Honing 45-70 chamber?

So I have a winchester hotchkiss with some chamber rust/corrosion. I am thinking of honing it to clean it up. Brush research has 45 colt chamber hones, I know dimensions differ, but would this work in a 45-70? Other recommendations ? Thanks

This depends on how bad the corrosion in the chamber is. You can't hone or ream a chamber very much without changing the dimensions to some extent. If the remaining pits are still bad you will most likely encounter extraction problems, as the fired brass will extrude into the pits and resist extraction. The best way I have found to clean up an antique chamber is to take a wood dowel of appropriate diameter and length and cut a slot in one end. Then take a piece of 400 grit w&d sandpaper and fold it into the slot like a cleaning patch in a cleaning rod, dip it into kerosene, and run it in and out of the chamber a few times using a hand drill. Clean out the sludge and see what you've got. Exactly how long to run the drill is a judgment call--maybe 30 seconds. If you are getting good results you can repeat the operation, but like anything it can be overdone. Not having your chamber to look at I can't make the call, but ultimately the best solution is a re-barrel job with a new chamber. Again, a judgment call on what it's like after you finish the operation.

DG

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YMMV, but I wouldn't lose the originality by re-barreling your Hotchkiss.

Keep in mind that, even though some of the later rifles may have been made a little after smokeless powder became available, they are basically black powder guns.

If you want to fire it after a light clean-up, I would suggest using a BP gallery load of a .457" round ball or Lyman collar button bullet over 5-10 grains of FFg.

Some use 4-5-6 grains of Trail Boss or 10gr Unique.

You might want to google ".45-70 gallery loads"

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Thanks. It's a first Model Winchester Hotchkiss. I generally use unique or 5774 loads in my blackpowder cartridge rifles. As suggested I would only shoot gallery type loads in this one. I don't think the chamber is Really pitted , I think there is some Rust or gunk that the cleaning brush can't quite handle.

you can sleeve the chamber.

If its really only surface and hard deposits you might try a green scratch pad on a jag to work it loose. wet with a good solvent and work by hand.

If its bad enough to require drastic measures if the od is enough the chamber could be sleeved and recut. Here the the old chamber is bored out +.150-.200 then a sleeve fitted and pressed in and rechambered. just the chamber or chamber and throat can be done. takes some measuring to determine where the end is and then boring to that depth.

What about a 50 cal bore brush on a cleaning rod section and a battery drill, maybe with a very, very fine abrasive (JB, Flitz, toothpaste, etc.). SLOW AND LOW! I would not polish to mirror due to dimension loss and possible bolt thrust voodoo.

If the pits are very deep you might need to enlarge the chamber excessively to entirely remove them. Try an agressive cleaning then try firing a few rounds to see if the cases extract with difficulty and show drag marks upon extraction .

Light loads may be OK, but if Trapdoor level charges give hard extraction, sleeving the chamber and re-reaming is the best solution. John Taylor would be a good resource if you have questions.

You could always take the barrel off, plug it, and carefully use something like Evapo-rust https://www.evapo-rust.com/ to remove the rust from the chamber, and rifling. Just be careful to keep it away from any bluing (which is a form of rust).

Just a thought,

-Ron

Attachment 293940

Trying to upload a bore scope picture so you can see what I am talking about

If you're firing it now, and not experiencing extraction problems, it's because the rust is filling in the pits not unlike patching a pothole in the asphalt on a city street. Removing the rust simply because well it don't belong or it should not be there is one way of looking at a problem getting ready to create a different problem by "fixing" the first. If you are oiling the metal enough to keep the rust from getting any worse, and the rifle is firing and extracting like it's supposed to, then what's the problem?

A point of interest, years ago my neighbor had an old Pontiac Grand Prix with a valve cover leaking oil. He took the valve cover off and was horrified at the globs of sludge that inhabited the valve springs, and everything else inside the valve cover. Years of Quaker State will do this better than any other oil.

He went to the parts house and invested in some Bardahl or other type of crankcase cleaner, sludge remover, and before he did anything I told him that if he did remove the sludge with a cleaner, it would also remove the sludge and varnish in the ring grooves and that the motor would most certainly smoke after he was done. I told him that sludge sitting somewhere not circulating in the oil was not a problem, that it wouldn't hurt anything, and that it was the best place it could be, out of circulation. He looked at me like I was nuts. A week later the car was using crazy amounts of oil and it smoked up the front yard every time he cranked it up. It smoked going down the road. He was more than a little bit pissed, but could not bring himself to address me at all. He avoided any contact and conversation, eventually sold the car, then moved. I never heard from him again but you can bet he will impart this lesson to others when faced with the same situation.

Point being, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Pits in chambers have to be pretty wide and deep to prevent extraction. Typically, after pounding the case out with a cleaning rod (or piece of drill rod) you’ll see “warts” on the case, partially ironed down by the rest of the chamber upon removal.

I’ve honed chambers with minor extraction problems caused by surface rusting or rings from crowded chambering reamers by taking a worn or neck-cracked case fired in that chamber, drilling and threading the primer hole, mounting it on a piece of threaded rod, coating it with Clover 320, and spinning it slowly in the chamber with a variable-speed drill for however many seconds I figure is needed. I then clean up and try another round to see if things are better.

I might do the honing again, maybe a few times more, running the drill slowly and pushing and pulling the abrasive-charged shell in and out while spinning it in the drill. Always for 30 seconds or under, and cleaning and checking frequently by firing a shot or two and checking the extraction and the surface of the extracted shell.

If this procedure “enlarges the chamber,” it can’t be by much; I’ve never noticed any enlargement, myself. On the other hand, I’ve seen extraction go from arduous to normal by doing this procedure.

The only untoward result came on a friend’s Ross rifle, which had the battlefield chamber enlargement, apparently done with a rat-tale file. That one went from having to use a leather mallet to start the bolt back after firing to having the bolt unlock and come back 1/8” after every shot. Never did more than that, but it was kind of unnerving shooting the thing.

Someone once suggested that I clean the chamber from a rough Krag chamber by using an OILED grey colour scotch brite pad. Cut a small piece and insert it into the slot of a cleaning rod, oil it, put the rod into the chamber and put a piece of tape at that depth around the cleaning rod, attach to a cordless drill and go low and slow. Easing in and out of the affected area (s).
The comment about the rust filling holes or pits is spot on. The method I mentioned will leave the rust in the pits, just smoothed over.
The Krag turned out fantastic BTW.

Edit: LIGHT GREY is the colour you want. My local Napa carries it, but it can be ordered quite easily also.

I was thinking about the Evapo Rust type products. You may not need to remove the barrel. Make sure all oils and grease has been removed. You can also use it with Scotch Bright to speed things up. Just be careful about blued parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acder

. I am thinking of honing it to clean it up.

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I'd do a few seconds with a piece from a gray (fine grade/grit) scotchbrite on a smaller size bore brush too.
Or in a pinch, cut/pull the scotchbrite off a slightly used kitchen scrubber sponge/pad.
Scotchbrite 'dulls' with use like sandpaper.
Any of them will be more prone to leave scratches or be more 'aggressive' when they're new.

Leaving the pits filled with the old rust should be fine. Just keep it well oiled so they don't grow.
I'd want it to shoot well. That would be more important to me than winning a beauty contest with it.