What will I need??????????

[mattbowen]

I am not new to reloading (modern powder) but have never done any black powder. I do know that BP is measured in volume in stead of weight and that i need to get a drop tube but will I need to get a different type of scale? What type of compression die would recommended? I will be loading for 45LC and 45/70.:killingpc

Thanks

Matt

[WILCO]

http://www.blackpowderspg.com/primer.html

Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Primer

"Offers excellent information for blackpowder enthusiasts. Contains 124 pages, 60 photos, charts, tips and detailed reloading information. Sources for reloading equipment and accessories are also included."

[cajun shooter]

The only time that BP loads by volume is when you are loading a fake or sub. Real BP loads by weight. So I';m sorry to say you need to read up. But don't feel bad what you just posted is the most misunderstood things in BP loading. Welcome to the forum and some of the other books are also good reading. Read the sticky section and try to understand what you can but don't be afraid to ask questions as we all started from scratch. There are several persons who will tell you not to shoot the real BP but use a sub. There are some who have written books on the subject. Please give it a chance before making up your mind. If you can find some one in your area that has been loading for several years and knows what they are doing. One trip to the range does not do. If you have a SASS or muzzleloading club in your area would also be a good start for finding a mentor. Good Luck and if I may be of service please contact me. If you go to any other forum I go by Fairshake as that is my SASS handle. Later

[mattbowen]

Wilco, Cajun;

Thanks for the reply, I have enough modern power rifles to hunt with and really want to get into the black. I live in the country and have built a 100 yard range in the back yard and don't frustrated easily so to the wife's chagrin I will be spending a lot of time at the bench. Thanks for the book info I will be doing some reading also.

Cajin;
I was looking at using Pyrodex FFG and I was under the impression that it was a modern BP am I correct or do I have to look at something else?


Thanks again

Matt

[waksupi]

Now wait a minute. Last time I looked, black powder was always loaded by volume, not weight.

[Doc Highwall]

The only time I used volume for black powder was with my muzzle loader when I went to the range to work up a load. After I found a load by volume I would dump that volume on my scale to see what it would weigh then if I wanted to make up some pre measured loads for hunting I could weigh them out and put them in tubes. For a black powder cartridge gun once you find a weight of powder say 68 grains you could set your powder measure like a Lyman with the aluminum hopper to throw 67.5+ grains and put it on your scale and trickle it up to 68 grains. Now you develop a technique that you like to pour it into your drop tube before powder compression. Later on you will find that powders from different lots burn different and have slightly different densities just like smoke-less powder and you will have to tweak your load.

[montana_charlie]

I am not new to reloading (modern powder) but have never done any black powder. I do know that BP is measured in volume in stead of weight
The only time that BP loads by volume is when you are loading a fake or sub. Real BP loads by weight.




Cajin;
I was looking at using Pyrodex FFG and I was under the impression that it was a modern BP am I correct or do I have to look at something else?
Now you are back to volume measuring, because Pyrodex is a BP substitute...not the real thing. If you put a weighed 70 grain charge of Pyrodex in a 45/70 cartridge, it would be a serious overload.

If you use a muzzleloader's measure to throw a '70 grain charge', you can then weigh that amount of powder. It will come to something less than 70 grains.
You can then use a scale to measure charges of Pyrodex...using the weight that the original check indicated.

If you change your mind, and decide to use actual black powder...we do have a forum here for Black Powder Cartridge Rifle discussions.

CM

[oldhickory]

Now wait a minute. Last time I looked, black powder was always loaded by volume, not weight.

I've always measured by volume also.

[EDK]

Get a copy of SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST by Mike Venturino. LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCH BULLETS, A BEGINNERS GUIDE by Randolph Wright is also good, as is SPG LUBRICANTS BP CARTRIDGE RELOADING PRIMER by Steve Garbe and Mike Venturino. These three are excellent reading and will answer almost all your questions.

Buffalo Arms will have all the tooling and moulds you need.

Shilohrifle.com/forums is a site that you need to visit...and do a lot of reading.

[mattbowen]

Thanks to all who responded, I am going to start a lot more reading before I start loading.

Thanks again

Matt

[firefly1957]

I load black powder by volume I have weighted a few and it was +- 1 grain on 150 gr charge!
Volume gives you an advantage as you want your bullet seated the same each time and black powder needs to be slightly compressed to give uniform results. It is not like smokeless it must fill the case reduced loads use fillers like cream of wheat to keep everything in place.
You do need to make sure your brass has the same capacity also as that can foul up your loads.
Pyrodex is a substitute and needs to be used by volume something to consider is you want a full case with powder filler wads than the bullet seated at depth you want with slightly compressed powder charge.
I reload black in 45-70 45-55-405 and 50 3 1/4 I have loaded 700 gr bullets with 150 gr fg that is a impressive load on the shoulder that is. I usually use lighter bullets in 50 as my rifling is a bit slow for the 700 gr. I also always put thin card board wad on powder then often a lubed wad or grease cookie under bullet if paper patch is used.
Enjoy the sport Jim

[AZ-Stew]

There are three sub-forums within Cast Boolits where you will probably find the knowledgeable charcoal shooters amongs us. They are "Muzzleloading", "Black Powder Cartridge" and "Black Powder Paper Patching". Check them out, post a slightly more specific question and I'll bet you'll hit the jackpot for the help you seek.

Regards,

Stew

[44man]

I just use my Redding measure to throw BP loads for cartridge loads.
No, it will not set off powder! :holysheep
I have weighed loads too but seen no advantage. I have tried many times to work ML loads for accuracy by weighing but using a BP measure always was more accurate---don't ask me why so I set the scale aside.
I use a drop tube for the 45-70 but I don't think one is needed for the .45, just tap the case to settle and leave a little height so the boolit pushes the powder down a little.
A caution about Pyrocrap if compressed too much, it needs some, but if too tight it will shoot a slug of powder out the muzzle to burn in the grass. We made a lot of flares that way! :bigsmyl2:
777 does NOT like compression and we could not get enough in a case for any velocity. In a ML, the ball must just touch the stuff.

[firefly1957]

44man part of your answer is that Black powder can absorb moisture from the air not much with graphite coating but it can change weight/volume ratio which in turn changes were bullet seats.
Thank you for the info on 777 I have not tried it and you are not the first to say something like that about it.
When I tried Pyrodex in my Sharps (ctg.) it shot ok but way to the right of any other load I never have figured that out. The real nail in its coffin (for cartridges) was it was a real pain to clean out of bore but was not as bad in muzzle loader?

[Wayne Smith]

Need a little history here. Back when it was the only thing available BP was weighed and measured just as we do smokeless. Volume that was weighed to copy, or make another measure. A volume measure was almost always used for practical use, just as we use powder measures - volume measures, and set them by scales. BP measuring accuracy is less critical than smokeless measuring, so weight became the formal way to measure smokeless just as volume was the formal way to measure BP.

Now along comes the BP substitutes and screws it all up. Volume and weight were no longer comparable. The ratios changed and the volume was and is the important one. All substitutes are measured by BP volume, but the BP volume can be established by BP weight.

Is that more clear than mud?

[mattbowen]

Thank you y'all for responding, as I said I am new to BP and didn't realize that there were substitutes. I think I will stay with the black (the real black) I think I will feel more comfortable with it I think I can get Goex in Columbia at Sportsman's wholesale

Thanks again

Matt

[44man]

Thank you y'all for responding, as I said I am new to BP and didn't realize that there were substitutes. I think I will stay with the black (the real black) I think I will feel more comfortable with it I think I can get Goex in Columbia at Sportsman's wholesale

Thanks again

Matt
BP is easier to clean then some of the substitutes so you make a good choice.
My Old Army is stainless so I just pull off the grips, remove the cylinder and stick the whole gun in the laundry tub.
Use STP on the cylinder pin and you will get a lot more shots before it gets sticky. Same with my Vaquero. :bigsmyl2:

[mattbowen]

44; Thanks for the info, I clean my glock in the dish washer then put a rag through it and oil it down. I didn't think about using STP on the cylinder I will have to try that.

Thanks

Matt