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I can run my .54 Renegade percussion cap well. It likes 80 grains under patched roundball, but I've never dealt with a flintlock. Only knew I wanted one and when I found another .54 it made its way home with me.
Gun looks great, bore is great, I have plenty of roundballs and I can cast LEE REAL's or T/C Maxi-Balls. I know you are supposed to use BP only on these, unlike my percussion cap where I can use pyrodex.
So what should I get/know/do? Im all ears fellas.
if all you have is bp sub, give it a try, but you may come to realize that real bp - any granulation, not just 4f - works far better and more consistently in the pan (and down the tube). i use 3f, 2f, and 1-1/2f in the pan with no ignition issues. lots will depend on the lock itself, the flint used (must be Sharp) and how it's held in the cock's jaw and where it initially hits the hammer steel (frizzen), the hardness of the frizzen's face, where you place the pan powder and how much, clearing out the touch hole, and having an overall clean lock (pan, frizzen face, flint's edge and touch hole).
we at the TMA put together an online article about trad muzzleloader basics, both flint and cap, that ya might wanna check out -
http://tradmla.org/tradml/index.html
there is some debate over using anything other than round balls in this type of gun, you might try some site searches and read before you get to far along. otherwise what he said^^^^^^
BP sub in a flintlock, hint before you try it make sure you can pull or blow the ball out.
Geezer in NH has a point. BP substitutes are often difficult to impossible to ignite in a flint lock. IF you put about 5 to 7 grains of "real" black powder down the bore before loading your Pyro/seven seventy seven, you can get reliable ignition provided you also prime with the real thing. (preferably 4Fg) I have a T/C Hawken flint lock in my shop right now with Pyro(****) pellets loaded over a Maxiball. The gun's owner tried numerous "tricks" to get it to fire and eventually tried the bullet-puller screw on the end of the ramrod. You guessed it, the end of ramrod, along with the screw is broken off in the barrel. What a bummer! Really difficult to remove T/C breech plugs. I will use a high pressure grease-gun and zerk fitting in the touch hole liner to remove the load safely. All could have been avoided by using real black powder.
i can only support what's already been typed about bp subs and flintlocks - it's not a fun combination, at best. ya really do need real bp. for yer .54 you can do 3f or 2f, and use either for the pan as there is no really pressing need for 4f pan powder. i've even used the 1-1/2f i load for bpcr cartridges in a flintlock, both down the tube and in the pan, works just fine as long as all the other criteria i mentioned above has been adhered to.
as to these commercial trad ml breech plugs, 99% are near impossible to remove, even with good tooling. that's a disaster waiting to happen, so be real careful and don't dry ball.
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I've long used the same granulation of Holy Black in both my rocklock's main & priming charges (aka: K.I.S.S.); FFFg in my .50cal (and below), FFg in my .54cal.
As in a capgun, you'll need to find what patch thickness works the best with RB's in YOUR rifle; generally, the tighter the patch, the better the accuracy, but also harder to load.
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When I first got my rock lock I tried Pyro in the pan and down the pipe. Iffy at best. I then tried 4F in the pan with pyro down the pipe. Got ignition but very slow. I now use 4f in the pan and 3f down the pipe. I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but use as little powder in the pan as you can get away with. All you need is a flash not a long burn. When I started most people told me about a third of the pan.
try 3f in the pan - having one horn makes it all much easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1
Thanks everyone, RFD I will check out that link you posted. Now the hunt is on for real BP. It seems to be rarer than hens teeth out in my neck of the woods. West of Rochester NY, East of Buffalo. Just in case anyone has a line on someone out here who sells it.
i'm up in ithaca, ny, right now, and no one has bp for sale.
bp is getting harder to find locally as most shops don't want to deal with the money sucking regulations for both storing and selling black powder, particularly when bp subs are lumped into white powder. i've always bought bp online, and now that maine powder house is out of business the vendors for bp is narrowing yet again. my last buy came from these folks, and the prices are quite good - addicted to black powder - yes, you'll pay shipping and hazmat fees, but if you go in with a few other folks or a club and get 25#, the shipping and hazmat fees are removed. i use swiss brand, and i think it's the best of the lot, but costs more. with yer .54 and patched balls, i'd get at least a few to five pounds of 3F - use it for both the tube and pan, start with 60 grains and work up. i use 60 to 75 grains of swiss 3F for my .50 hawkens and .62 smooth rifle.
enjoy that black - once used, you'll never go back to bp subs. :bigsmyl2:
Flint locks are a different animal when compared to cap locks. Some flinters have no problem with 3-FFF Black use in there flash pan. Others do. Which Black Powder too use is solely based on a locks ability to create a good shower of spark~~ or not. When shooting my T/C flinter for fun and giggles I have used 3-FFF Black occasionally in both Barrel and Pan and I expect to have misfire every so often. When I'm hunting I'm a serious hunter only 4-FFFF Black is used in my rifles flash pan. (4FFFF) is kind'a my insurance that my rifle will preform as expected when I squeeze its front set trigger >every time. Good shower of spark or not so good. It fires.
A small day horn & a little priming horn neither are troublesome or inconvenient for me to carry when out and about in those woods. "I have more trouble pulling on my suspenders than the shoulder straps on those horns."
Frankly: I have never dropped a substitute powder charge down my flinters barrel. Although it wouldn't surprise me others do. And too. I've always had store bought Black available for my shooting pleasure. These days it would be a impossibility for me not to have Black available for my shootings.
if i was anal about what goes in the pan it'd be null-b :bigsmyl2:
i can surely understand why most folks prefer 4f for ignition, it can be perceived as easier, faster, and more reliable. i use 3f, 2f and 1-1/2f in the pans with no issues and i can't remember the last time i had a pan flash. the larger part of why less than 4f works so reliably for me is that my hammer steels are well hardened, i use good 'n' sharp english or french fints, and i keep the entire ignition system clean and dry.
in all my flintlocks .32 to .62, i use 3f, main charge and prime. i tried subs in flintlocks long ago and just got frustration. in caplocks its a different story, but to simplifly things i just buy real black now. i would advise not trying to load a real tight patch and ball combo. much easier to pull out if need be. irishtoo
Black powder all the way. Years ago I got 2 cases of black powder sub donated by a company. I took it to my club to give away. I was only successful in giving away about 1/2 of one case. Once you get used to using Holy Black there's no turning back.
I did get some 7F for the pan and I can tell you it did make a difference. I would definitely go with 4F in the pan and 3F for the
Powder manufacturer actually does not recommend pellets in a cap lock or a Flintlock so the owner of this Flintlock did not read the instructions in the book I will bet he learned a valuable lesson this time around
TE=curator;3714903]Geezer in NH has a point. BP substitutes are often difficult to impossible to ignite in a flint lock. IF you put about 5 to 7 grains of "real" black powder down the bore before loading your Pyro/seven seventy seven, you can get reliable ignition provided you also prime with the real thing. (preferably 4Fg) I have a T/C Hawken flint lock in my shop right now with Pyro(****) pellets loaded over a Maxiball. The gun's owner tried numerous "tricks" to get it to fire and eventually tried the bullet-puller screw on the end of the ramrod. You guessed it, the end of ramrod, along with the screw is broken off in the barrel. What a bummer! Really difficult to remove T/C breech plugs. I will use a high pressure grease-gun and zerk fitting in the touch hole liner to remove the load safely. All could have been avoided by using real black powder.[/QUOTE]
When they made the T/C flintlocks I don't think pellets were on the market.
actually, T/C was still making the Hawken when pyrodex pellets came out. In the loading manual produced for the Hawken flinters at that time mentions pellets should not be used because of inconsistent ignition. Their use was strictly for the new inlines.
Sorry, I wasn't sure about that. At any rate, Black is your friend.