Rock Tumbler into wet tumbler

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10-31-2023, 08:24 PM
YoungGun88

Rock Tumbler into wet tumbler

Hey all,

I'm new here, so outside of my introductory post, figured I'd offer up a recent solution to a problem(well, an adjustment of sorts) I had. Nothing new or revolutionary, but I'm kind of a sucker for "overbuilding ****" 8-)

Some months back, I picked up a Frankford Arsenal tumbler, aka "The FART". Truth be told, being a new person to reloading(on my own, have done it with friends in the past), I've been getting brass prepped the past few weeks in the off time during the evenings. A single stage Rockchucker is slow going for 2000-3000 9mm casings, and other mixed sizes including some rifle. But I've pretty much got to the end, and now I want to add a LEE APP for decapping duty going forward...

Anyhow, having given the vibratory tumblers a go first, I was frustrated at the dust, plus the ever present issue with the brass not being nice and shiny! Not that it matters, but I guess some OCD kinda kicked in.
So I picked up the FART from my local reloading supplier, Phillips Wholesale. Nice shop, if you're in the LA area. He had one on the shelf, so I figured why not!

Then I found a rock tumbler on the online classifieds. Industrial duty type one. C&M Topline. Double roller, HEAVY DUTY! For practically the same $200 the FART cost me, I got the rock tumbler, two barrels and a wide assortment of ceramic media from the guy selling it. See photos below.

But while the drums worked great with the ceramic media, deburring some metal parts as a test, with wet brass and stainless media, plus some Dawn and a splash of vinegar, the drums were too slick! Not enough 'churn'. Brass was definitely cleaner, but I knew I had tot modify them to get some more tumbling action.

So, I added some internal paddles, to encourage brass and media being properly agitated. Cut down from an old plastic cutting board, and secured with stainless screws through the barrel wall into the paddles, they're proving to be the perfect solution I needed!

The tumbler is physically larger than the FART by quite a bit, but I have it on the lower shelf of a cart I have here in my shop space. It's also very quiet compared to the FART when running. Not a whisper, but more of a gentle hum.

With two of the internal paddles added, brass after a 2hr cycle is gorgeous! 30-40 rotations in the Frankford media separator, with 3-4" of fresh water in the separator basin, and a tumble inside a dry towel to sponge off most of the residual water, they look terrific!

The small s/s pins are kind of a pain, not as in getting stuck, but simply because they're so small! I do the media separation with 4" or so of water inside the basin, so fresh water is rinsing out the brass. Then a final rinse with the hose prior to drying with the towel.

Now my FART sits unused, the drum still dry from never having been given a chance to prove itself, but the versatility of the larger drums(plus having two drums vs just one) inclines me to consider moving the FART to a new home.

Anyone locally looking for one, unused? I've ordered up some more s/s media as I used the stuff included with the FART package.

cheers,
Dan

https://i.ibb.co/B3DN6KJ/CMTopline-Tumbler-1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/b55wDx1/CMTopline-Tumbler-2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/zF7jkNT/CMTopline-Barrel-Paddles.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/348v8g2/Wet-Tumbled-Brass-1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pzyPnXR/Wet-Tumbled-Brass-2.jpg
10-31-2023, 09:30 PM
Dave W.

Great idea, good looking brass. Enjoy reloading and shooting them.
11-01-2023, 03:45 AM
Nobade

Good score! That is a lot better and longer lasting than the FART. Plus you can make more drums for it if you feel the need. I've been using 4 inch PVC for drums.
11-01-2023, 05:56 AM
jetinteriorguy

I would ditch the vinegar and use citric acid in your solution.
11-01-2023, 10:54 AM
txbirdman

Awhile back I was checking around my shop and noticed an old Thumbler Tumbler Model B that I had picked up at a garage sale for $25 a few years ago. Those things seem to last forever but are painfully slow so I decided to experiment with a different way. The drum liner was probably water proof at one time but not anymore. So I decided to take a gallon ziplock bag and fill it about 1/2 full of 9MM brass and fill the rest with a solution of warm water; lemishine; and dish washing detergent. To insure the ziploc wouldn’t come undone I taped it shut with duct tape. I let the tumbler run for about 3 hours and was amazed at how well it cleaned the brass. I really didn’t think it would do much without pins but was pleasantly surprised.
11-01-2023, 11:27 AM
YoungGun88

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

I would ditch the vinegar and use citric acid in your solution.

Is the vinegar too strong? I don't want to shorten the life of the brass, just to get it shiny. I do know that leaving it in solution for too long can make it turn pink, which shows the zinc leaching out, IIRC?
11-03-2023, 12:03 PM
Wayne Smith

Yes, but citric acid passivates brass. That is, it changes the surface so it will not, or at least slows down, oxidation.
11-09-2023, 11:37 PM
bbogue1

I have experimented so many ways to get brass shiny and have it stay that way for years. About 6 years ago I started experimenting with common chemicals and tried so many variations including the water hardness and different ways to dry the cases. Just fun educated trial and error. I finally came up with a formula that works pretty well, thought is problematic when softened hard water is used and the nice shine brass tarnishes within a year. To date, the only solution to softened hard water was bottled drinking water as a final rinse, though there is something still active on the brass causing tarnishing over time. It sounds crazy, but rinsing well is only part of the answer. Oxidation seems to be the main culpret with a chemical reside present too.
11-10-2023, 07:38 AM
Bill Allen

I'm a tad fussy with my brass so if it's not half decent when I start to clean it up i'll put it in the wet wash first tumble it till the crudes gone. Dish soap and lemi shine tumble till decent, Dump it out and let it dry at this point I take a look at the inside of the brass usually clean but not shiny. Then in the vibrator with some polish after a bit their both clean from the dish soap and shiny from the wax. Not a big deal I go and do something else while they do their thing, The brass seems to stay shiny longer this way (for me)
11-18-2023, 05:12 PM
W.R.Buchanan

Are those last Rifle cases .35-.30-40 Krag? if not what are they. They look very similar to my .35-303 cases which are very similar to the .35 Krag cases.

Randy
11-18-2023, 05:26 PM
JimB..

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Are those last Rifle cases .35-.30-40 Krag? if not what are they. They look very similar to my .35-303 cases which are very similar to the .35 Krag cases.

Randy

If we’re guessing, 45-70 with a cannelure.
11-19-2023, 11:52 PM
YoungGun88

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Are those last Rifle cases .35-.30-40 Krag? if not what are they. They look very similar to my .35-303 cases which are very similar to the .35 Krag cases.

Randy

45-70 with a cannelure :-)
11-20-2023, 01:17 AM
Chill Wills

I have used both the SS pins and the small ceramic. I got rid of the SS pins. They work, but I just like working with the easy to use ceramic media. A little laundry soap like oxiclean powder or any other laundry soap really, works great. Use less than you think you need. The laundry soap is low suds!
11-21-2023, 04:50 PM
hk940

Question on Cannelure

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungGun88

45-70 with a cannelure :-)

I have used the SS pins with Armorall wash and wax car wash and lemi shine for about 6 years and have gotten results that were far and above what I could get from dry tumbling (at one time I had three). I have tumbled some 1917 head stamped .45 APC I shot in the mid 70's that looked black. after wet tumbling they looked new!
Why does some 45-70 cases have a cannelure and some don't?
11-21-2023, 05:01 PM
Chill Wills

This applies to the cartridges waiting to be fired in a magazine. The cannelure physically keeps the loaded bullet from moving back deeper into the case upon recoil.
11-21-2023, 05:26 PM
hk940

I have both a Marlin 1895 and Ruger #1 in 45-70. Should I just shoot cases with a cannelure out of the Marlin and those with out in the Ruger. I know I could shoot both out of the Ruger, being a single shot.
11-21-2023, 05:31 PM
hk940

Does the cannelure determine the weight of the bullet?
11-21-2023, 09:11 PM
Chill Wills

No. We don't worry about it. When you load for Lever rifles, you can give them a light crimp in the front of the crimp groove or even a lube groove if that works for your needs. The crimped in front of the case month blocks the bullet from moving into the case. As you know, none of this is needed for singleshots.