Maybe I don't need a new Press!

[gcollins]

What I need is a person that can design me a air powered system. In years past I have saw a few, but never gave it much thought.
If anyone out there has any idea's please let me know???
If you have a design hopefully you will draw it out. I read instuctions 5 times and still don't understand something but show me once and i am good to go.
I am open to all ideas.
Thanks
G

:coffeecom

[jaguarxk120]

.....

[akajun]

Consider going back to school, getting an Engineering Degree. Persevere in learning to read and understand instructions; then, invent what you desire instead of asking someone to gift you with their hard work. Where are you from? California? I have 5 US Patents, I worked hard and they make money. Sir, you piss me off.

Now, in your profile, I see you are from Kansas and disabled. I am disabled and from Western New York. I am not apologizing.

Wow, do you shoot at the girl scouts when they come selling cookies too? I dont see where he wanted anyone to give him anything, he very well may be willing to pay for your time. He is asking for help, that is all. If you dont want to help him dont post.

[ZombieHitman]

I'm all about giving people a hand UP, no hand OUTS.
Respectfully there Mr. GCollins, I suggest that you get yourself a Harbor Freight catalog and a ENCO catalog, and figure out how to cobble one together yourself.
Folks here will help you figure things out, but not about to hand you the Holy Grail...
No disrespect intended, but come on now.
I'm pretty sure that you're better than that...

[akajun]

To the op, rather than building from scratch, could you modify an exiting press to run off of either an air actuated hyraulic jack or a hyrdaulic ram and 110v hydraulic system?

[gcollins]

Unbelievable,
I think that those of you that have posted back to me stating that i was trying to profit from someone else's work Is crazy. I thought that forums were for self help. I can't tell you all how many people I have helped in my life and never once said anything to them as you have stated at me.
And I would bet that those of you have donated a lot to this forum, and no one has ever helped you out.

[scrapcan]

gcollins,

have a look at the post count and join date from those who have posted. You have not seen the representative group on the site.

Hang around others will be here to post also. I don't have anything that will help you on your project, but others will.

To the other posters that try to drop the hammer at step one. Step back and ask what and why before you condemn one's asking for help. Not everything is done for profit, and not everyone is a leech.

onondoga,

your response is out of line. you should have skipped buy if that is your attitude, he asked for help not a bashing. And I would be willing to bet in your patents you used someone else's work to get there, what if you had been given the treatment along the way that you just handed out? ***sentence removed, I was out of line *** I would bet you had lots of help along the way and likely not very many of them gave you the attitude you just displayed.

*** Statement removed, I was out of line***

If you don't want to help move on.

[gcollins]

Manleyjt,
Thank you, I am great full for your post!! I think you know me, and I would never use anyone like that. You know you can ask anyone that knows me and they will tell you I am the first person to help if I can. I will do my best not to post topics like that again, I have seen these setups but it was a long time ago.
Again Thanks My Friend
G

[thx997303]

This is interesting to me.

You are wanting to make your press air actuated correct?

Would I also be correct in assuming that you want to because of a disability?

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to look at my press and see what i can come up with.

I may do it for fun.

[FrankG]

Shouldnt be too hard to do with a air cylinder, framework and a couple flow control valves,solenoid , momentary rocker switch and some hose. Adjust pressure and flow controls till it operates smooth and slow on both strokes .
Surplus Center . com should have all the makings except for frame work.

[Ajax]

To those with the negative posts, I think you might be on the wrong forum. We help each other out here. I am starting to see more and more of this behavior recently and it is all from the news guys. I havn't been here for all that long but i do post on what i think is important or i can help with. So my recommendation is if you dont want to help other or just have to be negative please refrain from posting. That goes for asking questions, cause I for one will not help you.

Andy

[FrankG]

Im a new guy here and I dont believe what Im seeing here as far as the bashing of another member !!

[Trey45]

onondaga, you might be more comfortable on another forum. We here on this forum tend to HELP each other, not bash each other like you are doing here. If you have nothing positive or helpful to contribute, I highly recommend you take a free piece of advice, AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER THREAD.

[45nut]

This forum is based on a foundation of helping each other, not ripping each other open and treating each other as refuse. If per chance you do not want to help then do not post tearing apart the fabric that does hold us together.
I know times are tough and nerves are raw, but we are not the cause, you can place that blame squarely on the residents of the swamp, past and present.

Attacking one another is not seen as sport here like it seems to be on other forums.

[CATS]

Look into an air over oil system to prevent slamming.

[gcollins]

I never gave it a second thought but I wished I would have, I would of never posted it and i will reframe from doing it again. I thank all of you guys that feel like I do about helping others and I think that is a big problem we have in the world we live in.
Cats, I have been looking into the air over hydaulics for a much smoother run. My biggest problem is finding a ball joint or knuckle joint because the throw isn't s straight up and down.

45nut will you please delete this.
Thanks to all
G

[waksupi]

I never gave it a second thought but I wished I would have, I would of never posted it and i will reframe from doing it again. I thank all of you guys that feel like I do about helping others and I think that is a big problem we have in the world we live in.
Cats, I have been looking into the air over hydaulics for a much smoother run. My biggest problem is finding a ball joint or knuckle joint because the throw isn't s straight up and down.

45nut will you please delete this.
Thanks to all
G

I'd prefer to see the topic followed through on. It seems to me this is exactly the kind of question we are here for.

[Cowboy T]

I don't think it's wise to delete this thread. It's an example of what happens on too many other forums, and you were just asking for some advice/guidance.

I'm still a n00bie to casting (just over a year), and personally, I think you've got a great idea! No, I don't know how to do it, nor do I have 5 patents to my name, but your idea's a good one nonetheless.

[noylj]

I'm sorry, an air-powered system to do what?
If you want to automate your press, you first need a progressive press, a case feeder, and a bullet feeder. Then you can get a Ponsness/Warren (or something like that) motorized system.
If you want, go to YouTube to see what others have done.
Personally, I couldn't walk away from a running press so I don't see where automation would be that much faster without my getting totally bored. Then, you have to keep filling primer tubes and adding cases and bullets, and I just do not need to produce that many of any single load.

[Cowboy T]

There are people who have fully automated their Dillon Super 1050's. Might be worth looking at that.

[Ravenhawk57]

I have been helped on this site more than any other just by reading the questions and answers of others than all the other sites I have visited. Joined this forum because of this and I would like to see it remain as it is in its present form. My .02$ worth. Thanks

[c3d4b2]

Here is a link to some commercial hydraulic swagging presses.

http://www.corbins.com/product.htm

[onondaga]

gcollins,

My replies to you were bad and uncalled for. They are a reflection of my self battles and not your statement at all. I apologize for my cruelty and hope you can get helpful answers to your posted question about automating your press. Should you not get the help you need or be able to help yourself to be able to operate your equipment due to your disability, consider contacting VESID for help. They have been instrumental and exemplary in helping so many of disabled adapt and conquer limitations including my self. They have solved many many needs for special equipment modifications for quality of life and occupation. VESID:

http://www.vesid.nysed.gov/

Gary

[45nut]

It takes much less effort to make a mistake or be rude over the years than it takes to apologize Gary,, I am pleased and commend you for standing up and apologizing. Been there, done that.

[scrapcan]

Gary,

I agree with 45nut. Hard to back track and you have done a great job. Thank you and welcome to the neighborhood. And thanks for giving the link for VESID.

And congratulations on holding the patents that you do, many times the hardest part of the ordeal is getting the patent to be recognized. Very tough and very thorough process.

Jeremy

[scrapcan]

If this were a request for help with converting a P-W 800B progressive shotgun press I could help with the linkage issue, but that is as far as I could help. I have one said press that was converted for the previous owner who was wheelchair bound who loved to shoot trap. I don't have the hydraulic components, only the press and how it was converted.

If pictures of it would be of help, let me know and I will see if I can get some put up.

[gcollins]

c3d4b2,
Thank you so much for the link! I went there and it was like someone turned on the light!! I was over thinking this so bad, My head for sure wasn't clear, no ball joints or knuckle joints needed, all I have do to link up to the bottom of the ram. For some reason I had it in my head that i had to hook up to leverage arm!!! Now all I have to do is figure out how to hook to my ram, and figure how much power that the cylinder has to have.
Thanks again!
G

[CATS]

You can still use the link arm, smaller dia cyl...cheeper. Look at a loop of tubing resistant to your oil. Use compress not push in air fittings. There are charts at each tube maker that will show oil compat and flexability. Mount cyl with a clevis on each end.

[RP]

Well Gary I myself have had to back track on a few post jumping the gun and posting something that was not called for. The guys here are a great bunch of fellows and glad to see the path you took on this one. That says something about you to me it takes a man to stand up for whats right and a man to say when he was wrong which is real hard sometimes.

[rsrocket1]

Take a look at some Youtube videos or other sites relating to the MEC 9000HN hydraulic shotshell reloading presses. It isn't an answer, but it may give you ideas on how you can adapt a metallic cartridge press into a powered press.

The other issue would be if you are putting together a progressive press, the primer is usually seated at the top of the upstroke. Maybe the 9000HN has that solved, but its just one more thing to consider.

Good luck on your quest.

[mroliver77]

Even when somebody is out of line that does not give us license to reply in the same manner. I am tired of the bickering and rude posts.
I have seen Gary be very helpful in other posts since comming here and also commend him on his apology.
Why do this? Working the lever on a press for me gets painful very fast and loading must be done in short runs. It would help me to have a power stroke but I fear the loss of "feel" of the machine. I am interested in the outcome if you make any progress please keep us posted.
Jay

[HardColt]

Sir:
What kind of press do you have? Do you want it pnuematically or hydraulically actuated?

[Tom R]

I hope this helps I just spent 30 min on it.
I modeled it of of a rcbs jr press. I mounted the press on the side of the bench so you can mount a bracket to the bottom of the ram.

[FrankG]

Tom R that will work . Where handle screws into linkage a new 'handle' bracket could be made to accept the swivel ball joint on top of cylinder ram. AAdd a couple flow controls to both hoses to control speed of operation and a regulator for tweaking force .

[scrapcan]

you will want to use a doubling acting cylinder. Make it go slow, as safety is a concern and slower speed with the stroke will help to keep the fingers out of harms way.

You might look at surplus center online to see if you can find a suitable hydraulic power pack if using hydraulics. They also have a fair amount of air equipment also.

I think the mention above of using clevis connectors is good, they are durable and can be readily undone with a minimum of tools. You could then use a short threaded rod with a hole for the clevis out of tool steel to mount the clevis, it would be easy to remove from press and put handle back on.

I would also put some sort of mechanical stop provision on the ram. Think of stop collars on large hydraulic cylinders. this would work well if you use a double acting cylinder in the pull mode as the collars will stop the ram travel and allow adjustment of stroke. You could use an adjustable set of threaded sleeves with fine thread for a stop collar so you could adjust stroke length.

just random thoughts, maybe they are worth something, maybe not.

[scrapcan]

Gary and all,

I removed a sentence and a statement from my post, I was also out of line.

I trust we have all helped each other to remain civil and to the helping nature of this board in this thread.

Sorry for my adding to the poor attitude in this thread.

[Tom R]

I forgot to add my press is mounted to the side of the bench. I cut out the side just enough to clearance the press linkage. Just in case some were wondering how it will work. I don't have a powered setup I just needed more room and I hate "strong mounts".

[WILCO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYpyUM5bqH0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LsiscYhujA&feature=related

[Beekeeper]

Gcollins,
Are you wanting to do it with air or hydraulics?
If you are thinking air you might check out an air conditioning shop for a used damper actuater.
I have given them to people when I had access to them for all sorts of jobs.
Once used them in my beekeeping business to automate an extracting setup.
Hooked up like shown on the RCBS press in another post it should give you the pressure needed. You might have to legnthen the actuater arm a bit tho.

Hope this helps in some way.

Jim

[gcollins]

First Off, thank you all for the help and the info. The Press is a Old Herters Super O , the reason to automate is , torn L3, L4.L5, also narrowing of the spinal cannal.
Also if I am going to resize and lube any bullets I will also have to automate it also. I would prefer to go air over Hyd. or vise versa. First off i tried to hire a teen age boy to do this for me, but these kids today think they should get $40.00 per hour:groner: Second it has to be low cost. The guy that automated his Dillon is COOL and not knowing why he did it more than likely the guy just wanted to see if he could do it. I will not Automate my Dillon I have no need to do it. My thoughts,(we reload for 2 reasons, 1-to save money which allows us to shoot more! The other reason and maybe not for every one but I injoy doing it!! But if it is going to make my back hurt worst (and it does) then I will have to quit doing something I have done for over 35 years)
I am fairly certain that you all have gave me the info I needed to auto my press, I will not ask for design info on my Lyman Luber Sizer.
Thank all of you guys very much

Later
Greg

[Centaur 1]

Greg, what type of machines do you have to work with? If you had a welder, lathe and a mill available this could be a fun project. Right off the bat my thoughts go towards a mechanism similar to a windshield wiper. What about mounting a disk that has the same diameter as the stroke on your press. Drill a tapped hole near the edge of the disk and attach a linkage bar with a shoulder bolt to the disk at one end, and the other end to the bottom of the ram. As the disk rotates it would raise the ram, then as it continues to rotate it would lower the ram. Think of how a winshield wiper works. You could mount some sort of motor under the bench and drive the disk with a belt. By using different sized pulleys you could find a speed that you like. Look for an old sewing machine and you'll have a motor and a foot pedal to operate it. You could probably build this with a welder and a drill press.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk248/mlschmall/Pressdriver.jpg

[Down South]

I would think hydraulic might be easier to accomplish. It might be more costly though. I'm thinking more about the resizing part being more stable/smooth using hydraulics. you could use a relief valve to bypass excessive pressure back to the reservoir if something got jammed.
A small hyd cylinder hooked up to the bottom of just about any press ram should work. Adjust the relief pressure to where it will just barely resize the cases you are working with.

[gcollins]

Centaur,
You won't believe this but I have a w.w. motor and I tryed to hook it up yo my Luber Sizer and didn't have any luck, but I never gave the thought of using your idea!!! If it warms up so I can spend sometime in the shop I will try your idea on my press.
I want to thank all of you for the help!
G

[Centaur 1]

I know that every press is just a little different in design, but I was looking at my RCBS JR2 last night. The bottom of the ram already has the linkage bar attached to it. The botom end of the linkage rod is attached to a block of steel that is drilled for the handle. That block of steel has a step that contacts the press frame at the bottom of the down stroke. If your press is anything like mine, I don't see why you couldn't get an extra one of those blocks and grind away the part that contacts the press, so that it's capable of rotating in a complete circle. Then it would be posible to replace the pin that holds the block to the press with a longer shaft that'll extend beyond the outside of the press to use as a drive axle.

[Dan Cash]

Check out MEC shot shell reloaders. They have a hydraulic unit for the MEC 600 loader. Could be adapted to others.
Dan

[Centaur 1]

See if you can post some pics of your press, especially the bottom of the ram-handle area.

[a.squibload]

http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part_family.php?id=8&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=3%2F4%2Bx%2B3%2F4%2Bheim%2Bjoint%2C%2Baur ora%2Bbearing%2Bcompany%2C%2Bball%2Bjoint%2Blinkag es%2C%2Bfk%2Brod%2Bends%2C%2Bheim%2Bjoint%2Brod%2B ends%2C%2Bheim%2Bjoints%2C%2Bheim%2Bjoints%2Bfor%2 Bsale%2C%2Bhiem%2Bjoint%2Brod%2Bends%2C%2Bhime%2Bj oint%2Brod%2Bends%2C%2Bhyme%2Bjoint%2Brod%2Bends%2 C%2Bmetric%2Bheim%2Bjoint%2Brod%2Bends%2C%2Bpush%2 Bpull%2Bcable%2Bcontrols%2C%2Bqa1%2Brod%2Bends%2C% 2Brod%2Bend%2Bbearings%2C%2Brod%2Bend%2Bjoints%2C% 2Brod%2Bends%2C%2Brose%2Bjoints%2C%2Bspherical%2Br od%2Bend%2Bbearings%2C%2B&utm_content=Heim%2BJoints&utm_campaign=CHROME%2BMOLY%2BHeim%2BJoints

Just a thought from a Jeep guy, heim joint could be useful.
Link given as an example, looked up "heim joints" on dogpile.

Tom R: like your idea, no real modification to the press.

[jmh54738]

gcollins, sent you a PM

[Tom R]

Tom R: like your idea, no real modification to the press.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.
I could do more if I had a specific press to work with. If the op does not want to mount his press to the side of the bench, You could always make a plate that bolted under the press and extended down to mount the ram on it. As in a upside down L.

[Papa Jack]

First Off, thank you all for the help and the info. The Press is a Old Herters Super O , the reason to automate is , torn L3, L4.L5, also narrowing of the spinal cannal.
Also if I am going to resize and lube any bullets I will also have to automate it also. I would prefer to go air over Hyd. or vise versa. First off i tried to hire a teen age boy to do this for me, but these kids today think they should get $40.00 per hour:groner: Second it has to be low cost. The guy that automated his Dillon is COOL and not knowing why he did it more than likely the guy just wanted to see if he could do it. I will not Automate my Dillon I have no need to do it. My thoughts,(we reload for 2 reasons, 1-to save money which allows us to shoot more! The other reason and maybe not for every one but I injoy doing it!! But if it is going to make my back hurt worst (and it does) then I will have to quit doing something I have done for over 35 years)
I am fairly certain that you all have gave me the info I needed to auto my press, I will not ask for design info on my Lyman Luber Sizer.
Thank all of you guys very much

Later
Greg

I just looked at the dillon job, that looks pretty simple and straight forward to me. Most
all our presses are basic in operation and I see no reason why the Hydraulic Cylinder cannot be replaced with Air parts providing you have a small air compressor ( 2hp ? ).
There are hand and foot controls available. I don't know where you are located, there are lots of surplus industrial suppliers around, they have lots of parts you can use to assemble the mod.... My only concern is SAFETY !! You don't want to get your hands pinched ...
Look for surplus industrial supplies or even govt. surplus . I used to get a catalog that had all sorts of cylinders and motors and vales supplies....I'll see if I can find you a link.
Good luck !! PJ

[gcollins]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the info and you all thoughts, I would think that I should be able to auto it if I can locate the parts needed. There are no surplus stores and or supple stores in my area, I am sure there are some in Tulsa but that is a 2 hr drive for me. Winter has came it was 15 degrees last night, I can't get out of the house allmost can't get out of bed, it is a long time untill spring so maybe I will get it all figured out by then and can get to work on it.
I want to let everyone know that I am great full for all the help, you all are a great bunch of guys, maybe someday I can repay the advice.
I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a great New Year.
G

[x101airborne]

Mr. Collins.

I support your endeavor and I wish I could help you technically. As I cannot, I will help you morally. Please do not give up on the thread. I am a military veteran and know a lot of my friends that lost use or ability of certain irreplacable body parts. This makes shooting / handloading for them difficult, but not impossible with the modifications like you are seeking. While the reactions of some anger me easily from their posts, I can only say I hope someone has the "spirit" to help you along your path. As to the negative "refuse treaters" I will simply add you to my ignore list and PRAY like HELL you dont try to help me.

[Papa Jack]

Here is one Surplus outfit I have ordered from in the past. Located in Lincoln Neb....get a copy of their free catalog , you may find something you can use.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

You may be able to mock up the unit using Cardboard templates, that way you can change pieces and dial it in the way you want it, as far as stroke and operation.....
"PJ"

[azcruiser]

The main reason company's don't offer a fully automated reloading machine is because of the export laws.The machine would go from a hobby type machine to an implement of war ? or something like that .Plus the liability problems because sooner of later somebody would pinch off a finger. The way to go is to make a system that work's like your cars power steering .The ram doesn't cycle but instead moves up or down with a handle like a boat throttle but only moves when the throttle is moving .Can't think of anything more painful than catching your finger between the shell case and the seating die on a Dillon 1050 and having to then with your other hand reach in and unhook that lever that keeps you from backing it up and then have to lower it a hair all while your finger being flattened .Seen it happen it's not a nice sight .So if someone does make one go with direct drive not something that cycles or has a set stroke . My
2 Cents

[Skipper488]

I'll do ya one better. I design industrial control systems for a living and I'm willing to help with no expectation other than if I have a question I can get it answered in kind here. I'm not sure an air system is the best way (or even a good way) to go here. At first thought I would say hydraulic or at the very least an air over oil system. Air is very jerky in it's motion and can cause slamming. What cartridges are you reloading? What press do you have? Do you have a way to measure the amount of force you are using now to perform the resizing and crimping operations? Answer those and I'll see what I can come up with that won't cost an arm and leg in component cost. I wish I had seen this thread earlier, my pneumatics guy was just here dropping off calenders for the new year.

[Skipper488]

Just goes to show how I should read the whole thread before commenting. I see the air over oil has been mentioned and the video of the dillon press had an air over oil system as well as a very ingenious mount for the cylinder I would recommend duplicating that system. If I can be of any assistance please let me know.

The negativity of some of the initial posts just got to me real quick. I'm new to this forum but I've been a member of other reloading forums for a while and never seen anything like that.

[pmeisel]

I am following this just because I am impressed by all the ingenuity and can-do. Good on y'all.

[gcollins]

Hi Guys,
More great ideas coming in realy keeps me pumped up to stay at this and maybe get it done. Giving great thought to the old type power assit cyclinder that was used on the older Fords. I have a good small power steering pump and a 110 volt electric motor. That would give a hydo system, I also can come up with the cyclinder I think? Now here comes the hard part: connecting the control valves. We know that the cyclinder is a push and pull it would have plenty of power I am just not sure how to hook up the controls????????????
Anyone have any thoughts??
I am very great full for all the advice fella's!
G

[Skipper488]

Two choices gcollins, I would opt for electric controls just because I deal with them on a constant basis, but for simplicity sake I would go with either a manual valve or a self shifter so once you initiate the cycle it goes to full extension then back to the home position automatically, which is actually simpler than it sounds. It's just a self shifting valve.

[LAH]

I spoke to a guy once building an assist for a single stage press to do 50BMG sizing. Never seen him again so I can't help.

[scrapcan]

Great to see this thread keep moving. Keep asking questions and help will come. This is why this place has so many members and so many long time members.

[Tom R]

Here is one Surplus outfit I have ordered from in the past. Located in Lincoln Neb....get a copy of their free catalog , you may find something you can use.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

You may be able to mock up the unit using Cardboard templates, that way you can change pieces and dial it in the way you want it, as far as stroke and operation.....
"PJ"

I live down the street form them let me know if You want me to check something out for you. They have a full showroom.

[azcruiser]

I would stay away from something that does a full cycle when a switch or lever is pulled because sometimes something will be miss aligned or a primer jam and you will get a big BANG. Still think you want to have the main shaft move up and down with the motion of a stick or lever so when you stop the movement it all stops and doesn't cycle through .More like power steering you wouldn't want to turn you wheel and have it keep turning to make a full turn every time you moved the wheel .Something the makes a full cycle will sooner or later pinch off a finger or crush a case or set off the primers ??

[gcollins]

Hey Guys,
I ordered the cataloug to se what is out there! I have a lot of time and I am not in any hurry! Just would like to have it done by spring! I would like to set it up so it would be easy to unhook the power part. I only need it to be power when I am resizing. My plans are if I can get a simple system that works I want to auto mate my luber sizer.
Thanks for all the advice.
G

[Pavogrande]

Regarding air systems -- I would not use air where actuation pressure varies as in sizing a case. If the air presure is set for low effort, the ram will stall, set at hi-pressure for heavy effort and the ram will slam with low resistance.
My choice would be lo-pressure hydraulics.

[gcollins]

Hey Guys,
Look at this video clip, I need to find out where this guy got the motor and what it is called.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpQijPilDk&feature=related
If anyone on here is a registered U tube user would you please get this guys email or someway to get a hold of him.
Thanks
G

[Tom R]

That is a kit. I cant rember who makes it. They make it to fit the 650 as well.

[gcollins]

Well thanks, I do believe I can mod a windshield wiper motor to work, all I need to figure out is the throw lenght.
Thanks
G

[Tom R]

I would be surprised if a windshield wiper motor would have the power you need.

[oldscool]

:bigsmyl2:I have daydreamed about a project like this also. The procrastinator in me has yet allowed any follow through yet though. Beekeepers damper actuater sounds like a good idea.
I've been thinking is that a hydraulic pump for a convertible top and the accompanying cylinders and rocker switch would work quite well. An old boat hyd. pump and cyls. for power steering should aso give a smooth low pressure stroke, and any such fitted as Tom R illustrated should work quite well for most single stage presses. A 12volt battery or a power converter, a few spot welds and trial and error ought to give a relatively smooth operation that will not slam your fingers in a micro second. An extra "ouch" switch could stop and or reverse the cylinder in case you did, just like stopping pulling the handle on a press if you got your finger in the way. :sad: A pressure regulator could be incorporated, but shouldn't be needed for most operations. This could be expanded to run several like presses at the same time for seperate operations too.

As far as anyone concerned with patenting such a system, one would need some very good luck in coming up with something so "unique" that has not allready been done, or that it could not be changed by simple design and or material change or it being copied overseas. There is a lot of protection there::razz:
Hopefully, I will get motivated and pursue my own project some day soon before it is too late, and not just end up as another "pipe dream":violin:
Good luck, with your endeavor, and I hope you end up with something usefull in the end that works for you.:popcorn:

[gcollins]

Hey Guys,
Oldschool, Do you think that a powersterring pump would push enough fluid to run a small hyd. cylinder?? I had one of those ad on trim kits for years and decided I would never need it and let it go. Finding the cylinders and pump from old convertables are getting hard to find and are pretty high priced! My main concer is to power my Lyman 450 luber sizer I had to buy some bullets because my back won't let me run them threw the 450. Casting isn't fun anymore but it doesn't kill me as bad as the other things.
I am great full for all the help guys!
G

[Uncle R.]

Hey Guys,
Oldschool, Do you think that a powersterring pump would push enough fluid to run a small hyd. cylinder?? G

-Yes.

[oldscool]

gcollins,
Sure a power steering pump would run a small hyd. cylinder, that is what they are designed for. The reason I brought up a convertible top pump or boat steering pump is that would be one stop shopping as far as a combined motor-pump, along with fitttings hoses, switches and cylinders, ti would be a one stop shop.
I do not know what type of powersteering pump you are referring to, but most automotive types are going to need a motor and pulley, belt system to power it. Keep an eye out for an older chrysler 600 or import convertible that is sitting around in someones yard with bad tranny, eng. etc. and make an offer to haul it off and give em scrap price or better, and you might get lucky. You could also look for a wore out snow plow or tommy lift, wheel chair lift, holey boat with power trim, etc for donors. You probably will not be able to get "commercial production" use out of them, but much cheaper than trying to buy these components new. If you want to go real cheap, consider the real old school method of hydraulics using water weighted vessels, pulleys, and pivots.
On your 450 , you might just try a strap attached to the handle that you could step on to help pull the handle down and lessen the strain on your back.
I am sure there are a lot more and better ideas out there.
Wish you well in your quest.
D

[ASM826]

I used to work with solenoid activated air systems, and have a couple of observations. There are a couple of factors that affect the power and velocity of an air ram besides air pressure. First, I'll assume you have enough air pressure and storage volume to not starve the system at whatever your cycling rate is.

Whatever press you are attached to, the attachment point and the throw of the piston in your cylinder must be set so that it just does move the press to the same point as a completion of a stroke. The face size of the piston and the pressure you are using determine the amount of force being applied. That should not be more than a person can apply to the press, as that is the real limit the equipment was designed for.

Flow control valves are what limit the speed at which the piston moves. They do not limit power or pressure, but slow the rate at which the pressure is applied. They should be used on both the power stroke and the return. In this case, it would make the movement of the press slower, because you don't want a setup that slams from open to closed, if a case or primer was misaligned, you will crush it before anything would stop, and if your fingers were in the way ...

Here's a video of a small air press with two hand safety controls :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR1DpZJc9IU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR1DpZJc9IU)

Speaking of which, as in any powered system, it should designed to only operate when you are clear of it. I would design a two handed control. Maybe a button on one side that must be pressed, and a controller on the other.

For the actual control, I would use a spring loaded lever on a control valve, one that allowed me to push it to open the flow and further control the speed, and returned when I released it. I know this makes it sort of "semi-auto" system, but that would be as fast as I would want to go. I still want to look in every case and see powder. This also allows it to simply return to open when you release it, it doesn't have to complete the stroke to cycle. So if you see the case collapsing, for example, you could release just like you would if you were stroking the press by hand.

This could be done with air or hydraulics. It is not without risks, and finding someone who worked in automated manufacturing to review your design and help set it up might be worthwhile, even if they had to paid.

[ASM826]

Looking around, I did find this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9wGVRGbQrU

[gcollins]

Hi Guys,
I want to say thanks for the new info! Here a while back I bought a Lee Chanledger Press off of one of our members, with that press I can resize my 243 WSSM brass, other than that brass the only other cal that I load on a single stage press is 223. So things have changed a bit, I am wanting to auto my Dillon RL 550 press and my Lyman 450 luber sizer. The lyman is the most important, I can set down and run the Dillon for 15-20 mins with causing my self a lot pain. I cannot run the Lyman 450 at all!!
All the advice that I have recieved is wonder full and helps me a lot!! After reading and viewing on U Tube I have made up my mind that I will be stopping and starting on the fully down stroke and the fully up stroke, I would guess maybe now I should state that what every design I use will be a assit instead of fully Auto, there isn't any reason to make these 2 machine run full auto because I will be feeding by hand the cases and bullets. I hope that I have stated this in a way that isn't confusing.
Lets take the Dillon, I will feed a case and then a bullet and power it up, when it gets to full up stroke I will stop it to hit the powder dump lever and then stop it after it has come to the full down stroke (seating the primer) and then I will turn the shell holder to advance the cases and unload the loaded case. The process on the luber sizer will be almost the same except it will only stop on the full down stroke.
If this has changed anyone thoughts on this project please feel free to reply.
thanks to all so much!!
G
Thats S.S. for the bullets, they are Awesome!

[Kevin Rohrer]

re: 1050/650 motorized Drive.

Ponsness-Warren makes it.

[DCM]

Hmm sewing machine and tie rod ends. I think one could pick up a sewing machine at a thrift store/garage sale cheep enough! Tie rod ends at any auto parts store. Add a couple of momentary normally open switches in series with the control pedal for safety (Keeping the machine from cycling without depressing bot of them with ones fingers away from moving parts). Variable speed and cheap. Don't know if the sewing machine would have the torque, but I bet I could get one cheap enough to try it!

[Dave Bulla]

I read most of this but kinda skimmed the last two pages so I hope I don't repeat what somebody else already said.

Just to make sure I understand you, you really just want a power source to run the ram up and down on a single stage press correct?

ASM826 gives you some great info regarding power and what flow control valves actually do. The two handed control may not work though because you will be using one hand to position a bullet and the other to operate the control lever. If properly regulated to a safe speed and spring loaded as mentioned, you should be just fine.

I'm currently an industrial mechanic by trade (last 6 years) with an aviation background (21 years) and one thing that I see as pretty standard is that rather than regulate the pressure going in to control speed like you would think, you restrict the flow on the way out.

Picture a cylinder with an air line hooked to each end. In each line, there is a flow control regulator which contains a check valve and an adjustable orifice which restricts the RATE of flow in one direction and allows it to flow freely in the other. The free flow path is into the cylinder, the restricted or "regulated" flow path is out of the cylinder. This allows full working power "in" but at a controlled speed because the exhaust is restricted. Turning an adjustment knob on the valve lets you change the speed at which the piston moves anywhere from a creep speed or even no movement all the way to wide open where it will move real fast and hard.

For example, if we apply pressure to the rod end line, the cylinder will retract because the air pressure is on the rod side of the internal piston and moves the piston down into the cylinder pulling the rod inside with it. If the lines were unregulated, the movement would be extremely fast and it would slam full travel quite violently with typical air pressure. However, because we have a flow control check valve in each line, the air on the OTHER side of the piston needs to be forced out or "exhausted" through a "calibrated hole". This restriction provides back pressure which regulates the speed at which the piston moves.

You will need a manual control valve with some sort of lever to switch the air flow to the other side of the cylinder to make it extend. Now the roles the valves play will be reversed. The valve on the back of the cylinder that WAS restricting the flow on the retract stroke will be allowing full pressure in (unrestricted) to move the piston the other way and extend the rod. The valve on the rod end will be restricting the exhaust. Again, the supply air pressure in will be unrestricted full flow but the flow control on the other side will allow you to regulate the extend speed.

To regulate the power of the system, you do adjust the air pressure. If normal hand operation of the press puts say 200 psi of pressure upwards on the ram when you pull the handle you will want to match that power level with your air cylinder. If you used a cylinder with a 2 inch piston, a 100 pound air source will put the same 200 pounds of pressure on your ram if it is connected directly in line with zero mechanical advantage. 2 sq. in X 100psi = 200# of force out. 100 psi is a bit high for a home system so you could use a 2.5" piston at 80psi to get 200 pounds of force. Now understand, I'm just guessing at the force number to provide an example, it may only be about 100 pounds, I really don't know. If connecting directly to the bottom of the ram, that is how you need to figure it out. If you are connecting to a pivoting lever arm like in one of the earlier pictures that provides a mechanical advantage, you would use a lot less pressure. The easiest way to figure out how much would be to use a spring scale like you would weigh a fish with to manually pull on the lever. You might only need 30 or 40 pounds of pressure on a lever connection.

Just some things to consider. Hope I didn't make things worse. I don't think I told you anything incorrect but some things get lost in translation if ya know what I mean....

One great thing about an air system to think about is that you do not need system return lines for hydraulic fluid to get back to the tank. Any return line is just vented to the atmosphere. Most industrial applications that do not require power in the thousands of psi are air for just that reason. In high pressure/power systems, hydraulics is still king.

I'll have to think about this some more and see what I can come up with too.

[Dave Bulla]

Another thought....

You could look into an electric linear actuator. I'm not certain what sort of power you can get but I'd bet it would be plenty. The benefit would be that you don't need ANY plumbing, nor an air compression system or hydraulic pump. The issue you might run into is that most industrial rated electric cylinders would probably be 220 or 480V instead of 110. Worth checking into though.

[Big Dave]

Reading thru this thread there are a lot of ideas, many worth investigation. My opinion for what it may be worth. Air systems are cleaner to work with but I fear short on the needed power to full length size rifle cases unless connected to provide a mechanical force multiplyer thru leverage. This can get bulky and create problems with access to the press, as it will require a much longer stroke cylinder. My large single station presses all use about 2 feet of handle motion to obtain a 3 inch ram stroke, thats an 8 to 1 mechanical advantage. Full length sizing a 30-06 case can run to about 30 pounds or more on the handle, thats 250 pounds at the tool head. For direct action air drivers that is a lot. Also air systems can be difficult to regulate for a smooth stroke, especially as the pressure gets higher.
Hydraulics offer a lot more power in a smaller package and providing they are properly bled of any air in the system are very smooth. Use of a springloaded self centering double action valve would allow full control of the press just as though run by the manual handle with just a couple of pounds to move the valve handle. With a decently set up valve, feathering the control will allow creeping the press for things lie bullet seating.The major drawback to hydraulics is sooner or later they always leak and get messy. Not real great around the loading bench.
Electric linear actuators are probably the best. Either direct driven with a reversable electric motor attached to the end of the lead screw or a belt driven system with a pulley on the driver coupled to a motor under the bench using a cleated timing belt for positive drive.
The old earth station sattelite dish antennas used a linear actuator for reaiming from one sattelite to another. Haven't seen one in years and doubt it would have the necessary power to drive a press. Might be able to build something with a piece of say 3/4 inch threaded rod, a nut to fit and some cleted pulleys. Might even drive from the often mentioned
sewing machine motor and foot pedal speed control.though I don't know if those motors are reversable which would be necessary. The large mechanical advantage of a screw and nut drive would allow use of a fairly small motor with a low speed of ram travel.
The video of the Dillon with a mechanical drive appears to be using a gear reduction motor with an output of about 12 RPM coupled thru a crank plate and pitman shaft like an old sickle bar mowing machine.
Hope some of this may be of help to you and feel free to PM me if you need further discussion of my comments.

Best of luck to you,

Big Dave

[Big Dave]

You were looking to run your lubsizer with a power drive to. Again I think a mechanical linear driver would be best. Some kind of H frame over the press to mount the driver and a clevis and pin coupling to the press ram using the pin where the stock handle connects should serve.
I have a Lyman 450 and they are not the easiest running press around. I much prefer the older one I inherited from my father, It works a lot easier on the handle.

Big Dave

[selmerfan]

This forum is based on a foundation of helping each other, not ripping each other open and treating each other as refuse. If per chance you do not want to help then do not post tearing apart the fabric that does hold us together.
I know times are tough and nerves are raw, but we are not the cause, you can place that blame squarely on the residents of the swamp, past and present.

Attacking one another is not seen as sport here like it seems to be on other forums.

Thank you 45nut. Every time I see the bickering and mockery on other forums I just have to open up this site and see what a GREAT site can and should be. I don't know how many people I've directed to this site when they have casting questions on other sites and receive replies about being in the stone age or mountain man idiots. This is a great site with great people and moderated well, not micro-managed, moderated well. Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment is generally applied very well by the people here, although the ninth and tenth might be broken when we see other people's casting/sizing/reloading setups! :)

[CATS]

If you have not built anything yet it would be worth looking at what Jarel built for his Star luber. A finger safe version would interesting. See his post from today.
CATS

[Olevern]

I didn't even read past the first page, can't believe what I read there. I personally would like to invite several posters to find another cage to deficate in: you know who you are. My appologies to the op, not my area of expertise but if it were would be happy to help.