209 primer/No.11 caps or what?

[MaxJon]

Hi all. I am very new to BP rifles/pistols. Just curious as to what is the best form of ignition for the BP rifle. Considering building a custom inline .45 or .50cal. I have read that the 209 primer can be too hot, causing bullet movement before the powder chrarge is completely burnt? The article i read states that a 209 primer will move your ram rod almost 6 inches from the muzzle when fired upon. While a No.11 cap will only move it approx 1 inch. Which is best and most consistent is the question?? I guess with an inline maybe you could several types of breech plugs to suit differing caps and or primer??
Thanks in advance all!!
BB03:castmine::castmine::-?:-?:-?

[corey012778]

I shot both on inlines.
knight usak is my #11 shooting inline (plans on upgrading to 209). win apex 45cal is my 209. really have not noticed an deference in the ignition.

my knight has an very deep and wide, I will call it an powder reservoir breech plug, runs right to the nipple.

win apex, an very narrow flash channel, smaller then an diameter of an toothpick.

I use to own an knight disc (the bolt action), its channel was the same as the win apex.
hope that helps with some of your questions?

here is an idea, have two or more custom breech plugs made, few for 209 and few for #11.

[smoked turkey]

bullbarrel033:
You have asked a good question. I don't profess to have the answer, but I will say that I have used No 11 caps without a problem in my rifles. I have used musket caps as well as 209 primers in my in-lines. I cannot see any problems using no 11 caps. Mine have always gone off, well almost always. I do not load heavy charges of powder so that may have something to do with reliability of no 11s for me. I am a little fumbly with my fingers so I have experienced less difficulty loading musket caps as compared with no 11 caps. That is not to say that they are superior to no 11s, just physically easier to use. The same is true of 209s vs no 11s.

[mooman76]

What type of powder are you planning on using? Some powders are less sensitive and the 209 primer works better. As long as you are designing it, I myself would design different breech plugs to try and it gives you more options.

[MaxJon]

What type of powder are you planning on using? Some powders are less sensitive and the 209 primer works better. As long as you are designing it, I myself would design different breech plugs to try and it gives you more options.

Thanks mooman!
Not sure what powders to use yet, still very much a newbie to these great rifles, and still got a lot to learn. I just figured if i could purchase a barrel/breech plug assembly?? from somewhere?? I could easily thread the outside of it to suit an action i have siitng around going to waste!! Then machine the bolt to suit the nipple and or breech plug.
I emailed a muzzleloader rifle builder here down under about my project consideration and he said he could help me with a barrel but not a breech plug!!
I can only assume he dont like inlines, or wanted to undertake the hole project and charge me a fortune!! I think it would be a good fun paper punchin fun gun!

[45r]

I like my encore ML a lot.I haven't seen a need to find a better ML.The savage ML seems interesting for high performance but my encore has always been able to bring home a deer.They are very easy to clean.It is able to shoot 1 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards using T7 and hornady 300 black sabot loads with 209 primer.I clean barrel every shot and use a spin jag and kadoodle tamping tool.The breech plug is very simple and can be kept clean with a drill bit.

[Maven]

bullbarrel 033, I have several different types of ML's and since two are flintlocks, and thus haven't used anything but Pyrodex RS (not in the flintlocks) and black powder. My Knight Bighorn inline came with several different breech plugs and nipples, which allows me to use #209 shotgun primers (with or without disks), musket caps, and #10 or #11 percussion caps. I've used both the #209 primers and #'s 10 & 11 percussion caps with both Pyro. RS and FFg (both Goex and Wano) with patched RB, home-cast Maxi-Balls, and saboted bullets and found NO difference whatsoever in ignition, point of impact on the target, or accuracy that I could attribute to the source of ignition. In short, primer type made no difference with black powder and Pyrodex, but I don't know whether that would hold for Triple Seven, Blackhorn #209 or some of the other BP substitutes.

[Shooter]

I like my encore ML a lot.I haven't seen a need to find a better ML.The savage ML seems interesting for high performance but my encore has always been able to bring home a deer.They are very easy to clean.It is able to shoot 1 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards using T7 and hornady 300 black sabot loads with 209 primer.I clean barrel every shot and use a spin jag and kadoodle tamping tool.The breech plug is very simple and can be kept clean with a drill bit.

+1 an Encore is not as beautiful as a long rifle, but they work. Plus, you can change barrels.

[10 ga]

If you want to make it "waterproof" and use the BH209 powder you need a closed face (most new model inlines) with 209 or large rifle primer ignition. Some states require "open" (non enclosed) ignition and some even specify #11 cap ignition. If you plan to hunt with it learn the rules where you will be hunting. If you are building a custom gun are you a "smith" or will you parcel out the work? Also to consider is which action type you are considering. Also are you planning to make this a "smokeless" ML? Are you going to have a "traditional" type ML with ramrod thimbles and underbarrel rod or use a pieced or folding loading rod? (you need a solid or threaded rod for cleaning etc...) There are lots of "donor" actions that can be used and do you have any idea what is your starting point. There are so many variables on "building" a custom ML that need to be addressed. Ignition type is just one of many variables. Need more detail to give a thorough answer. PM if you wanna discuss and have detailed reccomendations. 10 ga

[MaxJon]

If you want to make it "waterproof" and use the BH209 powder you need a closed face (most new model inlines) with 209 or large rifle primer ignition. Some states require "open" (non enclosed) ignition and some even specify #11 cap ignition. If you plan to hunt with it learn the rules where you will be hunting. If you are building a custom gun are you a "smith" or will you parcel out the work? Also to consider is which action type you are considering. Also are you planning to make this a "smokeless" ML? Are you going to have a "traditional" type ML with ramrod thimbles and underbarrel rod or use a pieced or folding loading rod? (you need a solid or threaded rod for cleaning etc...) There are lots of "donor" actions that can be used and do you have any idea what is your starting point. There are so many variables on "building" a custom ML that need to be addressed. Ignition type is just one of many variables. Need more detail to give a thorough answer. PM if you wanna discuss and have detailed reccomendations. 10 ga

Thanks 10ga!
I really would like to build a .45 inline with a heavy stainless fast twist barrel for some serious 100yd or better target shooting with long cast slugs! I really like the look of the White Super 91 rifle action. Not sure if they are available here down under?? I have to do some looking around. I have an old Aussie Omark 44 action, (Single shot bolt action .308) Which i am considering using, it has no locking lugs in it. They are set up like the Savage rifles which use a barrel adaptor, all it has is an open thread. So it could make things easier. I Think the thread is a 1 inch X12 or so. I will have to measure it more accurately with the proper tools. Any more tips??:cbpour::cbpour:
Thanks again BB03

[skullmount]

Thanks 10ga!
I really would like to build a .45 inline with a heavy stainless fast twist barrel for some serious 100yd or better target shooting with long cast slugs! I really like the look of the White Super 91 rifle action. Not sure if they are available here down under?? I have to do some looking around. I have an old Aussie Omark 44 action, (Single shot bolt action .308) Which i am considering using, it has no locking lugs in it. They are set up like the Savage rifles which use a barrel adaptor, all it has is an open thread. So it could make things easier. I Think the thread is a 1 inch X12 or so. I will have to measure it more accurately with the proper tools. Any more tips??:cbpour::cbpour:
Thanks again BB03

The White Super 91 in .451 has a 20 twist....what are the regulations as far as getting a muzzleloader shipped downunder ???

[MaxJon]

The White Super 91 in .451 has a 20 twist....what are the regulations as far as getting a muzzleloader shipped downunder ???
Not sure Skullmount, be easier if i could find one here tho, if i decide to go that way.