Lyman 311041 in 30-30

I picked up this mold recently from a forum member, and made a short run of 30 boolits in 13 BHN hardness (small % antimony). Lubed with 50-50 Alox-beeswax and applied a gas check, they weigh around 176-177 grs; I loaded each over 23 grs of Reloder 7. Didn’t size these, just wiped on the lube by hand - they run .309 to .311 from the mold, front band smaller than rearmost band.

I fired them from a Marlin 336 “waffle top” half magazine rifle, which my dad bought new in the early 1950’s - it sports a 6x Leupold now. It has a 24” barrel and slugs .308 with four grooves (no Microgroove). It will easily shoot under an inch at 100 yards with jacketed 150 gr pills.

Best 5 shot group with the cast slugs was 1-1/4” center to center at 40 yds and the group was about three inches to the left. There was zero unburned powder in the bore - not one kernel left. I can also see a small amount of lead near the muzzle and no soot on the end of the barrel.

Two questions:
1) Would increasing the hardness help with the leading, especially since it appears the lube is petering out before the boolit exits the barrel? Every cast design I shoot in other calibers leaves grease on the muzzle and I don’t get any visible leading, so this is bothering me a bit. We plan to use this load in 3 different rifles as a full power hunting round for feral hogs and deer.
2) Does anyone use a similar mold from another maker that carries more lube? I like molds from Accurate and Tom has a bunch of designs that look interesting.

I run a Lyman 31141, gas checked, and I run White Label 50/50 lube, and I don't have any issues with leading in my Winchester 94. I get about 1-3/4" at 70 yards, and I'm happy as a lark. Im sizing at .310.

I get some lead wash in the bore near the end of my barrel. But it isn't like chunky leading, just a minor amount of color in the bore. If that's what you're getting, I'd say its nothing to be concerned about. I don't remember if I get a lube star or not. I didn't check specifically last time I shot the gun.

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Originally Posted by Bazoo

I run a Lyman 31141, gas checked, and I run White Label 50/50 lube, and I don't have any issues with leading in my Winchester 94. I get about 1-3/4" at 70 yards, and I'm happy as a lark. Im sizing at .310.

I get some lead wash in the bore near the end of my barrel. But it isn't like chunky leading, just a minor amount of color in the bore. If that's what you're getting, I'd say its nothing to be concerned about. I don't remember if I get a lube star or not. I didn't check specifically last time I shot the gun.

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Yes, I’m getting widespread lead wash, but no big pieces. It seems to wipe out with a bore snake - but I’d still prefer some sign of lube making it to the end. I may try some LLA and see how that performs.

I can also order a Lee push-thru die at .310. Might help if the cylinder was consistent.

Try different lubes and see, a harder lube ?? Different consency ?
I had that problem with one rifle with a 30" barrel, took a while to find a lube that worked.
Ended up making my own lube to work in that gun, took a while.

I've used that boolit in both a Winchester 94 in 30-30 and a Savage 99 in 303 Savage. Plus a few through an 03A3.

Sized .310, lubed with Ben's Red and gas checked. Shoots great and I haven't had a problems.

Really like the mold, belongs to a buddy that lets me mooch it every year or two when the bullet pile starts to get low.

Think I need to have him bequeath the mold to me.

50 50 is pretty soft. I’ve had good luck with Lyman Moly, Lyman Orange Magic, and my current favorite WLL Blue Carnuba. I would also size consistently at .310 for that barrel

Agree; Size at .310 and use Ben's Red or Carnuba Blue from White Label Lube. Several other good lubes around will serve you well. I really like that Ben's Red.

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

I picked up this mold recently from a forum member, and made a short run of 30 boolits in 13 BHN hardness (small % antimony). Lubed with 50-50 Alox-beeswax and applied a gas check, they weigh around 176-177 grs; I loaded each over 23 grs of Reloder 7. Didn’t size these, just wiped on the lube by hand - they run .309 to .311 from the mold, front band smaller than rearmost band.

I fired them from a Marlin 336 “waffle top” half magazine rifle, which my dad bought new in the early 1950’s - it sports a 6x Leupold now. It has a 24” barrel and slugs .308 with four grooves (no Microgroove). It will easily shoot under an inch at 100 yards with jacketed 150 gr pills.

Best 5 shot group with the cast slugs was 1-1/4” center to center at 40 yds and the group was about three inches to the left. There was zero unburned powder in the bore - not one kernel left. I can also see a small amount of lead near the muzzle and no soot on the end of the barrel.

Two questions:
1) Would increasing the hardness help with the leading, especially since it appears the lube is petering out before the boolit exits the barrel? Every cast design I shoot in other calibers leaves grease on the muzzle and I don’t get any visible leading, so this is bothering me a bit. We plan to use this load in 3 different rifles as a full power hunting round for feral hogs and deer.
2) Does anyone use a similar mold from another maker that carries more lube? I like molds from Accurate and Tom has a bunch of designs that look interesting.

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I use that bullet in my marlin and winchester and powder coat and gas check, size at 310. I have had no problems with either and no leading. If you stay with lubing I would gas check, lube, and tumble lube with lee as the final step. This should take care of the lead 'wash' you are seeing.

I appreciate all of the answers but nobody has commented on preferred bullet hardness. Are y'all casting them on the hard side to assist with leading prevention (in addition to the lube differences)?

I'm trying to keep them on the softer side to allow for some expansion on game but the accuracy variable is more important.

I've been using the Lyman 311041 in 30-30s [M94 rifles and carbines, Marlins w/standard rifling and Microgroove, Savage lever, bolt and SS actions and others including Contender barrels] Since '68. I have shot, I don't know how many thousands of 311041s, in not only all those 30-30s but also in most every other 30 cal rifles and even some 31 cal rifles. It is my "go to" 30 cal hunting bullet. I have two Lyman moulds, a single HP and a double cavity, also a group by 6 cavity facsimile.

For many years my standard practice load has been the 411041 cast of COWWs +2% tin, AC'd, sized at .311, GC'd with Hornaday's and lubed with Javelina, 2500+ or other 50/50 lube. They are seated to the crimp groove and crimped for use in tube feeders. I load them over 28 gr H4895 mostly but have used 3031, IMR4895, BLC2, H335, AA2230, Data 2200 and 748 with good results.

Since the advent of LeveRevolution powder it has become my choice for my softer cast hunting bullets of COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. I load those over LeveRevolution with a mild load pushing the softer cast 311041HP to 2250 fps (24" M94). It is a very accurate load and holds 1500+ fps at 200 yards making it a very effective hunting bullet.

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

I appreciate all of the answers but nobody has commented on preferred bullet hardness. Are y'all casting them on the hard side to assist with leading prevention (in addition to the lube differences)?

I'm trying to keep them on the softer side to allow for some expansion on game but the accuracy variable is more important.

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I load pure lead or close to it in all my guns...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

I appreciate all of the answers but nobody has commented on preferred bullet hardness. Are y'all casting them on the hard side to assist with leading prevention (in addition to the lube differences)?

I'm trying to keep them on the softer side to allow for some expansion on game but the accuracy variable is more important.

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Change your lube or use more of the 50/50 alox -beeswax . You should have a lube star on the crown to indicate proper lubrication .
My boolit is the similar Lee C309-170-F run through a .310" sizing die to lube ...it drops right at .310" .
My rifle's bore slugs .309" so I have a good fit ... I've heard Fit trumps Hardness when it comes to boolets ... check your bore size and size to fit correctly . And use the Gas Check ! .
I'm shooting a model 94 Winchester . Bullet metal is rather softish , 1/2 clip on wheel weights mixed with 1/2 soft scrap lead (50-50) the BHN is about 9 ... (maybe ?) not very hard because I use it for huting hogs and it will mushroom nicely . My lube is an old one Lithi-Bee ... 1 part Lithium grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky) and 3 parts Beeswax . It's the best boolit lube I've ever used and I keep coming back to it . Not many shooters know what it is or assume something so simple ( 2 ingredients ) can't be that good .

Good Luck
Gary

A lot of COWW +2-3% pewter, sometimes just plain range scrap plus a couple percent pewter. I don't drive them very hard, I typically ring dingers with them.

I've never hunted with them. When younger, as in below 50, only thing around here to hunt with them is deer and during deer season there was always too much on the farm to do.

Old enough now that the only hunting that would interest me is whacking prairie dogs. Not sure a thurty-thurty is a prairie dog gun.

If you'd powder coat those 311041's you wouldn't have to worry about a lube star. It would also enable you to use a real soft alloy that would be great for a game boolit!

Thanks for all the replies. I’ll plan to size at .310 and work on a better lube.

I dug a few out of my berm last night and they are breaking up out of the 12 BHN alloy so I’m going to add some lead and go for a softer result.

I forgot to mention that I cast mine from WW alloy, with a bit of tin for fillout.

I have a NOE clone of the 311041, it's a brass mold and it casts some really awesome boolits. I just use WW's with a touch of tin added, and size it to .311 and lube with White Label's 2500+ lube. I use it in all my 30 caliber rifles with good success. Like Larry mentioned in post #10, I'm also a huge fan of Leverevolution powder in the 30-30. It gives top velocities and great accuracy with lower pressures. I can easily get 2000fps+ even from a 16" Trapper Carbine.

I load the RCBS 150 gr FN in 30-30. I use white Labels blue lube. Blue Magic? I would definitely bring your hardness up if you want full volocity hunting loads, as well as a lube rated for those velocities. I use Unique and push mine slow around 1,800 fps.

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Originally Posted by BLAHUT

I load pure lead or close to it in all my guns...

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I hope you're loading for black powder guns. Try loading pure lead in a 30-30. Doesn't work very well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwpercle

Change your lube or use more of the 50/50 alox -beeswax . You should have a lube star on the crown to indicate proper lubrication .
My boolit is the similar Lee C309-170-F run through a .310" sizing die to lube ...it drops right at .310" .
My rifle's bore slugs .309" so I have a good fit ... I've heard Fit trumps Hardness when it comes to boolets ... check your bore size and size to fit correctly . And use the Gas Check ! .
I'm shooting a model 94 Winchester . Bullet metal is rather softish , 1/2 clip on wheel weights mixed with 1/2 soft scrap lead (50-50) the BHN is about 9 ... (maybe ?) not very hard because I use it for huting hogs and it will mushroom nicely . My lube is an old one Lithi-Bee ... 1 part Lithium grease ( Lucas Red-N-Tacky) and 3 parts Beeswax . It's the best boolit lube I've ever used and I keep coming back to it . Not many shooters know what it is or assume something so simple ( 2 ingredients ) can't be that good .

Good Luck
Gary

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Gary,

I made up some Lucas Red/Tacky and beeswax but I was going on memory, and mixed it 50/50 instead of 1 + 3. However, it still came out plenty stiff, which makes me wonder what I would get with two more parts wax. I also used the microwave (sparingly) to melt everything - seemed to work fine, and quickly. Need to apply some and get to shooting.

H