lee enfield and surplus ammo

[camerl2009]

ok so my grandfather had a surplus of .303 britsh ammo
in the basement in ammo crates about 2 crates full and a few box's
now i shot a lot of this before i started reloading and at about 1000rd
the bore on the gun is almost smooth. i pull a few rounds apart and what do you know all that ammo is loaded with cordite i still have alot of this left
maybe i will sell it or save it for when the s*** hits the fan but
i turned a lee enfield in to a smooth bore with this ammo any one got some shot loads :razz: not to worryed not that good of a rifle before all that.

any way i guess the brits give the ammo to canada for here maybe for guarding
POW'S idk its was sold affter WW2 as surplus ammo here and was nice and cheap
maybe thats why that rifle never shot so good all that dam ammo the rifling was poor when i got the gun

sorry for going on one of my rant's [smilie=s:

[smokemjoe]

Thats interesting WW2 History, Thanks

[junkbug]

Are you sure its really worn smooth? It may be so copper fouled that the grooves are filling up with guilding metal. An "Outers Foul-Out" may clean it out.


Good luck

[Bloodman14]

Hot water and soap after the Foul-Out. It may take a few times. What mark of gun? Matching numbers? Need more info on gun before telling you whether to get rid of it.

[camerl2009]

Hot water and soap after the Foul-Out. It may take a few times. What mark of gun? Matching numbers? Need more info on gun before telling you whether to get rid of it.


i cleand that gun real good its a number 4 MK 1
thay are easy to find here i mite rebarrel it for .45-70
the gun was not one of the guns my grandfather came home with
hell he had alot of stuff mp40,luger p 08,webley in .38,and alots of other stuff
including some knives i have most of this. to bad i cant shoot the dam mp40
yes its still is full auto, had to fight in court to get my prohibited license
but sadly cant shoot full auto since 1997(thats when thay stoped giving prohibited
class license's here to thats why i had to fight to get it) maybe i can get to knob
creek next year.

[camerl2009]

Are you sure its really worn smooth? It may be so copper fouled that the grooves are filling up with guilding metal. An "Outers Foul-Out" may clean it out.


Good luck

yes i cleaned it with that WW2 bore cleaner thats made for corrosive ammo and then hoppy's some of the rilfing is still there but its thin i sluged it

[zuke]

Think of it this way, it'll be a lot easier to clean to the bottom on the groove's!

[camerl2009]

Think of it this way, it'll be a lot easier to clean to the bottom on the groove's!

lol i guess im going to re barrel it i can get a no 4 mk1 barrel for cheap

[oldhickory]

Just curious...What's the head stamps on this ammo?

[camerl2009]

most look like the DAL BCMK7

[Hip's Ax]

DAL = Dominion Arsenal, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada

[Larry Gibson]

I've read where the barrels of SMLE sniping rifles were shot out with as little as 1000 rounds of the cordite .303 ammo in WWI. In Sniping in France by Hesketh-Prichard perhaps(?).

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Yep, Cordite has/had 50 percent nitroglycerin. HighVel2 had 40 percent. Very excellent ignition characteristics those powders have/had. The max nitroglycerin any powder has now is about 30 percent and those are the fast pistol powders hopefully shot at 20K cup or less. 700x was dropped to 25 percent about 10 years ago, and about that time 5744 was raised from 10 to 20 percent to improve its ignition characteristics in large cases where it found the most customers' use. Most all rifle double base powders are limited to 10 percent now. Nitro just burns too HOT. ... felix

[camerl2009]

DAL = Dominion Arsenal, Lindsay, Ontario, Canada

thats it

[JeffinNZ]

I once had a bubba'd MLE the barrel on which had no rifling to speak of from the chamber to about 2/3 the way down the barrel. For a hoot one day I shot a jacketed load in it and she put 3 rounds into less than 3 inches at 100m!!! Gotta love a freeeeeee bore.

[camerl2009]

I once had a bubba'd MLE the barrel on which had no rifling to speak of from the chamber to about 2/3 the way down the barrel. For a hoot one day I shot a jacketed load in it and she put 3 rounds into less than 3 inches at 100m!!! Gotta love a freeeeeee bore.

ya but mine has allmost no rifleing all the way down the bore
:violin:

[quasi]

I believe Dominion stopped using cordite very early in WW2, 1939 or so.

[camerl2009]

I believe Dominion stopped using cordite very early in WW2, 1939 or so.

ya like i said it was sold as surplus affter the war
i had about 2000rd of it i only have about 800 or so now
there was 3 cases full at one time im guessing my grandfather shot about 1
case full in this gun. he never shot the one he was issued(affter he came home that is)

[smkummer]

I am a range officer for the submachinegun matches at Knob Creek and I have a MP-40. If you make it down here, look me up and you can fire mine. Its a very smooth and controllable machinegun. Glad you were able to do what you had to do to keep it.

[camerl2009]

I am a range officer for the submachinegun matches at Knob Creek and I have a MP-40. If you make it down here, look me up and you can fire mine. Its a very smooth and controllable machinegun. Glad you were able to do what you had to do to keep it.

ya lots of time in court but i got it i can get purmission to take it
over the border but thats a pain for this type of firearm

[Multigunner]

I once had a bubba'd MLE the barrel on which had no rifling to speak of from the chamber to about 2/3 the way down the barrel. For a hoot one day I shot a jacketed load in it and she put 3 rounds into less than 3 inches at 100m!!! Gotta love a freeeeeee bore.

The earlier Lee metford used Metford designed radiused rifling, seven grooves and a much tighter bore than the later Lee Enfield.
This was fine when the .303 used a compressed Black Powder charge.
The .303 Metford bore is much closer to the nominal .303/.311 listed as the standard for Civilian sporting rifles in that caliber.
The Enfield pattern rifling was instituted to offset increased thermal gas erosion of the Cordite loaded cartridges.
Enfield bores are usually dead onto the .303 Minor dia, but can vary between .313 and .319 and still have passed the British military acceptance standards.

The Metford rifling can look to the eye to be a very badly worn bore, but they remain accurate , with medium velocity loads of less than 2,000 FPS, so long as the throat and first three inches of rifling has not become badly eroded.

Since the Barrels interchage a Lee Metford barrel might well be used to rebarrel a worn Lee Enfield.

A very worn bore can often still shoot accurately when using light cast boolit loads.

[camerl2009]

The earlier Lee metford used Metford designed radiused rifling, seven grooves and a much tighter bore than the later Lee Enfield.
This was fine when the .303 used a compressed Black Powder charge.
The .303 Metford bore is much closer to the nominal .303/.311 listed as the standard for Civilian sporting rifles in that caliber.
The Enfield pattern rifling was instituted to offset increased thermal gas erosion of the Cordite loaded cartridges.
Enfield bores are usually dead onto the .303 Minor dia, but can vary between .313 and .319 and still have passed the British military acceptance standards.

The Metford rifling can look to the eye to be a very badly worn bore, but they remain accurate , with medium velocity loads of less than 2,000 FPS, so long as the throat and first three inches of rifling has not become badly eroded.

Since the Barrels interchage a Lee Metford barrel might well be used to rebarrel a worn Lee Enfield.

A very worn bore can often still shoot accurately when using light cast boolit loads.

mines all matching and the barrel is smooth lol

[jonk]

It's hard to imagine shooting a bore 'smooth'. I've seen some pretty burnt out throats from cordite, many of which still shoot long nosed cast lead just fine; however a whole barrel is a new one on me.

It would be a good one to make a 45/70 out of though, you're right.

[Char-Gar]

I would like to have a couple of boxes of Cordite ammo, if anybody has any for sale. I would like to know the smell of Cordite, just once.

[mroliver77]

There is always a rebore to 35-.303. It is not as expensive as one would think.
http://www.35caliber.com/

Jay

[camerl2009]

There is always a rebore to 35-.303. It is not as expensive as one would think.
http://www.35caliber.com/

Jay

i do like the .22-.303 maybe i'll do that :bigsmyl2:

[Multigunner]

It's hard to imagine shooting a bore 'smooth'. I've seen some pretty burnt out throats from cordite, many of which still shoot long nosed cast lead just fine; however a whole barrel is a new one on me.

It would be a good one to make a 45/70 out of though, you're right.



For awhile British milsurp rifle collectors owners would have the barrel bored out smooth so they could keep the rifle in otherwise working condition. There was a loophole that classed smooth bored firearms as shotguns, and did not require the same level of paperwork.
Those who had the rifling bored out may have also intended to use them for reinactments or display purposes.

PS
I cleaned up an SKS barrel several years ago that looked shot out with only a trace of rifling. By the time I got all the crud out of the grooves the bore looked pretty good with deep rifling.
Some milsurp ammo can really choke up the rifling if not cleaned properly.

[camerl2009]

For awhile British milsurp rifle collectors owners would have the barrel bored out smooth so they could keep the rifle in otherwise working condition. There was a loophole that classed smooth bored firearms as shotguns, and did not require the same level of paperwork.
Those who had the rifling bored out may have also intended to use them for reinactments or display purposes.

PS
I cleaned up an SKS barrel several years ago that looked shot out with only a trace of rifling. By the time I got all the crud out of the grooves the bore looked pretty good with deep rifling.
Some milsurp ammo can really choke up the rifling if not cleaned properly.

its smooth just a little bit of rifling left as noted before i slug it and there where little to no grooves in the ball yes i was using a .319 ball for this
no one over here would bore the barrel out. unless thay where making a .410 shotgun out of it. i found 3 crates of this ammo 1 was almost all gone
the other 2 where full i shot what was left and a carte my self in this gun only.
as my grandfather never shot the one he came home with(affter he came back that is) ive never shot that one. only the one thats now smooth ive cleaned
this gun and ran bore brite in it. it was a beater gun but i now rebarreled it
yes .303 for now :D i still have the old barrel mite line it for a .22-.303

[higgins]

I would like to have a couple of boxes of Cordite ammo, if anybody has any for sale. I would like to know the smell of Cordite, just once. Chargar-Everyone who likes the Enfields should fire a few Cordite rounds for traditions sake. I thought the most "different" thing about them was the few pieces of tiny confetti you will occasionally see blow out of the muzzle because of the thin cardboard wad placed over the cordite charge. Cordite rounds are loaded with corrosive primers, so clean accordingly.

[camerl2009]

I would like to have a couple of boxes of Cordite ammo, if anybody has any for sale. I would like to know the smell of Cordite, just once.

i still have a ammo crate full but cant ship to you i would if i could

[daengmei]

SOG has 50 round boxes of Kynoch .303. My box says Cordite and they come on chargers. Even has packing paper but it's very brittle.
http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammunition-1/303-british-manufactured-ammo-2.html

[MtGun44]

In my experience, British primers seem to have a far shorter life than any other country's primers.

Hangfires and misfires are the norm with most of the old British ammo that I have shot.

I wonder if the Cordite has any bearing on this situation, like maybe being harder to light
originally, or perhaps getting hard to light as it ages? Maybe it isn't really the primers, but
the Cordite that is deteriorating with time.

Bill

[camerl2009]

In my experience, British primers seem to have a far shorter life than any other country's primers.

Hangfires and misfires are the norm with most of the old British ammo that I have shot.

I wonder if the Cordite has any bearing on this situation, like maybe being harder to light
originally, or perhaps getting hard to light as it ages? Maybe it isn't really the primers, but
the Cordite that is deteriorating with time.

Bill

maybe the cordite is not getting hit by the flash from the primer
all the ammo i got fires when i pull the trigger.
thay have pull cordite from the bottom of the ocean and it stil worked

the ammo i got was made in ontario no british primers hmmm

[Multigunner]

In my experience, British primers seem to have a far shorter life than any other country's primers.

Hangfires and misfires are the norm with most of the old British ammo that I have shot.

I wonder if the Cordite has any bearing on this situation, like maybe being harder to light
originally, or perhaps getting hard to light as it ages? Maybe it isn't really the primers, but
the Cordite that is deteriorating with time.

Bill

When I salvaged the bullets from .303 POF manufacture duds I found that the primer had ignited but the cordite strands had not.
The strands looked melted on the end near the primer. The strands had a brown hue and a very greasy deposit on them.
When I set a few strands alight they just sputtered.

Cordite is nearly nearly waterproof, but is vulnerable to degradation in temperature extremes.
It sweats nitroglycerine at 125 degrees F, The liquid nitro gathers in the bottom of the case, and is not reabsorbed ,at 40 degrees nitro can come to the surface of the strands but is reabsorbed when the temperature returns to normal.

There were occasional accidents when quickfiring gun ammo aboard ships was exposed to high temperatures for extended periods. The sweated out nitro was unstable and a dropped or hard joseled shell could detonate.

The over the charge glazeboard disc was supposed to be loaded with its coated side facing the propellent, otherwise sweated out nitro would soak into the card giving a secondary detonation source.

German companies held patents on some very long shelf life primer compounds. I think RWS came up with the best primer compounds.

Any ammo stored for decades in the tropics will degrade.
The British took great pains to store ammo of all sorts in temperature controlled storage facilities.

Since cordite hasn't been mass produced since the late 70's, and much of available surplus .303 is far older than that, misfires are to be expected.

One thing seldom mentioned is that old lots of ammo, of various types, that failed regular inspections due to misfires was sometimes broken down, the primers removed, and new primers and charges used to reload it. If the powder passed testing for degradation it was sometimes reused to fill the remanufactured rounds.
Also some ammunition has been loaded using cases decades old but left unused for one reason or another.
One might find ammo loaded only a few years back with headstamps from WW2 or other dates from the cold war.

[camerl2009]

its smooth just a little bit of rifling left as noted before i slug it and there where little to no grooves in the ball yes i was using a .319 ball for this
no one over here would bore the barrel out. unless thay where making a .410 shotgun out of it. i found 3 crates of this ammo 1 was almost all gone
the other 2 where full i shot what was left and a carte my self in this gun only.
as my grandfather never shot the one he came home with(affter he came back that is) ive never shot that one. only the one thats now smooth ive cleaned
this gun and ran bore brite in it. it was a beater gun but i now rebarreled it
yes .303 for now :D i still have the old barrel mite line it for a .22-.303

ya it was a beater gun lol my grandfather only payed $25 for it lol