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This was under the tree yesterday -- all appear to be unused, from an estate sale. Not sure what they went for, but I'm told it wasn't cheap. Anybody used them or can give me more info?
Thanks,
Josh
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I think you may have something there that shotgun shooters love,maybe pretty collectible.
Maybe they were used in black powder loads in shotguns?
0802:
Just what they look like and what it says on the box: !00 (plus a few extras?) 12-ga. unprimed paper shotshells made by/for Alcan. They were a big supplier/distributor of shotshells, wads, primers, etc., in the 1960s, as a look at the older Handloaders Digests and early Ideal Shotshell handbooks will show. Nice to have, but not terribly pricey (except maybe on eBay).
floodgate
I thought I might be of some help here but unfortunately... no.
I have shotshell loading data going back at least 30 years and have loads for Federal paper in old data but nothing for Alcan.
I was thinking my old Lyman manual had Alcan hulls but only Alcan wads.
If you are going to keep them as collectibles - no problem. If you plan to load and shoot them with anything other than blackpowder or equivalent then best to find correct recipes.
Sorry I couldn't help.
Longbow
I have a lot of ALCAN data, but it's all for ALCAN powders. Can't get that anymore either. If you want to load them (I wouldn't, I'd just keep them as memorabilia), I can look through my old Herter's manual, maybe find something there. Alcan supplied most of Herter's shells, but not Herter's wads.
DC
I have an old Lyman book that shows some loads for "Alcan Trapmax and Skeetmax paper target L-4 cases".
It looks like they take a 209 size primer....a couple of loads recommend "Remington 97*"(the book has a star, not an asterisk) primers which are also used in some WW and Fed. hulls. It shows two different Alcan primers..."Alcan 220 Max-Fire" and "Alcan WW209F".
All of the 1 1/8oz. loads use Alcan components exclusively. The only recommended load that you may be able to get components off the shelf for is:
1 1/4oz. shot -- 21.0gr. 700X -- Rem. 97* primer -- Rem. Power Piston #W23694 --
for 1215 fps.
This book also recommends Alcan wads in Fed. paper hulls and in Rem. hulls with fiber base wads (not the AA copy target hulls ), so it appears the inside dia. is the same, but the one load is see with the same wad in a Fed. hull shows .5gr. less SR7625 powder in the Alcan hull for the same vel., so looks like the case volumn is less.
Maybe this will give you a place to start if you really want to load them.
As a side note, I recall an article in Handloader magazine by Ross Seifried about loading for guns with Damascus barrels. I don't remember specific loads, but he used Fed. paper hulls and SR7625 powder and claimed the pressures were within the limits of the black powder guns.
Jerry
Thanks for all the info -- I don't plan on loading them, at least not until the commies come over the hill.
They're not paper hulls -- I think they might be aluminum. Someone told me they are brass, but I don't think so. I've not had any time to really check them out.
I have some loads listed on Alcan wad chart that was in a sack of wads. If wanted, I'll try to scan and post
Y2K -- that would be great.
Thanks,
Josh
Gonna try to post some pics.
See if this is valuable to you.
Pepe Ray
Alcan primers. Ive got 500 220 Max-fire primers. Box sayes 209 size manufactured by Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi, Inc Alton, Ill Old treasures ?
Here are some scans(I hope) that I took. Also, looking at Steve's pages, he lists some Alcan powders and their burn rates.
OK, that's not going to work---I can e-mail them to someone who can post them. Sure glad I'm 'puter DUMB!
I believe they are from the late 50's or early 60's and the bodies are made out of zinc with the normal brass head. I don't remember any loads, but do remember they needed a special 11ga. cardboard over shot wad. I am at work now, but will check to see if I have any data this evening. If I remember, the big problem was the mouths would crack after only a few loads.
After reading the instructions (book), I'll try to post again.
I checked, and couldn't find any data for Alcan zinc shells, sorry. All the data I have for Alcan wads and powder is for paper or plastic shells.
I did find some info about Alcan Max Fire primers: Alcan number 57 or 157 were for the older Remington shells that took the slightly smaller Rem. 97 primer. The Alcan number 109 or 209 were for shells that took the Winchester 209 size primer.
You're correct, in that the shells are not aluminum nor brass.
I've quite a bit more info (page 2) on my desk top,but can't remember how I posted page #1 earlier. I've been stumbeling around this response page, unable to find a link to move the folder from DT to this post.
I'm guilty, I feel like I'm in a room full of doors without door knobs.
Perhaps someone here can show me. I prefer to not be required to JOIN an on line photo album.
Pepe Ray WHOOPS!!!!! I found it!! I included a Zipped file as I don't know what you need to view the page.
How do I view the thumbnails that Y2K and Pepe Ray posted large enough to read them?
DC
Wellll-----,
The Zip file I loaded will enlarge many times but not clear up to a useful state.
Some of the print is large enough for you to tell if you think you want all the details. If you don't know more than I do about electronic transmission of pictures , we're in trouble.
Suggestions??
Pepe Ray
The only way I know is to put your photos on a host like Photobucket, then "insert image".Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe Ray
DC
I quess that everthing has been said. But Here is my info. Those are Zinc hulls. DO NOT RELOAD! if you want to keep your eyes, and gun. Over the time that those old hulls were made, the structure of the metal has deteriorated to the point that they are only good for show, and tell. They were sold by herters, and could buy direct from Alcan. They used the standard 209 primer. You could load about any load, that you could, in a brass, and or paper. The wads used were made by host of manufactures. We used Winchester wads made for Brass Shells. They are hulls are larger in I.D. than standard paper hulls. Wads for these hulls, and brass ones can still be purchased from Circle Fly.com In looking at my fathers loading journals, he had the following loads for that hull, as well as the Brass one. 3drm Equiv. 21grs.red dot,17grs Alcan Super M. 3.250 23.5grs Dupont P-5060 I have an abundance of loads for old time Shot shell loads, If anyone is Interested, Carl