moisin nagant $100

[hiram]

I was at the Allentown gun show yesterday and a vendor had several crates of M-N in the cost for $100 ea. I said to a guy, a stranger, I didn't think you could get a gun for $100anymore. He replied they are $100 because they are not that good and there was alot of trouble with them. Is this true?--I might see them again.

[Three44s]

If the guy selling them told you that you should have told him that he should then lower the price even more!


They are a good rifle .........

........ and other than abuse in their former lives .............

................. there are no problems with them!

I own five of them ........ and none are for sale ........... they cost me from $69 to 89 depending upon the model. My favorite is my M38 (a carbine) ...... next are my 91/30's ....... and my least favorite but none the less keepers for amature gunsmith adventures ....... my M44's.

The model that I would like that I don't own of the Russian manufactured lot is a 91/59.

I don't have any Finnish variants and those would be nirvana!

Three 44s

[hiram]

The guy who told me about the poor quality was a shopper like me.

[buyobuyo]

Your fellow shopper didn't know what he was taking about. I would have picked one or two up if I had been there. The lowest I've paid/seen here at NM shows is $125.

[madsenshooter]

I got one of the $89 ones from Widener's not long ago. It was 1942 production. It looks pretty good on the outside, arsenal refurbished, but it sure doesn't have a great bore. Out near the muzzle it slugs .316. I suppose it is serviceable. I haven't shot it yet, but for $89, if I could hit within a couple feet at 100yds I'd be happy.

[JIMinPHX]

MNs vary in condition. A lot of them just need a real good cleaning. Others have badly pitted barrels. If you have one that needs cleaning, it may take you a few weeks or even a few months to get all the old cosmoline-like gunk out of there. That stuff can be hardened from many years of storage & very hard to remove. It can be so hard, that it can be mistaken for actually being part of the barrel. If you look up threads on cleaning out that stuff over on the mil surp after dark website, you will find at least a dozen different methods for cleaning that stuff out. Each claims to be the magic boolit, but none really are, in my experience. I do find that each method takes off another layer, & if you use about 10 different ones, then eventually you will get it clean & find out what you really have. The MNs can be a bit of a gamble that way, but I think that even one with a fairly poor barrel is still worth $100. It's a rock strong action. Once it's cleaned up properly, they tend to be fairly smooth.

It is semi-common to find them with a counter bored muzzle. This was done to get rid of worn out parts of the barrel that were caused by rough cleaning from the muzzle end. Some of the counter bored barrels still shoot pretty well.

Those rifles seem a bit heavy when you first pick them up, but when you pull the trigger, that opinion usually changes. The cartridge that they take is fairly snappy & the weight in that rifle is there for a reason.

I find them quite pleasant to shoot with moderate cast loads. The Lee fat .30 mold (Harris design for the SKS) shoots well out of the one that I tried. Winchester sells primed Boxer brass in that caliber. That's what I used. I think that PP also sells brass in that caliber. SB ammo from Cabella's is loaded in Boxer brass too.

If you've never had one, it's a fun new thing to tinker with. If you get lucky, you might end up with a rifle that you actually like. The worst thing that is going to happen is that you end up with a lemon & you sell it for $75. That sounds like a $25 risk to me with a pretty good possible up side. If I were in your shoes, I'd grab one, maybe even 2. Getting 2 would increase your odds of getting a good one.

[richhodg66]

The only thing wrong with them besides being heavy and ugly is the safety is difficult to manipulate, but is about as fool proof as a safety can be. Both mine are suprisingly accurate, and they are extremely simple and rugged. If you try one, I have found the Lyman #311284 to be a great choice for it.

[Freebore]

Condition is everything, especially the barrel. If you can inspect the bore condition before buying. Look for strong rifling especially at the muzzle.

[JDFuchs]

We have a local store that keeps them in stock carbines for $80 and full size for $90 all of them in good shape, just a lot of oil. I have one of each and do love them for random target plinking. The only thing I don't like about them is the availably of brass. Cheep(ish) steel case ammo can be found around hear but Im waiting around till i can find a reasonable supply of brass. You can find brass around but for more $$ then im willing to part with.

[beetle]

I have 3 Mn carbines, and 2 of the 91/30 rifles. All of them are accurate and fun to shoot. My favorite is a Century Arms "sniper" with a reproduction PU scope. It is really a hoot. I have been using the suggested 200 yard target load for military surplus rifles (found in the sticky in the "CB loads/Military Rifles"), and have been very pleased with it. The suggested load for 170-180 grain cast bullets is 16 grains of Hercules (now Alliant) #2400 powder. It is a nice low-recoil mild load, which I am enjoying as I get older. Anyway, the MN's are, dollar or dollar, one of the best values going.

[NickSS]

The MN is a fool proof rifle like most Russian weapons they were designed so that a peasant with no education could use them with little or no training. They are also rugged and reliable. They are not pretty or give the impression of quality manufacture but they do work and work quite well. The Russians used them as front line weapons into the early 50s and they are still in use in various parts of the world. You need to inspect the bores most of the ones I have seen are "arsenal refurbished" From what I have seen that means that they have rifling and if the muzzle was warn from cleaning they were counterbored an inch or two and called good. As all Russian ammo is corrosive many have pitting in the bore however, The preservative the russians used is so tough that you can shoot several hundred rounds through it and clean it for a week or two between trips to the range and not get it all out. However of the six I own they all will shoot around 4 inch groups or less at 100 yards with surplus ammo. With cast bullets I have done better than that. So they are definitely a good rifle and cheap at $100

[Rangefinder]

I've come to believe there are two kinds of shooters: Those who have Mosins, and those who will. They're almost a rite of passage for casters... :D I know I love the heck out of mine. She's a rugged old dog, but never lets me down--ever.

[EMC45]

I killed 2 deer with my 91 (it was free).

[wallenba]

I have three different variants. They cost me about $100 each (except the M38). All shoot well with properly sized cast bullets. They can sometimes be a pig in a poke buy. I like to buy mine from a store such as Dunham's as they deal direct with the importer and I'm not getting one someone wants to get rid of for some reason. There are no guantees with them though.

P.S. The worst of them, an M38 with a .314 bore still shoots 3 inch groups at 100 yds with a lapped out Lee C312-185-R1 mold that drops them at .316, sized to .315. (took some work though)

[wallenba]

Hiram, here is my first target ever with the 'fat bore' M38 at just 50 yards. This is with 12.7 grains of (yes) Trail Boss. Note the vertical stringing. Shaking the rounds prior to loading helped with this a little. Target disk is a 6 inch.

[dualsport]

They are addictive, kinda grow on you. Now I won't be happy 'til I have a real nice Finn for match shooting. Great way to go for a non reloader too, ammo for blasting is relatively cheap.

[MJR007]

Bud's guns:

CEN MOS-NAG M91/30 7.62X54R EX


Model: RI660X Item Condition: Factory New Bud's Item Number: 411540201
*Please Note!! Many of our pictures are stock photo's provided to us by the manufacturer and do not necessarily represent the actual item being purchased. Please verify this picture accurately reflects the product described by the title and description on this page before you place your order.
Price: $92.00 *
*Cash discount price

Additional Charges Apply to
Long Guns Shipped to Hawaii and Alaska



Email a Friend...

[Three44s]

The only thing wrong with them besides being heavy and ugly is the safety is difficult to manipulate, but is about as fool proof as a safety can be. .................................



That safety can be overcome:


http://www.gswagner.com/mosin-nagant/safe/safe.html



After you go there ........ wad around in Mr. Wagner's web site ....... you won't be disappointed!!


Enjoy!


Three 44s

[frkelly74]

Just another piece of info, If you are left handed the bolt of these rifles lends itself to left handed operation very well. I am not , but I saw a shooter who was and had been shooting one for a while, fire his and reach over the top , grab the bolt handle pull it up and back , forward and down without taking the rifle away from his shoulder and very effectively produce a rapid fire string of shots. Ejected empties didn't even seem to hit him in the face. It seemed to be just right.

[dualsport]

I looked at the Bud's Guns sale MNs. It's confusing, the ad says 'Factory New' and also 'arsenal refinished'. The reviews all describe used guns. The refurbs from Century usually look nice but can vary a lot. Anybody know if Bud's has actual 'new' guns?

[maximus]

i just gont one from buds for $94 free shipping, i hope i cant wait to get it.

[azcruiser]

Oldest round still in production 762x54 R that is being used .Think it's good for anything in North
America game wise. Fun to shoot with cast bullets . cheap surplus ammo . Only thing new boxer brass is kind of pricey seen it from 80cents to around a buck a piece . Thats why I pull the military stuff put in 10 to 12 gr trail boss and blast away with cast or re seat the pulled bullets.
About the most fun you can get for 100 bucks and in 10 yrs sell and make money on it . What's not to like .Think of it as a Russian 1903 -A3

[MtGun44]

Bought a mint unissued, unfired 91/30 today for $89.99 out the door. Cleaned the
grease off and out, clearly the bolt face is untouched and the bore is absolutely
a mirror. Gotta slug it.

Outside of the receiver looks like a failed dremel tool project from 8th grade shop class.

Trigger is very nice. Bayonet, two ammo pouches, cleaning kit, split oil-solvent bottle,
dog collar sling included. Wood is very nice, very smooth - unlike many of them.

Bill

[bob208]

i picked up one for $95.00 out the door got the cleaning kit sling oil bottle and bayonet. it is a 91-30.

dont wory if the muzzle is lose most are counterbored.

my thought is any one that does not have a rifle should buy one and at least a case of ammo. and learn how to shoot it.

[Ole]

What's funny to me is you can buy 14 rifles for an ounce of gold. :mrgreen:

JG sales has a sale right now on their K31 Swiss rifles that is tempting me.

[bkbville]

Oldest round still in production 762x54 R that is being used .

8mm mauser is 1888 and .303 is 1889 (7.62x54R is 1891)

I think it's maybe the only one still in active service of a military. (Though it's possible 8mm is as well.)

MN are not only inexpensive to buy, the ammo is quite affordable.

[dnepr]

I killed 2 deer with my 91 (it was free).

mine has 1 deer and one assist , a little rough around the edges but does the job mine was a free rifle also

[MilSurpFan]

They are perfectly good rifles, your fellow shopper was just suffering from a bit of gun snobbery. I have heard the same thing dozens of times at the shows; I've mostly learned to ignore it.

They are cheap because there are huge piles of them on the market, not because they are inferior in any important way. Some wartime rifles are crudely machined on the outside, but the mechanical quality never suffered. Remember, the Germans had overrun the Tula arsenal and were just outside Moscow before being turned back. Considering the situation, the wartime rifle are amazing. Heck, we turned out some pretty shabby 03-A3s and we were operating in comparatively tranquil conditions.

The design is actually pretty complicated and is expensive to build and maintain contrary to the "peasant rifle" myth. There is a lot of machining in there and lots of little fiddly bits such as the follower assembly and the bolt. To me, it is quite surprising they never came up with a better design over nearly 6 decades of production. Look at the French MAS 36 and see what a truly simple (and shockingly effective!) design looks like.


As with any surplus military rifle, condition is important. Some rifles with marginal bores made it through rebuild, so buying in person is preferable. The barrel dimensions can be quite variable also though a good visual inspection should produce a usable rifle regardless of what the barrel slugs at.

If you want non-shooting related information you can check out http://7.62x54r.net/

[Nora]

That safety can be overcome:


http://www.gswagner.com/mosin-nagant/safe/safe.html



After you go there ........ wad around in Mr. Wagner's web site ....... you won't be disappointed!!


Enjoy!


Three 44s

I can't thank you enough for this link! I've modded one my M38's to no end but have not figured any thing yet for an adjustable trigger. Now I've got to try his method. I do something very similar to cheat Timney out of a couple of bucks now and then with the old Mauser sporters but couldn't make the change to suit the M-N.

Nora

[1Shirt]

Pretty slick Nora! Good Idea!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[frkelly74]

They are $100 here again for the refurbished round receiver 91/30 with all the accessories. You can go in and pick one out from racks full of them at On Target in Kalamazoo. I got two 1930's vintage hex receiver rifles for $80 a few years back hoping the value might increase. Even If it doesn't, they are still a fun gun to play with. I let the son in law shoot one of mine and he said "They kick a little don't they?" I just smiled at him. Every now and then I find a few PPU or Win cases for them and put them away for later.

[fatelk]

I have a few too many of them, if that's possible.:) 9 total (far more than any other type), including M28 Fin, 1922 Cossack 91/30, "Instructie" rifle, and a couple M44s. Paid anywhere from $45 to $99, but that's over a couple decades. Definitely a poor man's collection! How else are you going to get an entire collection for the price of one M1 Garand?

Most of them shoot pretty good, but I've never shot cast through them. For the most part they're typical Russian; heavy, clunky, and bulletproof.

[Three44s]

Nora,

You are most welcome!!

And ...... Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!


Three 44s

[oscarflytyer]

Have had a Finn for years. Not shot much as I lost the front sight long ago and just got a replacement. Just bought 3 aresenal reconditions for $249 + tax, all accessories incl - one for me, one for my son and one for my FIL.

Don't expect to load for it anytime soon, instead paying about 20 cents a shot for surplus. Too many other things I want to work up loads for that I can't get ammo for anywhere near that cheap!

[Landric]

If one wants to avoid the rougher finished "war" guns, the easy solution is to purchase a "hex" (actually octagonal) receiver gun. The round receiver replaced the octagonal receiver sometime in the 1930's before the start of hostilities.

Don't forget to spend an additional $99 on a Nagant revolver to go with the Mosin rifle. The Nagant shoots unusual ammunition that isn't super cheap, so the revolvers are cheap. They are worth a lot more than $99 IMO, an interesting design, and well made.

[skeet1]

The Mosin was the first rifle I ever owned and it was the first cartridge I ever reloaded for. It had a Hex receiver and if I remember correctly it was a Tula made in 1917. I paid $7.00 for it 45 years ago. I sold it to a young man as his first rifle about 20 years ago for $7.00. It seamed only right.

Ken

[Three44s]

Ken,

We call that passing the heritage forward! You are a good man!!


Three 44s

[1Shirt]

Ken, Any body that has the "Duke" for his Avatar just can't be all bad! Agree with Three44's!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[oscarflytyer]

Have had a Finn for years. Not shot much as I lost the front sight long ago and just got a replacement. Just bought 3 aresenal reconditions for $249 + tax, all accessories incl - one for me, one for my son and one for my FIL.

Don't expect to load for it anytime soon, instead paying about 20 cents a shot for surplus. Too many other things I want to work up loads for that I can't get ammo for anywhere near that cheap!

BTW - shot the rifles last wkend. The Finn has a true target trigger! It is one of the lightest and crispest triggers I have ever shot. And I have shot some good target rifles competitively.

Looks like I may have to work up a good load for this one!

[nanuk]

oscarflytyer: how does one tell if it is a Finn?

We have a local who has some crates full....

my first MN was bought for $20 it now resides somewhere in a remote cabin with a crate of surplus ammo, for Bear protection.

[johnly]

oscarflytyer: how does one tell if it is a Finn?

We have a local who has some crates full....

my first MN was bought for $20 it now resides somewhere in a remote cabin with a crate of surplus ammo, for Bear protection.

I'd feel safer with a M-N in my hands as compared to a roll of quarters in my pocket.;-)

I have a pair of 91/30s and consider them both a fine weapon and a super value.

John

[C1PNR]

oscarflytyer: how does one tell if it is a Finn?

We have a local who has some crates full....

my first MN was bought for $20 it now resides somewhere in a remote cabin with a crate of surplus ammo, for Bear protection.
The Finns are marked with an SA inside a small box, usually on the barrel shank just in front of the receiver.

The Finns usually, but not always, remodeled the rifles extensively, and you will notice the MUCH nicer trigger once you compare a Russian with a Finn.

I will say, though, that I have a 91/59 that shoots like a house-a-fire! Even with "cheap" surplus.:wink:

[lavenatti]

I've got about a dozen MNs. The prettiest of them are US made (1917) by Remington and Westinghouse. Beautiful walnut stocks, nicely machined and matching serial numbers on the bolt and receiver. These two appear to have never gone overseas and were probably among the half of the rifles built in the US that the russians never paid for.

[RugerFan]

oscarflytyer: how does one tell if it is a Finn?

We have a local who has some crates full....

my first MN was bought for $20 it now resides somewhere in a remote cabin with a crate of surplus ammo, for Bear protection.

I doubt if a Finn would get mixed up in a crate full of Russians, but to answer your question, look for "SA" stamped on the barrel.

(And look here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinIDII.htm)

[Ironnewt]

After WW I, Finland broke away from old Imperial Russia and had within it's borders some Armories and actual factories that made either parts or complete rifles. Using captured/recovered M1891's they "rebuilt" them and turned out some fabulous rifles. In 1939 the USSR decided to annex Estonia, Lithuiania (sp) and Latvia after dividing Poland with Nazi Germany. In December 1939 they invaded Finland and basically got their butt handed to them on a platter. After the nazi's invaded the USSR they (the Finns)were 'allies of convience' with the Axis powers but eventually ended up fighting the Nazi's after the Soviet counter offensives of 1944. Stalin hated their guts.

[VintageRifle]

Biggest thing for me is the bore condition. Unless the rifle has some rare markings, I only try to pick up Mosins with good barrels. I have 3 that I would say have OK barrels. The rest are nice and shiny.

Here are some results from slugging my barrels.


Izhevsk rifles:

1943 Round Receiver:
Lands: .3025"
Grooves: .314"
Bore Condition: Like New

1936 Round Receiver:
Lands: .3005"
Grooves: .314"
Bore Condition: Like New

1943 Round Receiver:
Lands: .302"
Grooves: .3135"
Bore Condition: Like New

1942 Round Receiver:
Lands: .3025"
Grooves: .3145"
Bore Condition: Like New

1943 Round Receiver:
Lands: .3025"
Grooves: .3145"
Bore Condition: Frosted Strong Rifling

1943 Round Receiver:
Lands: .3015"
Grooves: .3145"
Bore Condition: Bright and Shiny. Near Perfect/New.

Tula Rifles:

1938 Round Receiver PM Marked:
Lands: .3015"
Grooves: .314"
Bore Condition: Frosted Strong Rifling

1944 Ex-PU Sniper
Lands: .301"
Grooves: .313"
Bore Condition: Very Good to Excellent. What appears to be minor pitting in a couple of spots, but may just be crud. If it comes out, Excellent+.

1932 Hex Receiver:
Lands: .3015
Grooves: .3140
Bore Condition: Light pitting in grooves. Needs Re-crowned.