My favorite cartridge? .45-70 !

[Jim]

http://fgsp.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/rapine-460-500-rnbr/

I bought a Gibbs Summit back in, I think, '03. An elderly gentleman gave my an old Rapine mold that throws a 500 gr. round nose bore rider. It took awhile to figure things out, but I finally worked up a load for it.

.45-70 Gibbs Summit rifle
.460-500-RNBR boolit, seated to top of first band and Lee Factory crimped
Lithium/graphite lube, tumble applied
49 gr. IMR 7383 milsurp powder
Large magnum rifle primers

This is a stout load. I managed a 1.6 MOA at 50 yds. shooting from a Caldwell Lead Sled. The rifle comes up and off the front rest by about 3 inches on firing. Oddly enough, it only moves the sled back about an inch. The sled is weighted with two 9.25 pound WW pigs bolted to the weight pan.

What strikes me as really odd is, I can shoot this comfortably from a standing position. From a sitting position on the bench without the sled, three or four times and you're done. A friend shot it and told me the recoil is about the same as his .458 Win Mag. I've shot his .458. I think the Win Mag's recoil is much worse. But then, he's about 6'2" and almost three hunnerd. I don't weigh half of what he does.

[Doc Highwall]

Jim, the reason the rifle does not hurt so bad when you are shooting offhand is because your mass does not offer as much resistance and it takes you for a wild ride. When you are shooting it off the bench you are leaning more forward behind the rifle and with more mass directly behind the rifle means the more force you absorb as the gun moves you. Your friend being bigger then you also has more mass behind the rifle, so to move him he has to absorbs more energy before the recoil moves him an equal amount. I will bet you if you have the gun sighted in for yourself that your friend will hit lower on the target then you because his mass offering more resistance and will lower the angle of departure vs yours.

[Jim]

Excellent explanation, Doc! You'z a smart feller!

[Shooter6br]

My days of heavy recoil are over. First i shoot paper with the 45-70. I use 10 g Universal(Unique) no filler with 350 g Ranchdog, in my Ruger NO1 . No recoil. If i need to step it up I would use H322 to get about 1500fps for deer hunting with 20-1 alloy......Just me.......Too many fillings fall out above 1500fps...LOL

[btroj]

And that Doc is why I sight my 45-70 in the way I plan to shoot it. Offhand.
Heavy kickers are a bear off the bench. Much better off with a good set of shooting sticks offhand. Besides, how often do you have a bench on the field?

[Doc Highwall]

I saw a rest for shooting the large double rifles when they are building and regulating them. They stand and are able to rest their forearms while leaning against the rest to steady themselves and the recoil is just like standing with out the movement.

[RobS]

Jim,

Do yourself a favor and if shooting off a bench put a bag of shot between you and the butt of the stock; you'll be a much happier camper.

[Jim]

http://www.eabco.com/CartImages/Caldwell/LeadSledDFT01.gif

This is what I'm using. I have two 9 lb. pigs bolted to the weight pan. With the sled, it comes to around 30 lbs. I have added 2 inches of padding to the back stop to absorb the recoil.
I failed to clarify that I felt heavy recoil shooting offhand, not from the sled. When I'm using the sled, I'm not even on it.

[Three44s]

I always stand up for firing a heavy kicking rifle for the first shot ...........

....... that a ways I have time to slow down before I hit the ground on the flat of my back!!!

A good friend used to use the .338 Win mag ........ until one day he had his back against a tree and was using it to steady himself for long shots on crows.

He sold that rifle ........

....... I would have just cut that tree down!

Best regards

Three 44s

[StrawHat]

The sitting position (as in sitting on the ground cross legged) is another good one for tedting loads. At least it was when I could get into it. Steady but you had a bit of flex when the rifle recoiled. Avoid prone, and limit bench shots. Cross sticks or a single stick can help, if you always use them but they can also cause the reilfe to behave differently from when they are not used or if used in a different way. Consistency goes a long way to accurate shooting.

[JudgeBAC]

I would love to have a set of plans for a stand up bench like Doc described. I saw one in a Guns & Ammo mag several years ago. It was an article on double rifles by Craig Boddington. Searching the net has not turned up any plans so far.

[btroj]

I saw a guy who had a neat idea for a rest that could easily be used standing or sitting. He had a pipe clamp that was on a 3 foot long or so piece of pipe. He used the clamp to hold it at the level he wanted on a post holding the cover on the firing line. The part of the pipe that stuck out had been wound with old carpet until it was 4 to 6 inches in diameter.
Was easy to use standing, was better than offhand, and was soft enough to not mar the finish on the forearm.
This would be a good idea for the heavier kickers.

[1Shirt]

When I was younger (much younger), and hopefully much dumber, I more than once made the statement that "if it had a trigger, I would be willing to shoot it!". I was challanged on that more than once, and as a result got to shoot 458's, 460 Weatherbys, etc, always off hand, and more than one shot to prove something to somebody I guess. Bought my first 375H&H in Alaska ( a used Browning that I wish I still had), and still have two 375's today (a #1Ruger and a CZ), and I also have a #1 Ruger in 45-70 that with full power jacketed loads will rock your socks pretty well. Hope to shoot Africa one more time before I am to old, and this time for Cape Buff, and if that happens it will be with 375 and the CZ. I have no problem shooting heavy rifles off the bench for a couple of shots only, but will go to offhand/sitting after that.
I no longer make dumb statements about being willing to shoot anything, because with age has come the reality that I really don't want to get beat that bad. In the regrets area, I had a 358 Win in a 99 Sav, that had a narrow steel butt plate, and I swear that rifle hurt morel with full power factory loads than anything I had ever shot. Like a dummy I traded that rifle, and many times I wish I had it back, particularly after I saw one at a gun show that wasn't in great shape, and the guy was asking 1,200.00 for it. Of course my #1Ruger in 45-70 is rather lite, and short bbl'ed, and with full power loads will get your attention real quick as well. For offhand practice now with heavy rifles, I am kind of prone to start the day at the range with 25/50 yd. Trail Boss, loads, and after 15-20 of those go up to med loads with 2400, and finish off with 5-10 full power loads and jacketed. I would also like to be doing some load work up and test shooting off of a stand up bench. Have never seen one in use! Great idea.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[nanuk]

with a bit of thinking, I think it would not be too hard to figure out one that can fold up to put in a truck, or back seat of a car, using 2x4 lumber

[bigted]

i built a plywood flat top for the bed of my pickup. it does not go the full length of the bed rather it is about 4 feet long and the width of the p/u bed. i topped this off with a piece of shower liner i had left over from a little honeydew job and screwed 2x2's under the bottom where it would ride along the rails of the bed. this puts me at the level with my rest that im standing and the recoil is lessened by a hundred fold.

this is lite enough that upon getting to my fav rock quarry i put it on top of the bed and have a nice flat surface to shoot from with the tailgate down i also have a big storage spot under the top to put cleaning supplys and ammo as well as my shooting record book with targets and just about anything else i need...great for m/l'er supplys and leaning on the tailgate with a small wooden "fork" made outta a 2x8 gives a spot to ground the butt to load m/l'ers or to clean the bore on any other rifle. nice settup...

a little bulky but how else can i transport a rigid table top that large and at the level i want for comfy shooting standing up. this allows me to shoot wherever i park the pickup. great for the sighting in when ya just dont want to go to the range and put up with all the children shooting bottles and leaving candy wrappers and plastic pop bottles laying around as well as the corresponding questions that the youngsters today ask when there are two or more together...wow i should delete that last as it is showing my cranky age some...ah hell anyone that has read any of my posts knows that im turning into an ornery ol fart i spose.

anyway that what this ol coot did and it works plenty good for me.

[bigted]

ps JIM post pictures of that gibbs summit.......pls?

[Jim]

HERE YA' ARE. (http://fgsp.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/gibbs-summit-45-70-bolt-action-rifle/)

[bigted]

cool looking rifle jim...how long have ya had it and how does it shoot? also are they available or just catch as catch can?

[Jim]

I bought mine in the fall of '02. In the last few years, I can't find one on Gunbroker or any place like that. Apparently, nobody wants to part with them.

I got a 2 MOA group with 500 gr. RN Rapine mold boolits. I'm happy with that. I keep it around in case any Cape Buffalo get in the trash can. Ya' never know, right?

[Jim]

I bought mine in the fall of '02. In the last few years, I can't find one on Gunbroker or any place like that. Apparently, nobody wants to part with them.

I got a 2 MOA group with 500 gr. RN Rapine mold boolits. I'm happy with that. I keep it around in case any Cape Buffalo get in the trash can. Ya' never know, right?