Heat treat oven and mill - need advice

My house has standard 200 amp service.

I have an Abne hor./vert. mill. It has a 3 phase motor. I beleive it is a 5 horse motor. I do not have a converter.

Suggestions I have had so far are:
-Get 3 phase to the house. $9,000 from the power company.
-Get a second 200 amp service to the garage with sub panel and a converter $4-5,000. Maybe a more.
-Get a single phase motor for the mill and run a single phase line from the panel in the house to the garage.

I am also building a side by side heat treat oven and temper oven. I am lacking one part for both: the A1 Kanthol wire. 2300 max temp. Does anyone have a source?
I have the components to set it up 220. Again I have the problem with no 220 service to the garage. Should I set them up 110?

Few pics.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects006.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects008.jpg

Just a set up shot to give an idea how things are arranged
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects009.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects010.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects013.jpg

Motor housing cover
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...rojects011.jpg

If it was me . . . . . .

I'd get 220V service out to the garage.
Just a little 60A sub-panel fed from the house will do.

You look pretty handy. Make yourself a phase generator. Prints are on the net, or I can find 'ya some. Should only cost a couple hundred $$.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html

The heater resistance wire should be available from any kiln supplier. Read up on it as it's very restrictive on length x voltage.

OK,
1) Your heater(s) can only safely run 1800watts at 120V. Yes, you can use the entire 20A, but it's unsafe.
2) You'll be hard pressed finding a single-phase motor at 5hp. Even 3hp will be expensive. You loose a LOT of torque going to single phase.

'da Kid

In my limited experience, the only 5 hp milling machines I have seen are full-sized toolroom machines. The one-ton-plus tilt-head 3-phase knee mills I've seen so far have been 2 hp. Your mill looks smaller than my 2 hp, 3 phase BeaverPAL mill. Can't you find a manufacturer's rating plate on the motor?

In general I think the best solution to running a tilt-head knee mill in a private workshop is to fit a single-phase motor made for one of the Chinese mills. I happen to have 3-phase power for the air conditioning, so all of my motors of more than 0.75 hp are 3-phase, but that option isn't practical for most people.

Thanks Kid, good ideas.

Installed a variable frequency drive ($150 new) on my 2 hp, 3 phase surface grinder and like it much better than my homemade 3 phase converter (using a slave motor) on the Bridgeport mill. VFDs have come down in price, but one for a 5 horse maybe a little too much $. Check it out.

i had the same problem with my mill. i found a used addaphase and instead
of hooking it to the mill, i hooked it up to a 10 hp 3phase motor that made it a
rotary addaphase. acording my research i can now run up to 10 motors of 10 hp
or smaller. u cannot run your motors to constant full torque on a addaphase. u have to derate them. 3 phase motors are cheap compared to split phase. motor rewind shops usealy have stacks of them for 20 to 25 bucks apiece. i converted my big
aircompressor to 3 phase power. the more motors u use on the rotary addaphase
the smoother it gets.jb

Run 220 to the garage and get a VFD like Lastmanout mentioned. I have one on a Bridgeport and its great. Having variable speed adds a lot more flexability to the mill

I did a little checking and the Abene is big enough that a Rotary converter may be a better option. 5hp spindle motor and 2hp feed motor. As you go up in power the cost on the VFD goes up pretty fast. In the 3hp and smaller range they are very reasonable.

Just did a quick search and found a 10hp rotary for $528.00 where as a 10hp VFD is $999.00

45 & 30-30

Check with your local motor rewind shop and see if they have a good used three phase 5 to 7hp motor for a reasonable price and then ask them to draw you a diagram of how to wire it up to make a rotary converter using capacitors. You will need a heavy duty switch to turn it on and off also.

I built a five HP one about eight years ago for less than $150.00 buying everything.

It really is not that hard to build one and they work much better than the static converters.

Of course if you have the money you can't beat a VFD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elk hunter

45 & 30-30

Check with your local motor rewind shop and see if they have a good used three phase 5 to 7hp motor for a reasonable price and then ask them to draw you a diagram of how to wire it up to make a rotary converter using capacitors. You will need a heavy duty switch to turn it on and off also.

I built a five HP one about eight years ago for less than $150.00 buying everything.

It really is not that hard to build one and they work much better than the static converters.

Of course if you have the money you can't beat a VFD.

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+1
This can be dirt cheap or kinda pricy.
I got a ued 3 phase motor to use as a converter and start it with a lawn mower pull cord.

I can't say I've had the exact dilemma but, the day before yesterday I managed to drop my bench top lathe on the floor while moving it from one place to the other.
Needless to say it is now in need of replacement. I was wanting to upgrade to something larger anyways but, not out of necessity; rather, out of just wanting to upgrade.

Anyway, I don't have the electrical connections or the electrical saavy to do it myself.
My solution was simply to buy an electrical generator with enough capacity to power one or two of my machines at one time.

The generator I've had my eye on cost about $800.00. That's a whole lot less than five grand and I can turn it off when I'm not using it.
Of course I don't know exactly what your situation will be; whether you'll be set up for every day use but, even still, I doubt that you'll be working on your mill or your oven round the clock.

I'll be replacing my damaged lathe in the next couple of weeks. This is the way I've decided to work around my lack of electrical knowledge.

Other than modifying the muffler on the generator to quiet it down even further. I'm pretty sure it will work out pretty well for me. Perhaps it's something you might consider as a temporary solution; or, maybe not.

HollowPoint

Thank you all for your advice on this. It is going to take me a little bit to absorb all that has been said.

Abene's are a good mill . Go to the Practical Machinist forum for advice on machines, motors, phase convertors, VFD's etc.

I found this looking for some plans for a heat treating oven for building knife's might be something you can use as far as plans ect.Know nothing about milling machines but I was a Fab Welder for 35 yrs and know a little about steel.Here is the website (www.britishblades.com) there is a forum there also.And Practical Machinist ,( www.practicalmachinist.com) is a good site with a gunsmith section on their forum.Dakoma