Clean LLA alternative

I’ve been using LLA to tumble lube cast 222 bullets (Lee C225-55-RF) . All works good but leaves a filthy mess in the barrel - takes about 10 patches per shot to clean and if I don’t immediately it attracts moisture and rusts. Is there a good alternative for low vel rifle bullets (3.5gr AS70N - behaves like a HV 22LR)? I want to tumble lube as I get good accuracy using these as cast and it’s really quick and easy. I lubrisize bigger bullets with Beaver Grease which is fantastic (barely more dirty than jacketed), but frankly I can’t be bothered with these little one! I’m in Australia so off the shelf options are limited.

I’m reluctant to get into PC as I’d need the oven etc., likewise other high tech coatings. I like the performance of LLA just not the aftermath quick and easy. I lubrisize bigger bullets with beaver grease which is fantastic (barely more dirty than jacketed), but frankly I can’t be ****ed with these little ones.

You can look up on this subforum the formula for Ben's liquid Lube. It is basically LLA thinned with old-style floor wax. Some have reported having trouble finding the wax, however, you should be able to find an alternative brand that is close enough where you live. It is basically the organic solvent that does the work.

I have been using BLL for my pistol boolits with good success, and find no real trouble with cleaning my guns.

LLA is calcium soap. Its original application is as a rust preventative coating. How the hell is it attracting moisture and rusting your barrel? Something else is going on.

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Originally Posted by imashooter2

LLA is calcium soap. Its original application is as a rust preventative coating. How the hell is it attracting moisture and rusting your barrel? Something else is going on.

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I thin it out and paint it on the metal parts of my guns for long term storage. It's like Cosmoline!

Make some Bens Liquid Lube.... the instructions are here, also for the newer floor wax, if you can't find the original stuff.
It's great!! I'm lubing everything from .38s to .35 Whelens with it. No problems.

Rooster coat.

Thanks guys, I’ll look into BLL and Rooster.

I’m not 100% on it causing rust - it could’ve been circumstantial. I picked up this 222 used and cleaned the bore throughly, it was blemishless. After shooting jacketed for quite a while I started on cast. If I only fired a shot or two (like rabbits around the house) I might not clean it for a day or two. One time I left it for a few days and noticed accuracy was off. I cleaned it thoroughly and took me quite a while and once patches were coming out clean saw a very small area of maybe 2-3 tiny pits about 5” back from the crown. This was after a 4 days tops, 5 -10 shots max. None of my other cast bullets do this work Beaver Grease and this barrel doesn’t foul with jacketed bullets. Needless to say I always patch till they come out clean after every use now. Still Shoots fine but is always a big PITA patch out, so much so it makes me not want to shoot
It. I’ve read others having issues with LLA being dirty, my assumption is the lube is the issue.

It has been suggested I may be putting too much LLA on I guess this is possible, but I did quite a bit of reading about quantities - put 100 ish bullets in a zip lock bag, a small squirt of LLA and massaged it in. Spread them on a tray, it took a few hours to dry and didn’t feel sticky - by eye it doesn’t seem excessive to me? I’m assuming the rust would be from powder residue being the main hygroscopic agent but the lube binding it somehow? Either way, I have no issues with this powder (ADI AS30n equivalent to Hodgdon red dot)in other rifles with other lube
https://i.imgur.com/WZkQswhl.jpg

Actually, that looks just a little light for use in a rifle at anything more than subsonic velocities. I'd do them again with the same amount of LLA for two light coats. Properly done, you should have light was copper color with a visible ring in the lube grooves.

For rifle bullets I generally like grease in a grease groove.. but lla should work..

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Originally Posted by rintinglen

Actually, that looks just a little light for use in a rifle at anything more than subsonic velocities. I'd do them again with the same amount of LLA for two light coats. Properly done, you should have light was copper color with a visible ring in the lube grooves.

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I reckon these are hovering around sun sonic/supersonic - it’s a very light load. I reckon my issue is too much fouling though - would more lube really help this?

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Originally Posted by Soundguy

For rifle bullets I generally like grease in a grease groove.. but lla should work..

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in general, and higher loads I agree. But for these 22LR style loads I think a light tumble is fine

Remember..2 light coats are better than a thick coat. I agree.. I would lube those a bit more. Try this test.. Take a small quantity.. Use a toothpick and apply some lla right to the lube grooves.. You can use a piece of wax paper as a wipe so that you are only filling grooves. Allow to cure. Then start with a clean barrel and shoot. If you want to further test this have another test group and rub some conventional 'hard lube' in the grooves right over the lla. Even beeswax..

Compare.

I'll bet the ones with more lube work out better.

Here is something like powder coating that doesn't need baking in an oven .

Frankford Arsenal (Midway USA) Drop Out Bullet Mould Release Agent ... the stuff that comes in a 6 oz. Spray Can ... while the coating will build up and muck up a mould... lead doesn't stick to it at all ... stand the boolits up and give them a spray coat ...maybe two thin coats ... for a quickie spray coating job ... they dry in a few minutes and ready to load .
The coating is a bear to get off your moulds even with acetone and a stiff brush ...so it adhere's to boolits quite well . Works for a fast lube job with handgun boolits , never went over 1,000 fps with it ... but no leading in handgun barrel . That old can of Drop Out is finding a better use than it's original intended purpose !
Gary

You might try Cast Bullet Engineering to see if they have any 45-45-10 in stock. We(White Label Lube) ship to them occasionally, just don't remember when the last shipment was.
I use 45-45-10 instead of LLA. I think it dries harder and leaves much less mess to deal with. I use it for bulk 38 special and 45 Colt cowboy loads and have never had any problems with rust.
As was stated above, Liquid Alox was originally made as a rust preventative.

Off topic question for lar45: does White Label ship 45-45-10 Xlox to Alaska? I have been pan lubing for years but juggling pans on the wood stove and wearing out my thumb using a cake cutter has finally lost its charm.

Until recently I've only lubed with Alox. I've never seen much more fouling than I get from burnt gun powder residue. Like others have said Alox is a rust preventative. I don't know about now but the US Navy used to use it on ships. I've found that unless it scrapes off when seating the boolit, there's not too much...

Have you ever heard of Ed's Red bore cleaner? It's a simple to make home brew gun cleaner that really works. I've seen it was flakes and strips of lead out of a barrel. I'll post the directions on how to make it if no one here objects...

Tony

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Originally Posted by technojock

Until recently I've only lubed with Alox. I've never seen much more fouling than I get from burnt gun powder residue. Like others have said Alox is a rust preventative. I don't know about now but the US Navy used to use it on ships. I've found that unless it scrapes off when seating the boolit, there's not too much...

Have you ever heard of Ed's Red bore cleaner? It's a simple to make home brew gun cleaner that really works. I've seen it was flakes and strips of lead out of a barrel. I'll post the directions on how to make it if no one here objects...

Tony

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I'd object if you didn't. ;-)

"I cleaned it thoroughly and took me quite a while and once patches were coming out clean saw a very small area of maybe 2-3 tiny pits about 5” back from the crown."

Are you sure those are "pits" and not lead?

Did you use a brush when cleaning the bore?

As mentioned, LLA is a preservative and will not cause rust. Also, as mentioned, a second similar light coat of LLA should cure the problem if it is leading. If the 222's barrel is longer than 20" then my speculation is it is actually leading, and the small 22 cal bullets are running out of lube before they exit.

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Originally Posted by technojock

Until recently I've only lubed with Alox. I've never seen much more fouling than I get from burnt gun powder residue. Like others have said Alox is a rust preventative. I don't know about now but the US Navy used to use it on ships. I've found that unless it scrapes off when seating the boolit, there's not too much...

Have you ever heard of Ed's Red bore cleaner? It's a simple to make home brew gun cleaner that really works. I've seen it was flakes and strips of lead out of a barrel. I'll post the directions on how to make it if no one here objects...

Tony

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Already in the archives.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...27s+red+recipe

I have used AS-30 in a 223 and the 55 grain RCBS bullet,without gas check,also with LLA,not a heavy coat,usually the LLA is diluted with some mineral turps.I am a barrel cleaner and try to clean or at least have the barrel wet with something with oil in it,before putting away each day.With most lead loads a patch wet with Ed’s Red pushed through the barrel and another one or two ,to wet the barrel,is all that Is needed,then one dry patch before shooting again.If you suspect leading a tight patch with JB paste on it will usually grab the lead and remove it.