Civil War muskets

[mustanggt]

I'm interested in buying a Civil War replica rifle. I've been doing some searching but am not finding my questions answered. I have always wanted to take part in re-enactments since I was a kid but don't know of any in my state (WA) so I don't need it for that. I would be happy with any of the models from that era. I've found that people like either of the Italian makers of these replicas so I don't know? What are some of the things I need to look at to help me decide which way to go? Quality, idiosincrasies, good and bad, which is more accurate etc. What are some websites I can go to to find info and comparisons. I look forward to any help you can give me. Thank you

[Shooter]

You don't say breech or muzzle loader.
If you change your mind about re-inacting you will regret not getting a NSSA aproved model.

IF you go for muzzle loader, An Enfield will allow you to play on either side.

A P61 Musketoon is handy and a fun gun for plinking and hunting too, but limits you to artillery, calvery, or sapper roles.

Choose wisely grasshopper.:-D

[gnoahhh]

Depends too an how much money you want to spend. Having fooled with originals, Japanese and Italian repros, and English Parker-Hales during a 20 year career in re-ennacting, I would vote for the Parker-Hale repro of the .577 Enfield as being the best of the lot. I'm led to believe they were/are made to the original Enfield patterns but couldn't swear to it. I've been out of that game long enough that I don't even know if they're still being made. They even used the original style of Enfield rifling with a slight gain twist as I recall. Mine was scary accurate.

[oldhickory]

As stated above, the older English made Parker Hale Enfields are the cream of the crop, and usually worth the lay-out of cash...If you want an Enfield. There's a world of differance between the way an Enfield shoulders and the way a Springfield shoulders. The Enfields have a much higher comb and will push some shooters cheek weld too far up, or bang them on the dheek when they shoulder it. Not a problem with a Springfield type.

For a re-pop Springfield type rifle musket, the Japanese Mirouko, (spl?) are considdered the best of the lot. All you gotta do is find one, I beleive Dixie Gun Works currently has the 1863 type II Springfield rifle muskets made by Mirouko in kit form only.

As for the common Itallian re-pops, I've read more than a few guys comment on the authenticicy and close "feel" of the 1842 Springfield .69 made by Armi Sport, (rifled and smooth bore). Also that the Armi Sport 1862 Confederate Richmond .58s are pretty good shooters, but the stocks are over-sized and "clubby" feeling as most Itallian guns are. Remember though, these are mass produced for re-enactors and may need some tweeking to make good shooters.

Another option, (besides a $2000.00+ original) is a hand made gun made by a number of American craftsmen. They ain't cheap, but they're A-LOT better than any mass produced re-pop. Check out the N-SSA website, www.n-ssa.org they have a swapping and selling/wants forum where some pretty good deals can be had on any of the above mentioned guns+a bunch that weren't mentioned.

Okay, here's a chance for me to show-off! My hand built, American made 1862 C.S.A. Fayetteville rifle. Original parts include all screws, internal lock components, trigger, and sling swivels. Stock by Dunlap, barrel by Whitacre, Lock, hammer, sights, brass, and bayonet stud by Cross.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1705/coltnayah018.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/coltnayah018.jpg/)

[mustanggt]

Thank you for the replies. I would love to re-enact but I have looked for doing it in or near my state and I've not found there to be any. I would like it to be ok for n-ssa. I will check out the direction you have pointed me in. Thanks again.

[quilbilly]

There are some reinactments in Washington State. One is in Port gamble at the norht end of the Kitsap peninsula in July and the other is down by Olympia at Fort Nisqually. I believe there is one down in Vancouver as well at Fort Vancouver. I am not sure what regiment you might be interested in but there is one in the North Puget Sound area that I believe represents the First South Carolina Regiment. I am partial to the Parker Hale 2-band Enfield and used to use it elk hunting until it became too valuable to take our in the NW monsoons. It even shoots patched roundball very well which made it easy to cast for.

[mustanggt]

Thank you. Are there any websites associated with those outfits?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
For a good all around ML Civil War style you might want to consider a Zouave .58.
32 inch barrel and the USED Italian made Navy Arms models are nicely made and rather inexpensive. I use 85 grains 2F in mine with a patched .57 ball. I would hunt any critter I will ever see with it. Will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards.

[bob208]

frist you have to make up your mind what you are doing. shooting n-ssa or reenacting. n-ssa you have to have one that shoots. if just reenacting it just has to make smoke.

if n-ssa you would be better to check with the group you are going to join. some units only let you use certin types of muskets.

before some one says the 63 remington was not issused. it was there is no recored of them being issused to a unit. but there are records of them being captured.

[gnoahhh]

In my experience the Zouaves shoot like greased lightning with patched RB's, but only so-so with Minies. Rate of twist was suited more toward the former. I categorically ignored them when I got into serious re-ennacting because all the "hard cores" made farb jokes about the guys who showed up with them.

If I won the lottery, the one gun I always lusted after was a Harper's Ferry M1855 Rifle.

[oldhickory]

In my experience the Zouaves shoot like greased lightning with patched RB's, but only so-so with Minies. Rate of twist was suited more toward the former. I categorically ignored them when I got into serious re-ennacting because all the "hard cores" made farb jokes about the guys who showed up with them.

If I won the lottery, the one gun I always lusted after was a Harper's Ferry M1855 Rifle.

Looks like James River Armory has them on sale right now, with Hoyt barrels. An original 1855 type I would set you back at least $10,000.00!

http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=32&Itemid=1&TreeId=3

[gnoahhh]

Any barrel that comes out of Bobby Hoyt's shop is top-notch

A friend I had 20 years ago had an 1855 Harper's Ferry rifle that was given to his father when he was a boy back in the 20's by the old Confederate veteran who carried it. Not only is the gun a pristine 2-bander, but it still has an original Maynard priming tape in the lock (the standard warning when handing it to someone was to not cock it!), the guy's original cartridge box, cap box, and sword bayonet. The story goes that the vet was in a Virginia regiment that seized the Arsenal at Harper's Ferry and was able to outfit himself with all of that stuff. After getting wounded at Sharpsburg, he made it home to Sheperdstown, VA (now West Virginia) to convalesce , keeping his gear with him. Events transpired that didn't allow him to return to his unit (or maybe he deserted, who knows), but anyway 60 years later he still had the stuff and gave it to the keen boy who he knew would cherish it. My friend inherited it upon his father's passing. He turned down offers of $15,000 20 years ago. I'm assuming he still has it. I used to kid him that we should get good and drunk some day and take it out and shoot some tin cans with it! The look he would give me spoke volumes of what he thought of that idea! Therein lies the seed of my desire to own one.

[oldhickory]

Is it a type I, or type II? Most type I rifles were destroyed when the fleeing Federals burned the armory 1861 making them rare. All of the original 1855's I see for sale are iron mounted type II's in very good - fine condition and range from $10,000.00 - $15,000.00. A brass mounted type I is pretty much what-ever the seller would demand.

I owned and shot contemporary hand built versions of both using quite a few original parts and Hoyt barrels. Both shot very sweet, but for some reason I prefer the 1862 Fayetteville, Confederate built version using the captured machinery from Harper's Ferry.

The 1855 sword bayonet was a real chore to lug around, they would bounce against the calf of the soldiers leg with every step and were often abandoned when opportunity seemed right, or simply shoved in the belt where it was less cumbersome.

[gnoahhh]

It's a Type I, with brass furniture. The stuff dreams are made of.

[Walt-MT]

Mustang,

In answer to your earlier question (hey, it’s your thread right?):

Washington Civil War Association - http://www.wcwa.net/

Northwest Civil War Council - Oregon - http://www.nwcwc.org/

This ought to get you started, WCWA seems to be "the" clearing house for organizations in the NW.
I don't get to the coast much from Montana. Spokane is the closest event to me and it always seems to conflict with our Living History season opener at Nevada City, MT.

Hope it helps.
Will A

[bob208]

i have a 1841 rifle also known as a mississippi. mine is a navy arms. it was in .58 it shot well but i had hoyt reline it to .54 it is a tack driver now.

i was going to shoot with the first maine heavy art. but i could not aford the uniform at that time. o was invited to shoot with bob hoyt on the css alabama team. but but then i was into the round ball shoots.

[405]

mustang,
I wouldn't let the stigma of the "Zouave" deter you if you can find a good one. They are very practical if your purposes include shooting beyond just the reenactments. Who knows eactly how that name came about but the M1863 Remington "Zouave" had nothing to do with the Zouaves. I think on official Govt procurement docs they were listed as something like- Harper's Ferry Pattern rifle M1863.... with a contract to Remington to make them. Whether or not the Remington M1863s ("Zouaves") were officially issued during the Civil War seems a point only the three band purests could argue. Kinda like.... can't use a Rem M1863 "Zouave" original made in 1863-4 for a reenactment but perfectly fine to use an M1861 3 band musket repro made in Italy two years ago :roll:

[jgr1974]

I am a retired Civil War reenactor and was for nearly 20 years. My advice is to locate a group near you, and then follow there advice on which arm and uniform to buy. Reenacting has become much more organized over the last 10 years. If you are not a part of a group it is sometimes hard to get to participate. Each group usually portrays a certain regiment which has certain uniform and weapon requirements. Unless your unit advises you to do so STAY AWAY from the shorter muskets/rifles aka 2 banders like the zouave, mississippi, or enfield musketoon, as these are authentic weapons of the period modern safety guidlines do not allow these weapons at most events. However they are fine weapons for shooting. If you can find an Antonio Zoli zouave rifle snatch it up because they are fine shooters. The italian "enfields" especially the euroarms are nice solid guns too, however historically are not accurate for the Civil war until spring of 1862. There are several repro muskets appropriate for the outbreak of the war and carry you through to the end of the war. Again it all depends on who and what you portray-union or Confederate. An 1842 springfield or 1855, and possibly an 1861 springfield would work for both sides. Like any gun you can spend as much as you want. Starting at about $350 used to ?. Their are many fine gun makers out there who will build you a custom gun for whatever you want to spend!!!

I hope this helps more than in confuses! If you have any other questions contact me!

[mustanggt]

Thanks so much fellas. I sure appreciate your advice and help. Now I got alot of work ahead of me. Thanks again

[quilbilly]

I don't know how to get in contact with the reinactors here in Washington State. They have brochures but I may have thrown them out. If you are in the Puget Sound area, consider going to the Cascade Mountain Men event at the Evergreen Fairgrounds in Monroe in early March. Absolutely everyone in the Northwest blackpowder community is there, many in costume, and the event is HUGE. That is where you will get so much info on Civil War reinactments that it will make your head spin no to mention all the info about rendezvous's. You may also see the rifle and costume gear you need.
This event is worth coming from a long distance and making a day of it.
If you are a Yankee - forget all this. LOL

[mustanggt]

Quilbilly, You gotta have two sides to have a civil war dontcha???:bigsmyl2: Besides my favorite color is blue!!![smilie=s:

[oldhickory]

mustanggt, let me help you help yourself. Here's a very good book, it's pretty basic, but has a roster of what was issued to who in late 1863 early 1864. "An Introduction To Civil War Arms" by Earl J. Coates and Dean S. Thomas. Another more detailed book is, "The Rifle Musket in Civil War Combat-Reality And Myth" by Earl J. Hess. For a good over-all view of Civil War small arms, "Civil War Firearms" by Joseph G. Bilby is pretty good. These are available from amazon.com and priced very reasonable. They aren't finely detailed books for serious collectors, just well written general over-views.

In the back of Coates's book it will list the 11th. Pa. Inf. as having been issued U.S. 1842 .69 rifled muskets. How-ever, (remember his data is from late 63-early 64) they swapped all .57-.58 weapons on Jan. 2 for uniform arms, indicating the issue weapons in the 11th. Pa. prior to Jan. 2 1863 were a hodge-podge of Springfield, Enfield, and Lorenz rifle muskets, (the 11th. finished the war with the U.S. 1842 .69 rifled muskets). Point being, most early regiments went through at least one change in the small arms they carried during the war. Logistics was a nightmare, a brigade ordinance wagon had to carry .52 Sharps-.54-.577-.58-two different .69 cartridges,( buck&ball for the smoothbores-.69 hollow base for rifled muskets)-and possibly more. Food for thought.

[mustanggt]

oldhickory, thank you for steering me in the right direction. I appreciate it.

[gnoahhh]

And that was just in Yankee regiments. Imagine the headaches that Confederate ordinance officers endured.

[oldhickory]

And that was just in Yankee regiments. Imagine the headaches that Confederate ordinance officers endured.

Actually from what I've read, Col. Gorgas, (chief ordance officer for the C.S.A.) ran things as well as, (and sometimes better) than his Northern counterparts with powder quailty being his biggest head-ache. If you research the ammunition, the Confederacy loaded 10-15% more powder in their ammo than the Union arsenals because of the quality. They also did have to load shotgun ammo for some of the mounted units, and it seems as though they were forever experimenting with boolit size, but other than that, Gorgas ran a very efficiant system right up to the end. Transportation being his biggest concern.

[jgr1974]

Gorgas did a real good job early in the war the Confederacy jus ran out of funds. There is a book called "Guns for cotton" that explains early war southron procurments. The union army sent buyers over to Europe at the same time the Confederacy did.

Union buyers were told to buy all the guns they could to keep them out of southron hands. All of Europe was unloading there surplus junk to the fedeal purchasers. Early funds of the federals were dwindling quickly, thus allowing southron purchasers to get the good stuff!

[oldhickory]

Gorgas did a real good job early in the war the Confederacy jus ran out of funds. There is a book called "Guns for cotton" that explains early war southron procurments. The union army sent buyers over to Europe at the same time the Confederacy did.

Union buyers were told to buy all the guns they could to keep them out of southron hands. All of Europe was unloading there surplus junk to the fedeal purchasers. Early funds of the federals were dwindling quickly, thus allowing southron purchasers to get the good stuff!

And the good stuff the Confederacy got! The Enfields manufactured by the London Armory Company were machine made with strict quality control and every bit as good as, the arms produced by Enfield Lock for British Regulars. (btw, British law forbade the selling of gov't arms, hence no arms were sold to the North or South that were current British production from Enfield Lock. Only commercial Enfields were allowed to be sold. The P53 "Enfield" was at the time what the AK47 is today, widely made and exported around the world)