Ruger #1--Failure to fire!!

[rockrat]

Been having a bit of problem with my new 460 S&W Ruger #1. Rounds that won't fire. Last range trip, had 1 in 3 that wouldn't fire. Today , had two out of 18 rounds. Haven't had any trouble with the primers in my #1 375 H&H. Powder checked in each case for same level

Using Starline brass and w-w lrm primers. Rim thickness on the Starline brass measures .055" thick. I can close the breechblock and run a .005" feeler gauge all the way past the brass, above that, I can go up to a .007" feeler gauge as far as the lower edge of the primer pocket. A .008" won't go at all between the breechblock and the casehead. Indentation in the primer on the unfired rounds looks shallow. Headspace?

Seems like alot of play in the breechblock. Will have to measure it.

don't know if it is the gun, or problem brass.

Pulled out some 45 colt rounds, every one fired

Anyone have trouble with their #1 , with failure to fire?

[Ben]

Could be the brass ? ?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Not here, they always go bang.

I did, however, have a guy give me almost 2000 CCI BR - large rifle primers because he was having failure to fire problems in whatever rifle he was using.

And strange as it may sound, I have been using those primers in my 45/70 RUGER #1s with ZERO failures to fire over a few hundred rounds.

In fact, I haven't even used any other primers.

So, hate to say it, being a RUGER fan and all, but if everything else seems normal, maybe it is a problem with that rifle.

Considering the problems you hav'in, I take it off your hands, as is, for $75.00 and won't even hit ya up for any "boot."

AND, be'in the kind and considerate person I am will even pay the shipping.

Send me a "PM" and I'll get that shipping address off to you ASAP!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[rockrat]

Crusty Deary O'l Coot

Wouldn't want to stick you with a "problem child", too honorable for that, thanKs for the offer though[smilie=l:


Told Ruger about it, see what they have to say!!

[Gunlaker]

It would seem that you have found some of the same out of spec Starline brass that I've been finding lately. You should be getting rims in the 0.065" to 0.068" range. I sort mine by rim thickess and put the 0.055" ones into a box so I won't accidentally use them. I'm sure I have well over a hundred of those now. Starline will replace them for you BTW.

Find some with proper rim thickness and I'll bet your failure to fire problems will go away.

Chris.

[charger 1]

I dont know what your priming with but win primers need more hit. None of my sako bolts will fire em unless cocked and pulled twice

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well Rockrat, was just want'in to help out a fellow who is a RUGER #1 lover, ME, [smilie=l:[smilie=l: So if'in ya change your mind, let me know.

If I have ta, I might even throw in a little, very little, boot like maybe a tin of the famous Couger Gold cheese from the Washington State University creamery.

About time for me to make my yearly run to pick up cheese for family and friends CHRISTmas gifts, so if'in ya get your order in quick maybe I could buy an extra can, just cause I'm a nice Crusty Ol'Coot. :kidding::wink::kidding:

AND like the other poster said, I'd sure like to have a bunch more #1s!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[white eagle]

seeing you are using Starline brass I would say the brass is the trouble
that brass is not so good

[AkMike]

I suspect that the chamber is cut too deep since it's a new rifle. Check it out with Go/No Go guages. If so return to Ruger for the fix.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????

Starline brass has been getting rave reviews from a lot of directions.

Is this a recent problem with that brand?

I have been using Starline brass in my RUGER #1 45/70 with great results.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[AJ Peacock]

My guess is either rim thickness or head space (rim fit) in the rifle.

I'd bet it's the rim thickness of the brass, since the 45's worked fine.

AJ

[docone31]

Is there a possibility of pistol primers in the case?

[Gunlaker]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????

Starline brass has been getting rave reviews from a lot of directions.

Is this a recent problem with that brand?

I have been using Starline brass in my RUGER #1 45/70 with great results.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I have only started seeing thin rims on my Starline brass in the last 6 months or so. But I buy and use a lot of .45-70 brass (most of my rifles are .45-70 in one form or another). Buy enough brass and soon you'll find defects if you care to take the time to measure them. I've also got 3 bags of Remington brass with overly shallow primer pockets. Fortunately a little cleanup and they work fine with pistol primers in my black powder rifles.

Chris.

[rockrat]

No, just W-W large rifle magnums in the 460 cases. Ordered some Hornady cases from Grafs and sent a few cases to Starline to be inspected. Will let you know what happens.

Anybody have any go/no-go gauges, for the 460 S&W, I can borrow?

[AkMike]

You could do a make shift set of guages your self by seating a shell in the chamber and carefully stacking broken off pieces (about the size of the diameter of the rim.)of double edged razor baldes on top until you can't close the breech block. Carefully measure one then multiply by the number of blade parts.

Sound reasonable?

Similar to the feeler guages you've already tried. Discuss this with the shop and or gunsmith that you're dealing with.

I'm not familiar with the 460. Isn't it a streached out 45 Long Colt or the 45 Cassul? If so Donnely says the rim thickness should be .06.

[rockrat]

Yes, the 460 is a stretched out Colt or Cassul. Out to about 1.8". Think low end 45-70 performance, maybe Marlin level loads.

I have seen .059" for one dimension. My two lots of cases are .053" and .055".

If I knew the dimensions of the no-go gauge, I could make one on my lathe.

Will get it worked out one way or the other.

Thanks

[AkMike]

.

If I knew the dimensions of the no-go gauge, I could make one on my lathe.


Look up the SAMMI specs somewhere.. It should be online.

[AkMike]

http://www.saami.org/index.cfm

[rockrat]

Thanks AKMile, got the specs.

[Tom W.]

I had two or three FTF with my #1 while fire forming some brass. I, too was getting some very light primer strikes. My first thought that there was grit or some such retarding the firing pin travel, but I realized that I was trying to shoot some brass that had been fired in my Encore pistol and just neck sized.Now if I want to shoot them I'll FL size them first.

[AkMike]

But this one headspaces on the rim not on the neck.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tom W.

Full length sizing will not set the shoulder back out.

In fact, if you have followed some manufactures directions for setting up full length dies, it could increase the problem.

Manufacturing tolerences being what they are, your TC may have a bit shorter chamber then your #1, which if that is the case, your best bet is to always keep your brass seperated as per firearm.

In fact, in some situations it is not only best to keep the brass seperated, but to also have a set of dies for each firearm

This will also help your consistancy as well as brass life if the chambers differ to any degree.


Always, for best brass life and load consistancy, size your brass to the very minimum that will allow easy chambering.

If your firearms chamber differ which is highly likely and your dies happen to be on the small side of the toleriences, brass life can be the pits.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Dale53]

rockrat;
Primers that do not fire, nearly ALWAYS appear to have light hits (a fired primer backs out against the breech face deepening the primer indentation). SAAMI states the proper rim thickness as .060" maximum and -.011" as minimum. If your Starfire cases measure .055" they are well within tolerances. I would expect you either have something retarding the hammer "hit" or your firing pin is too short. It may be something as simple as needing a new mainspring.

I would call Ruger and talk to one of their techies. Do not rely on who answers the phone, as you will need to talk to a Ruger RIFLE technician.

I have a #3 as well as a #1 but have not needed to take either apart (I have had no problems).

Keep us posted.

Dale53

[Tom W.]

I was keeping my brass seperated, but I traded the t/c barrel and the #1 was rechambered to A.I. The Fired t/c brass loaded into the Ruger just fine. I should have realized that if it looked like it was going to work easily, something probably wouldn't...


I hate to waste the brass.....


The good thing is that almost all of my loaded rounds have been fired, the brass is fire formed and awaiting testing, and the loads that I made for the #1 when it was still a stock 30-06 still hit where they are supposed to. I don't want to pull all of the hunting loads that work just to reform the brass.

[daddywpb]

I had the same problem with Starline .44 Mag brass a couple years ago. I wouldn't buy it any more.

[charger 1]

No, just W-W large rifle magnums in the 460 cases. Ordered some Hornady cases from Grafs and sent a few cases to Starline to be inspected. Will let you know what happens.

Anybody have any go/no-go gauges, for the 460 S&W, I can borrow?


I figured sooner or later I'd see the W-W on this thread. Get some CCI in there and go shootin

[excess650]

.005" headspace shouldn't be a problem with that rimmed case. Shallow primer indents suggest a too short firing pin, or something in the firing pin recess. You could try another brand of primers, but do you really need LRM for ignition? Try some Federal 210.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Primers, Fed. verse CCI -------???????

I was talking to a young fellow who works on the primer line at CCI just a few days ago.

I live about 45min drive from Lewiston where CCI and Speer are located.

I ask him about the primer situation where Fed. and CCI are both owned by the same company.

Is CCI making Federal primers, OR??? He couldn't tell me the answer - didn't know.

It would be interesting to know just how much cross over there might be with all these companies coming together under one ownership.

However, he did say the CCI primer line was still working 7 days a week and they still had a back log of orders.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[excess650]

From my PPC and IPSC days I can tell you that Federal had the softest cups and CCI the hardest. My Dillon 550 would not reliably seat CCI primers. Dillon recommended only Federal and Winchester at that time.

[Dale53]

Many years ago, I had some "issues" with CCI primers in my Star Reloader. I did a little investigating with a micrometer. CCI primers were larger in diameter than Winchester or Remington. The explanation (and I subscribed to that) was that CCI's were MADE for reloaders while the Winchester and Remington primers were OEM in size. I, along with a lot of other reloaders, found that W and R primers were rather loose in the primer pockets (the direct result of being .002" or so smaller in O.D.).

The solution for my Star reloader was to buy primers from my local custom reloader who was able to get CCI "OEM" primers that were ALSO smaller in overall size.

Whether or not any of this is apparent today, I don't know. I prefer Federal Primers but during the recent primer shortage, I ended up with a few thousand Winchester primers as that was what was available at the time. I have noticed NO significant difference in seating requirements with my Dillon 550B with this new lot.

FWIW
Dale53

[rockrat]

chargar 1, I don't have any problems with the same primers in my Ruger #1 375 H&H.

Supposed to have heard back from Ruger within 3 days. Day 5 now, and NOTHING!!

Will pull apart to check for debris, and if clean, then phone call to Ruger!!


Finally heard from Ruger. They want me to send the gun back. Pulled breechblock out this morning, then I called them to see what firing pin protrusion should be. Told them I had .035" and .007" from breechblock to case (.028" hit) and they said they thought it was in spec. They want me to buy some factory ammo first and see if it all fires!!!! If not, then send rifle in.

I have some Federal 215M primers I think I will try first.

Hmmm, factory ammo, what a novel (and $$$) idea.


12-9-10 Pulled out the breechblock on my 375 H&H and measured the firing pin protrusion. It was .021" greater than the protrusion on the 460 S&W. Think I might have found the problem, only drawback , the firing pin is factory fit only and have to send the whole gun back to have a new one put in :(