Lubesizer alignment questions.

I purchased a Lyman 450 here as being misaligned. So I bolted it down and put my .357 sizer in it. Using my RCBS 38-150-SWC bullets and a good fitting top punch, i sized some for assessment. I can’t tell that it’s misaligned at all. The bullets don’t show more sizing on one side, and the driving bands are all even. Now, this is with my calibrated eye.

The sizer has some play in all the joints, and when brought down it doesn’t come down perfectly centered, being more forward than rearward, but when the top punch engages the bullet, it keeps the play centered it seems.

I have another sizer that is newer, but still a 450 with the old style handles. I can use it for comparisons.

Is there something else I should be looking for? Will a larger or smaller bullet show any misalignment more?

Thanks in advance.

Between the top punch fitting, a little slop, and the boolit going straight down into the die body,
I don't see how it would matter.

If it was out of alignment much, I think you'd see nose damage as the top punch tried to sort of make
the boolit go around a corner as it went into the die.

I think a shorter boolit would be more inclined to have issues with miss alignment than a long one.
But if the driving bands get sized evenly as the boolit goes straight down, and there is no nose damage--- I'd call it good.

As far as slop I took some 1/4" ID Stainless tubing and cut it to fit between the bolts on the flat bars. Spacing it out to where is should be. I found the previous owner had been pulling sideways a bit and this caused the slop. The flat bars do bend if abused.

Thanks Ed. I can see how it would be hard to deal with using a flat punch, but I rarely use one as I have punches that fit all my bullets except the ranchdog 44.

I probably use it to make a mess of 45 auto bullets as the lube that’s in it will likely perform best there. No reason to waste.

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Have two, one that I converted from the new style handle to the old style. The gray one was given to me and a wreck that I rebuilt. I’ve never seen anything out of alignment other than slop in the handle bolts. Machined cast iron and steel is pretty much unbendable. Added a piece of aluminum plate on the oak base to transfer the heat from the heater to both machines. Works swell. Use one for 45 and the other for 30 cal.

I use a flat nose punch for swc's and other flat nose boolits. Also don't tighten the set screw for the punch. Instead put a dab of lube on the stem and press it into the ram, the lube will hold it in place but still let it float enough to let it center it's self.

As a rule, at their best, cast bullets aren't truly precise projectiles. I know the limits of cast bullets (AND my somewhat erratic shooting skills). Anyone demanding the highest precision bullets for their shaky, hand-held pistols and hunting rifles should be buying jacketed stuff made on massive and very expensive machines.

I haven't seen a lot of Lyman's Lubrasizers so I have no great personal knowledge of misalignment but I question that it's much of a problem for most of us. I believe the perceived misalignment we read about is mostly in some people's misapprehensions about how little the somewhat loose fitting lever system of a lubricator-sizer affects the end result; those little machines are as preise and rigidly built as market prices will allow and they do a VERY good job.

Few bullets could be seriously affected by the normal loose joints. Those simple devices are loose enough to allow bullets to self-center when sizing, they're not made to jam the floating parts into some kind of meaningless super alignment to make B.R. grade cast bullets.

YMMV.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

SNIP>>>

I think a shorter boolit would be more inclined to have issues with miss alignment than a long one.
But if the driving bands get sized evenly as the boolit goes straight down, and there is no nose damage--- I'd call it good.

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Actually, with the design of the Lyman 450/4500, it's the opposite. Long skinny boolits (like 30 cal that are 180gr or heavier) are more subject to bending, creating poor runout when seated.

What happens is, if the ram is worn and now is sloppy fitting, the linkage putting downward force on the ram starts out pushing one way, than as the ram is pushed down a bit, it shifts pressure and pushes it the other way. BTW, that action is what prematurely wears the cast iron housing of the 450/4500 to create that slop. Now, this is beyond any original misalignment when the press was new...which would just exacerbate the problem. I think there is a thread somewhere, called "Bent Boolits"?

With that said, I've owned 3 different 450 presses, all had issues with long rifle boolits, but would size pistol boolits just fine. Two of the 450 presses I had, were misaligned as the OP described, the other one seemed perfect, but all were "loose". This is why I switched to the Lyman 45 presses (I've had several) and created a stronger linkage/handle for them.

I will have to try some rifle bullets. I primarily want it for pistol bullets. The only rifle bullets I use currently are the Lyman 31141 and the lee 309-150-F

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Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe

Actually, with the design of the Lyman 450/4500, it's the opposite. Long skinny boolits (like 30 cal that are 180gr or heavier) are more subject to bending, creating poor runout when seated.

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Seems to me the real "problem" with short bullets occurs when the bullets are canted from the start and don't have enough leverage to straighten themselves out as they enter the "H" die.

I ran a lot of Lyman's quite long 311299 (205 gr.) bullets sized to .308" through my DCM 03A3. They shot well and I never saw any evidence of bending.

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What happens is, if the ram is worn and now is sloppy fitting, the linkage putting downward force on the ram starts out pushing one way, than as the ram is pushed down a bit, it shifts pressure and pushes it the other way.

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The well-worn measurements of my old (kept clean and well oiled) 450 shows about 2 thou of loose feeling ram slop. It may be destroying a bit of pure accuracy but I can't see it and it hasn't shown up on paper.

I think it was 1969 when Lyman started production of the 450. I really liked the new "split" lever system so I quickly sold my old 45 and got a new 450; I've never had any reason to look back.

(I know some heavy fisted users have broken the 450's lever at the toggle link pin holes but that's hardly the tool's fault. Seems some people can damage an anvil with a soup spoon!)

I turned the ram around, and the misalignment was almost completely gone. I might just drill and tap another hole on that side for the top punch. Guess I could do that dab of lube on the top punch thing.