Printable View
I've looked until I'm blue in the face trying to find any mention of 312 Diameter 94 Grain Lead Flat Nose in the 32 auto. I recently bought a box of Meister 500 out of frustration trying to find 74 grain (which immediately appeared after I bought the 94s :? ). Anyone have any experience with a heavy bullet in the pop gun? With factory rounds going for $1 apiece I have to start reloading this little thing. At least it's bigger than the 25...
Cheers,
George J,
Heavy bullets often need to be seated very deep or the nose will jam in the rifling and not allow proper cycling. The walls of 32 acp cases get thicker very quickly, heavy bullets seated deeply will often bulge out the sides of the case. Now you can run these through a Lee FCD, but this will reduce the size of your bullet. If you are shooting a tight barreled pistol a smaller bullet diameter may be ok, if it is one of the larger diameter barrels you may have a problem.
Then is your gun steel framed or one of the lighter guns that are known to crack frames.
Search “Outpost75 32acp” I believe that he has posted some load data for the 90 grain xtp jacketed bullet, and quite a bit of data for 87 grain bullets. Start low and increase charge weight until you have reliable functioning.
Thanks - it is a M1935 Beretta from 1958 that was absolutely pristine and unfired listed as like new & it definitely was. It is of course steel framed, and the springs are incredibly strong, so the gun is up to it if my loads are. I may run them through my RCBS sizer/lub dies - I use the 311 and 312 for 303 Brit and 7.65 Argie, just have to look for a suitable top punch or bite the boolit and order 1 more..
.
The RCBS Little Dandy measure rotors and their suitability for metering small pistol charges:
Rotor #00 meters 1.7 grains of Bullseye. This provides a pleasant and reliable practice load in the .32 ACP with 87 through 95-grain cast bullets, approximating .32 S&W Long ballistics from a 4" revolver of the same barrel length. This Group 1 load can be used continuously and without worry in your Keltec or Beretta Tomcat. The #00 rotor also meters 2 grains of TiteGroup, a full-charge “Group 1” load with 77 or 78 grain bullets for safe use in the tiny guns. The #00 rotor also meters 2.5 grains of AutoComp, a “Group 1,” standard-pressure load with 87 to 95-grain bullets giving about 850 fps from a 3.4” pocket pistol.
Rotor #0 meters 2.2 grains of Bullseye, according to the RCBS Little Dandy Charge Table, a widely published load in .32 ACP with standard weight 71-77 grain bullets. Mine averages 2.05 of current Alliant product and 2.1 of older Hercules from the 1970s. Bullseye, like TiteGroup, peaks quickly with small increases in charge weight, so you must be cautious. Using RCBS Rotor #0 with current Alliant Bullseye, the Accurate 31-090B bullet gets 850 fps from my M1903 Colt with 3-3/4” barrel and 800 fps from the 2.4" Tomcat - a “Group 2” load which should not be exceeded.
Rotor #1, according to the RCBS charge table, meters 2.5 grains of Bullseye. Mine actually averages 2.35 of current Alliant product and 2.4 of older Hercules. This is a full charge load with the 71-grain Magtech, Hornady or Remington FMJ bullets at 0.97” OAL for 968 fps, from a 3.5” barrel, approximating CIP-Euro factory ammunition. Substituting Green Dot in LD Rotor #1 throws 2 grains of that powder, producing about 800 fps with the 77-78 grain NOE and Accurate bullets, being a safe “Group 1” practice load for continuous use in the Keltecs and other micro-pistols.
.32 ACP "Group 1" Loads Minimum Ctg. OAL 0.945,” which don’t exceed factory energy, suitable as a "steady diet" in Tomcat and Keltec pistols:
Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”
Acc. 31-077B 2.5 HP38____________810, 12 Sd_______not fired
Acc. 31-077B LD#00 2.0 TiteGroup__790, 12 Sd________893, 19 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#0 2.2 Bullseye____757, 16 Sd________932, 24 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#1 2.5 Bullseye____835, 16 Sd________956, 18 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__837, 10 Sd________957, 16 Sd
Acc.31-090B LD#00 2.5 AutoComp__729, 11 Sd________833, 6 Sd
Acc. 31-095T LD#00 1.7 Bullseye___640, 11 Sd________729, 9 Sd
Acc. 31-095T LD#00 2.5 AutoComp_741, 25 Sd________840, 6 Sd
“Group 2” Loads which exceed “average factory energy” - NOT for Beretta Tomcat or Keltec.
Ammunition ___________________Beretta M1935 3.4”
Accurate 31-077B 5.6 #2400______957 fps, 15 Sd
Acc.31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique_____1067 fps, 19 Sd*
Acc.31-087T LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P_962, 19 Sd
Acc.31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400______926, 14 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye____851, 14 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 2.3 grains HP38______839, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 2.5 grain Unique______901, 33 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#00 2.0 Titegroup___902, 16 Sd
Acc.31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp+P_999, 14 Sd
Acc. 31-090B LD#7 5.6 #2400______904, 20 Sd
Hdy 85XTP.312” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P__976, 8 Sd__Use .312 bullet only in pistols which slug .311" or larger in groove diameter
Hdy 90XTP.309” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp+P__968, 17 Sd_Use .309 bullet in pistols which slug .310" or smaller in groove diameter
I really want to find some 60-gr or 71-gr FMJ or HP bullets for reloading .32ACP.
But just try! Can't find bullets or brass in .32ACP anywhere. Hornady lists loads for their own 60-gr bullet, but have DISCONTINUED the bullet. Thanks, Hornady!
Bear Creek sells an 80-gr moly-coated cast bullet. Bought a box of them. But NOBODY lists loads for 80-gr bullets in .32ACP.
https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/32-acp-80gr
Tis a quandary....
2 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup at minimum OAL 0.955" is a safe, full-charge load with 80-87grain bullet. Have fired multiple thousands of rounds in light alloy frame postwar Berettas as well as in Colt M1903 and Walther PP.
Accurate 31-081H has flat nose, but otherwise resembles factory hardball profile, fits the Euro-CIP chamber throat and feeds in all pistols I have tried it in. In most guns size to .311 and give a light coating of 45-45-10 or Lee Liquid Alox.
Attachment 285837
Check out the Berry's Bullets website. They are most likely out of stock but sometimes you can get lucky. Try to get on a backorder list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty1776
Outpost has more experience with heavy boolits in the 32 ACP than anybody I've ever heard tell of. My own experience with a 93~ish grain boolit in a Tomcat was discouraging due to the disparity between POA and POI, but he has done some fine shooting with his.
These days, I cast my own 70 grain hollow points using an MP 32 ACP, or else I use a Ranch Dog designed 314-75 RF. I believe the Ranch Dog design is available from NOE, but Al is backed up so far he's still using last week's daylight.
I’ve shot 60-93 gr bullets in the .32acp.
OutPost’s data closely matches my experience.
Word of caution: I destroyed my Beretta TomCat by excessive shooting. Frame and slide cracking. Most of my loads centered on accuracy and function as the .32acp isn’t conducive to hot roding. Small increases in powder can spike pressures. I recently was shooting some 78gr Lyman .311” RN. I’d loaded them over 2.2gr of Bullseye (top of recommended weight) in mixed brass. I was firing them through a recently acquired Beretta Mod81. Yes, I was seeing 950-1,000fps till one blew out at the side of the case above the case head. Got my attention! 1.8gr works the action and is more accurate and throws the cases into a nest pile over my right shoulder. They’ll do anything you need done with a .32acp
An excellent “heavier” bullet is the Lee 90gr SWC. Loaded short enough to easily chamber in the short throat of the M81, it is totally reliable. With 1.6gr of Bullseye, it is also very accurate. I coat them with Harbor Freight PC, and size them to .311” for the ACP. I initially size them to .314” for the .327Fed, .32H&R, and ..32s&wl. However, there is only a small accuracy loss shooting the .311” through the revolver cartridges.
With the .32acp, you have to watch the bullet diameter so as to ensure proper chambering. Some European brass is somewhat thicker than the US, Brazilian, or Philippine brass. .311” bullets will readily swage down to .308-.309” bores, but may bulge the thicker brass causing a failure to chamber.
Another outstanding heavy bullet is the Lee 93gr RN. It has a short round profile and readily seats in the .32acp brass. MUST be loaded to less than .940” to properly feed. I use 1.6gr of Bullseye for 825fps from the M81, 750fps from the KelTec P32.
Doesn’t hurt that the Lee 6-cav mold practically “rains” bullets...
Even my .30Carbines like this bullet PC’d at .311”. Accuracy falls way off at .308”.
Excellent information here!
I recently obtained the US Armament Colt 1903. It's quite accurate. The Fiocchi 60 gr XTP factory load averages 1109 fps, SD 24. Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ factory load averages 923 fps, SD 6.
The Rimrock 76 grain FP bullet with 2.3 gr Titegroup averages 981 fps, SD 18. However, when loaded at 0.935 OAL to prevent rimlock, it engraves the rifling when chambered. I don't view that as safe or practical. The same round chambers fine in my Kel -Tec P32 and averages 860 fps. I reduced the OAL to 0.910 so that it clears the rifling on the M1903, but the round rimlocked repeatedly in the Colt.
I've ordered some Meister 94 gr RNFP sized .312. They appear to be long enough that seated normally they will clear the rifling and also not rimlock. With this heavier bullet, I'm trying to a find a propellant that will work without sub-2.0 grain charges. Finding any powder now is difficult, and Autocomp is not available.
I have Accurate No.5 (which is close to Autocomp in burn rate), and Hodgdon Longshot (which is slightly faster than 2400). Wondering what the thoughts are on those in the .32 ACP with the 94 grain bullet. This will be for the Colt 1903 only.
How about 78 grains? https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...314-78-rf-bd5/
Works great in 1903 Colts.
Looking at relative chamber specs, the SAAMI chamber calls for a rifling leade of only 0.0653". The C.I.P. chamber calls for a more generous leade of 0.1578", more than double. Coupled with a tight bore, I think this is why bullets are engraving in this Colt when chambered. Even factory Fiocchi 73 gr FMJ is showing light engraving marks around the full circumference of the bullet.
Oddly, none of these loads are engraving in the Kel-Tec P32...
If you have a .30 M1 Carbine finish chamber reamer, this can be carefully run into a .32 ACP chamber and stopped short to cut a longer and more gradual throat to give a better fit to cast bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuduking
Have any of you skilled folks developed a successful load using Berry's bullets for the 1914 Mauser? the different bullet profile makes OAL measurements less exact, and I've tried to be careful with such small powder charges. I've been working with Bullseye and Titegroup, and haven't yet developed a load with the velocity or reliability of Fiocchi factory ammo. With Fiocchi this pistol cycles ok "most of the time" with the occasional FTE jam.
Excellent info, thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75
First efforts with Meister Bullets in the modern Colt 1903.
Control Load - Geco 73 FMJ factory - 924 fps SD5
- 78 gr RN .312, 2.2 gr Titegroup, Geco brass, WSP, OAL 0.945": 974 fps SD15
- 94 gr FP (actual 96 gr) .312, 2.5 gr Accurate #5, FC brass, WSP, OAL 0.955":
706 fps SD10
The FP max length is 0.955, as otherwise the nose would not clear the chamber/ejection port to unload a live round. This bullet also caused a mid-case bulge on a few cases, preventing chambering. I used Federal cases thinking they might be thinner than Euro cases, but will try a different case next.
Everything has a practical limit, and I think the Meister 96 gr bullet in the .32 ACP is beyond it. Just can't get the bullet seated for correct feeding without bulging the case; it's too long. Lee factory crimp die merely made the bulge more uniform. Don't like it.
The SNS 90 grain FP has a pretty good meplat and a shorter nose. It loads beautifully at OAL 0.945". With 2.0 grains of Titegroup it averaged 908 fps SD 3 for 165 fpe in the Colt 1903. Not a particular tack driver, but is sub-minute of small melon @50 feet with a 6 o'clock hold (2" high). The heavy bullets shoot a bit high consistently.
The Rimrock 75 grain FP shoots very well at OAL 0.935" with 2.3 grains of Titegroup, averaging 985 fps SD 12 for 162 fpe. This one is more accurate with sub-minute of large onion @50 feet, again with a 6 o'clock hold (1-1/2" high).
The sadly discontinued Hornady 60 grain XTP with 2.7 grains of Titegroup at OAL 0.940" gets 1110 fps SD 10 for 164 fpe. This is the accurate winner with sub-minute of medium tomato @50feet, and dead nuts on to boot.
All these loads are 100% reliable in the Colt 1903, and the last two in the Kel-Tec P32. Will take the advice offered and keep the 90 grain load away from the P32. When I get to the outdoor range with better lighting I can post groups. Thanks for all the help, especially Outposts' extensive testing.
Rumor has it that Hornady has under development a 70-grain Critical Defense bullet with polymer insert which matches FMJ hardball contour.
Can anyone confirm or deny? Is this going to be available as loaded ammunition only, or as component bullets also?
I made an inquiry on this..Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75
For quite some time now I have been shooting 62 grain bullets in my Pardini target gun. I did a plethora of experimentation because target shooters wanted to be accurate with lead. All of my efforts, along with friends I drew into the experiments, posted on target talk about how we moved along with different trials. My finish bullet is one I designed on Accurate molds site which casts at .314 because the barrels are .314 diameter. We even use an expander that is .314. At this size we had brass bulge which is why I designed it with such a short base. We get close to 1 inch five shot groups at 50 yards mostly with either tight group powder around 1.5 grains or titewad with around 1.12 grains. We are shooting at a slow rate of around 680 to 720 fps and I am sure you want or even need more power to make your actions work but this bullet with more powder in your guns will probably do well and a lot of bullets can be made out of a pound of lead. Some commercial bullet manufacturer picked up on this and started selling these same bullets. I can't remember the name but if you look around you will find them. I have heard that they are harder than a lot of people wanted but others are still using them because they don't cast.