but last year a whitetail fell to a 519 gr 457125 of 20:1 and was a pass through. However it was less than 50 yds. I hit it high in the back and did surprisingly little meat damage as my meat cutting pal said I lost maybe 2 lbs. I have a 405 gr Lee hollow base mold that my pals tell me that it shoots real well for them and it has about a 50% meplat flat nose I'm thinking would be a great deer bullet. I have to try making some again as when I first started casting aluminum molds were somewhat challenging and I had far better success with steel molds. I mentioned earlier that I am thinking of making some pure lead Postell bullets and milling or filing a 50 % meplat flat nose on some just for elk.

You could always paper patch them and run them through a push-through sizer. I can patch and size with 45-70 molds that way with pure lead but for a muzzleloader so there's no problem getting the bullet to pass from the chamber into the rifling.

Planning on going back into deer hunting for the freezer this year. Lyman #457124 (408 grains) with 90 grains of FFg and two card wads gives me 1285FPS from the 27" barrel.