New to me 1885 Miroku 38-55 mold advice needed

New member of the single shot club here as I just purchased a Winchester Limited Series Traditional Hunter in 38-55. It sure is difficult to find definitive info on these. Serial number 33 which may be from the last batch from what I read. This is the 28" octagon barrel model. I've always wanted a falling block and wanted the lighter shooting 38-55. This gun came with the Lee Shaver rear Soule sight with the Hadley eyecup and a Lyman 17 front sight, so is suitable for the 200 yard range at my gun club where 99% of my shooting will be.

Getting reloading supplies in these troubling times is difficult. My order has been placed for Starline short brass as that is all that is available. RCBS cowboy dies ordered and also a .378 sizer die. My bore slugs just a bit under .369X.377, probably closer to .3765. A .379 bullet in some old thick brass wouldn't chamber when I was visiting a gunsmith old timer who shoots the vintage real Winchesters. I measured a 1-18 twist.

New molds of course are hard to come by at this time and cost a fortune. I would probably be happy with the Lee 250gr but don't want to pay $100 for a Lee. Looking around and seeing advice with a lot of people from here took me to the Accurate Mold site. I am posting here rather than the mold sub forum as I saw more discussions of this gun here and not the more common lever guns. I have read that this is an accurate gun but I may not know for a time as I try to get it up and running.

The Accurate site is quite daunting as there are so many molds to choose from. Ones that have sold more would seem to be a good start, but as there are so many more lever guns around, maybe that is not the best advice and hence my post here. I won't be competing or shooting more than a couple hundred a year so thought a 2 cavity aluminum cut with 2 different cavities would be a nice start. My posting reason is a question to the more knowledgeable about my possible choices:

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=38-255B

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=38-285D

I thought about these at a .378 minimum diameter and cast of mostly #2 and WW mixed with maybe 25% soft lead and kept in the 1100-1300 fps range. I hoped some single shot guys would have a bit more insight into this. All molds are scarce and expensive now, so I thought now is the time perhaps to go up a notch especially now that I upped the gun purchase a notch too for me personally.
Thanks for any info
Steve

Hi Steve, I think you bought the rifle I have been looking at for some time at Clelands gun shop. You got a great deal on that as the rear sight is nearly a $ 500 sight alone. As far as the Lee mold, I have one but it is at a friends shop and if I can get it back I will sell it to you cheap. I already have a good bunch of the boolits probably a lifetime supply. Glad someone that will use the rifle got it ! My eyesight is what kept me from buying it.

Jedman

Thanks Jedman, and you are correct on the gun. It is however the cheaper $260 Lee Shaver rear with the $85 eyecup so "only" a $350 rear sight. Ive wanted a falling block for 30 years but couldn't bring myself to spend the bucks. I only went to the store getting a hammer spring for my son's .357 and saw the 38-55 and temptation overcame me. That gun was a consignment sale and I offered $100 less than the price on the tag and the seller accepted. It is still the most expensive gun I have purchased, but $400 worth of front and rear sites sold me.

And thanks for the offer on the Lee mold. I have read that they shoot great out of this gun. I would gladly buy it from you. That would change my mold choices if I wanted to try something fancier and get me shooting and have a baseline too. One needs a couple choices per caliber too of course. Thanks much.

i have the same gun in 38/55 i shoot the lyman 335 bullet with blackpowder it works great --wade

I have had good luck with this bullet:

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...-cavity-gc-rd/

They actually have them in stock at the moment in gas checked and plain base. The one I use is the Ranch Dog gas check version with the tumble lube grooves instead of the traditional lube grooves but all other measurements are the same. It is the most accurate bullet I have tried in my Winchester Trapper Limited Edition. It edges out the Lee 250 grain by just a bit accuracy wise.

I bird-dogged the same gun for my Dad in .32-40, and it's just plain scary accurate - no "accurate for cast" caveat on that one.

Best advice I can give is to do a chamber slug to figure out what you need for a nose shape. Note that the 255 grain mold you listed is stepped down - presumably to clear a shorter/tighter throat. The 285 grainer moves that diameter forward a bit more, but then, with straight cases, you can always seat deeper if you need to.

You've got the 18" twist, which I recall as being the faster twist the .38-55 has trended to in recent years to enable longer range ability to knock over silhouettes with 300+ grainers, so presumably there's room.

I'm a big fan of Tom's molds - especially in brass. You won't regret the purchase if you give him good intel.

Thanks for the advice on the nose shape on the 255. The step down matches the .369 bore so I was considering the front to be a bore rider and to help alignment when chambering especially as the short brass is all that I could find. If wisdom is to go full size I will take that and any advice.

No bore cast, but when supplies arrive I do plan on seeing how far away the lands are. I do have a handful of the Lyman 379248 bullets and 1 Lyman 325 gr to measure things up a bit. An old acquaintance made me an apparatus resembling a Sinclair tool where one uses a case with a loose fitting bullet and then pushes it forward to engage the rifling and then retract and measure. Of course, this needs done with each bullet, but preliminary measurements will give an idea.

Do you have a dial indicator?
Two easy to take measurements will tell you (for all bullets) where the rifling starts in front of the chamber.

Slide any bullet (no cartridge) into the chamber and up into the rifling very lightly. Use the dial indicator to measure from the breach face to the bottom of the bullet. Write it down.
Remove the bullet.
Measure the bullet from the bullet base up to the marks the rifling left on the bullet nose. They could be faint.
Write it down.
Add the the two measurements.
You now know for all bullets, the distance from the base of the loaded round to the start of the rifling.

Pretty much the same concept with the homemade tool. Mine resembles the Hornady made one. Quite handy for playing around with OAL.

The .378 sizer die should make your bullets fit well, and also chamber without any issue. The newer 1885's seem to have tighter chambers than older guns do in .38-55 caliber.
The 1:18" twist will be the limiting factor for bullets, and likely it will shoot better with bullets of 260 gr. or lighter, and not the heavy 300 gr. bullets used in .38-55's with barrels having 1:12"- 1:15" twist rates.
When I set up a cartridge to check OAL and bullet seating depth I size the case and seat a bullet out long. Then I just bump the case enough to remove the bell I put on the mouth to seat the bullet. This way the bullet can move easily when chambered. I then chamber the case and push it in until I can close the action. Then open the action and don't pull the case out. Instead push a cleaning rod down the barrel to push it out so the bullet wont move when extracted.
After measuring OAL you should be able to load a cartridge and check that it chambers easily. Then all can be loaded to the same length and you're set.

It is interesting that many others have mentioned the heavy bullets in this twist. That is why I included the 285 in my original post. I’m not interested at first try to push the envelope, but if I did order a custom mold, the 285 isn’t that much into the heavy range and could be interesting.

I thought I might get some info into the different shaped lube grooves on that 285. They are rounded and differ from the other molds. It looks as though it would fill out easier.

For just fun shooting as you have described, a 285 grn bullet should do all that you need.

15 twist barrels are good up to 330 grn bullets. 12 twist rifles are really target rifles or specialty long range type rifles. The longer 355- 365 grn bullets will be stabilized depending on their design. They take a lot more work and understanding to bullet weight.
As far as lube groove shape. No difference. Cast well filled out bullets and no one will every have reason to know.

Have fun!

I have a Win Miroku 38/55 with a Marlbes Tang sight and a small bead front, is scary accurate with the lee 255 gr that comes out 265 gr with my alloy of half wheel weights, half soft lead. The lyman mold comes in at 338 gr with the same alloy, both bullets shoot very well, the heaviers bullet shoots better at longer ranges, past 200yds. I use IMR 4198 in my loads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by koger

I have a Win Miroku 38/55 with a Marlbes Tang sight and a small bead front, is scary accurate with the lee 255 gr that comes out 265 gr with my alloy of half wheel weights, half soft lead. The lyman mold comes in at 338 gr with the same alloy, both bullets shoot very well, the heaviers bullet shoots better at longer ranges, past 200yds. I use IMR 4198 in my loads.

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I am trying to find that Lee bullet mold and I thought that ww/soft 50-50 at about 1200 would be great too. I’ve waited 25 years for a falling block, so a couple months more won’t be too hard

Really depends on how far and how fast you push the 285 gr. bullets. If you're going to keep them down around 1200 fps, then they likely wont be an issue at 300 yds. or less. But with a slower bullet, and slower twist rate, plus the weight, they might begin to lose accuracy if you shot them out to 500 yds. or more. At longer distances you'd need to push them a little faster to keep them stabilized out further.

No luck on buying a mold. I didn’t think this caliber was that rare. I borrowed a Lyman 379248 that got me started, but that mold is just a bit off. 377-378 and a bit out of round. Nose a bit fatter than base. Straight as cast and tumble lubed at a bit over 1200fps got me on paper at just under 3” at 100 yards. Improvement needed, but a starting point.

So, I was at the Accurate Molds website getting info to order a mold. I was thinking of a double cavity aluminum mold with two different bullets in it. Being a single shot, I wasn’t after a crimp groove or even a front driving band. Advice needed on these;

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-250C

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-285H

Or these 285s with a front band or the one with round lube grooves that looks interesting.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-285I

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-285D

I was thinking minimum .378 and 20:1 alloy. 2 different weights to play with. Any negative advice before I order?
Thanks for any insights.

That sounds like a plan to me, good idea.

The 285 gr. isn't that much heavier, but as I mentioned before, if you choose to buy it and shoot it in your 1:18" twist barrel you'll need to increase the velocity of your load to make the heavy bullet work well in the 18" twist. You can shoot lighter bullets in a fast twist a lot easier than trying to get heavy bullets to shoot well in a slow twist.
I'd suggest that if you buy Tom's Accurate mold that you step up to brass or iron blocks. They're more money, but they'll last forever, and the bullets will drop so much easier, and never have sprue plate galling like aluminum can.

Okay, Marlin man you talked me into it so I ordered an iron mold for an extra $50. I got 250 and 285 designs in the same mold to have a variety.

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=38-285D

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=38-250C

No driving band or crimp groove as it is for a single shot. Size preference was .379" plus or minus .001 as gun is .3765 and I have a .378 sizer. Hoping for as cast coming out at .378-.379.

Ive been looking for 3 months for even a Lee mold, and the Lyman 378248 I borrowed throws a bit under .378. Wait is 12 weeks, so might as well do it right.

As an aside on those Marlins like in your name, I have a couple. One is a 1952 30-30 rifle version that is NOT drilled and tapped and wears a Lyman receiver sight. The other is an 1894CL from the mid 80s in 25-20 wearing a Williams peep. Both love lead and shoot wonderfully. Thanks for the input.

Having both in one mold is a better idea. At least if one doesn't work as well you wont end up with a mold you don't use.
My Marlins anymore are mostly Marlin Ballard single shots. I do still have three 1881's in two .40-60 and one .45-70 caliber, 1893 takedown in .25-36M, and a deluxe 1894 in .25-20M.