Question for you guys that know 2400 real well .......

I'm using load data I found in a 1992 Hercules publication . Cartridge is the .223 Remington , bullet is a fifty grain Speer "TNT" and the load listed is 14.5 grains of 2400 . I'm also using Federal commercial cases and Winchester small rifle primers The overall cartridge length is 2.268" . I'm not far from the minimum length they list and bullet is seated about ten thousanths away from the rifling .

I started workup of the load at twelve grains and have been moving up by two tenths grain each try . The load develops a lot of black smudging up to thirteen point six and showed slight lessening . Accuracy started to come together at thirteen point six and is even better at fourteen grains and smudging is somewhat less . Everything looks safe as far as pressure so I tried loading one round with 14.2 grains . After firing the smudging is quite noticably less though there is some still visible on the body .

All that brings me to the question , maybe two about how 2400 acts . With the lessening of the smudge trails on the case body is it a safe bet to go to 14.4 grains ? Also , how much affect does the temperature affect 2400 ? I keep the ammo warm even though the outside temps are single digits . If you'll allow one more question , When the weather warms up to woodchuck elimination temperatures would the load still be reasonably safe ? The information lists 14.5 grains as 48,500 PSI .

Thanks guys , Jack

If the #2400 you are using was manufactured close to the same time the load data was published, i.e. Hercules Powder Company, rather than Alliant, you should be OK. If you are using current Alliant product, I would try to validate the load in a more current source of data.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010) tops out at 11.5 grains with 55-grain #225646. Have no idea how this compares with a 50-grain jacketed. Pressures with the cast loads listed are below 30,000 cup, so you have some "wiggle room".

My thought is if the smoke trails on the case body decreasing is a sign the powder is reaching a point the case is being sealed , that is a good thing . The primers still look normal and I'm still under what the old data shows . Modern data would be nice , but they seem more concerned with all the velocity the case can give . I really don't need everything it can give Hornet-ish velocities and cases the tumbler can clean easy with good accuracy ... I'll be good .

Jack

Jack, technically modern data is no better or worse than old data. The data published AT THE TIME the powder was produced is the most accurate. That being said, I've still got Herc 2400 in steel cans (when's the last time you saw those) and new Alliant 2400 and I find very little difference between the two. Every lot of powder is slightly different than the last, and my 2400 manufactured decades apart are still very similar.

As to your next question, I haven't found 2400 to be particularly temp sensitive or peaky in pressure, but every powder has its limits. I think your 14.2 and 14.4 grain loads will be fine based on the info you provided. Why don't you let your rifle and cartridges cool to outside temps and run a test? Then you'd know for sure.

That's a good idea singleshot , though I really only expect to use the TNT bullets for warm weather . It isn't completely out of the question to shoot a few when it's five degrees out .

It's good to know it's reasonably stable but win , loose or draw I'll probably keep the limit at fourteen point five grains . With the diminishing smudge trail down the side of the case I think it's telling me it's coming to a pressure that at least seals the brass . If the accuracy stays good my hope it this CZ LUX rifle will make a good walk-around chuck rifle this spring .

Thanks guys , Jack

Jack, how old is the brass and have you annealed it? If you are just getting a neck seal and this is not hard brass you have room to move up.

Attachment 96728

Cans like this? This is my first attempt at posting a picture. Hope it works

That's very old powder, maybe 50 years old. I don't know for sure when they quit using those pinch top tins but its been a long time. If you see a rust colored dust coming off the powder when you pour it it is showing signs of breaking down. If no red dust use it up.

i gave 2400 a go in my ar 15 .223 a couple of weeks ago with good results i was only using 10 grains and it was a tad soft but a nice round for alot of shots , i put 50 rounds through and did not notice any smudging

Jack,
How was the accuracy and how fast ? Thanks,Gerry.

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Originally Posted by gerrycan

Jack,
How was the accuracy and how fast ? Thanks,Gerry.

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hi.....no clue and no clue

it was definitely softer than than the ggg surplus i also shot , i did have a quick accuracy test at first and was doing about an inch at 100 yards with the odd flyer but it was a brand new gun and it was the first ever couple of shots through it. so i pulled the scope off and thought it would be in my intrest to fire 100 rounds through in rapid succession. all i can say is they were supersonic my uneducated guess would be around the 2000 fps mark but hey i didnt have a stopwatch to work it out

im sure you get to the range alot more than me so if you work out a good load let me know as 2400 is a great way of keeping the cost down since its cheaper then most rifle powder over here and you use half the amount of cfe or varget

i use it in 26 grains in my 308 with pin hole groups but dont ask my velocity and im hoping 10 grains behind a 200 grain CB will make a good subsonic load

Jack
yes I agree that less smudging is indicating that the case is sealing the chamber
and
no I have never had any issues with 2400 either old or new stock with either old or new load data....but as its has been suggested its worth a look a the newer data to be sure
and
no I have never had any issues with 2400 as it relates to air temperature
atr

Attachment 96758

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bullshop

That's very old powder, maybe 50 years old. I don't know for sure when they quit using those pinch top tins but its been a long time. If you see a rust colored dust coming off the powder when you pour it it is showing signs of breaking down. If no red dust use it up.

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Got a good bit of Hercules powders in those cans. Haven't run into the red death yet. But I do keep a check on it. Not sure how this Hodgdon is either, but got a bunch of it, too. Shoots good.

Did someone mention old cans of 2400?

A stash I found online a few weeks ago and bought cheap:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8...psxxyax6nn.jpg

Have shot from several of the opened cans with good results; I have not yet opened any of the sealed cans. No use unsealing it. I might end up selling to a collector for more than a new can of powder would cost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C. Latch

Did someone mention old cans of 2400?

A stash I found online a few weeks ago and bought cheap:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8...psxxyax6nn.jpg

Have shot from several of the opened cans with good results; I have not yet opened any of the sealed cans. No use unsealing it. I might end up selling to a collector for more than a new can of powder would cost.

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Dang. I'm jealous.

I've got a 1/2 full canister of Red Dot just like that larger one in the photo and it's still looking okay. No rust.

Wayne , the brass is from the last twenty-five years it has been annealed before I started this testing . The data I have dates to 1992 and the powder I have is the new stuff . I was going to cease going up with the charge at 14.5 but you think I have room to move up some ??

Jack