Overshot a deer.

[44man]

I have not had a shot in a week. This morning I had some come in and I got a nice clear shot. I went over her back.
The .475 has to be held so hard so recoil does not raise the barrel too high. I forgot! :groner:
I went down and shot off hand at 50 yards at my steel plate. I hit the top of it, started to dial the red dot until I was centered.
It took 6 clicks down from the sandbag setting.
I shot at a pint water bottle and hit it. Now I need another shot.

[JesterGrin_1]

I do not believe you missed a Deer it must have been a Jackolope lol as I do not think you could miss a big ole Deer. :)

[44man]

I do not believe you missed a Deer it must have been a Jackolope lol as I do not think you could miss a big ole Deer. :)
Yup, I sure did! I relax too much and forget to hold real hard with the big kickers so I feel it is best to sight in off hand with a normal hold.
I had some 2" groups at 50 yards but the amount of hold pressure sure made a huge difference in elevation.
I put a pan on a stick where the deer was and over shot it 3 times until I really bore down, then I hit it.
It gets confusing because I killed a lot of deer with the gun.

[BABore]

I have not had a shot in a week. This morning I had some come in and I got a nice clear shot. I went over her back.
The .475 has to be held so hard so recoil does not raise the barrel too high. I forgot! :groner:
I went down and shot off hand at 50 yards at my steel plate. I hit the top of it, started to dial the red dot until I was centered.
It took 6 clicks down from the sandbag setting.
I shot at a pint water bottle and hit it. Now I need another shot.

Maybe a little trailer to haul the bench and bags with you too.:bigsmyl2: :takinWiz: :razz:

[44man]

Maybe a little trailer to haul the bench and bags with you too.:bigsmyl2: :takinWiz: :razz:
:bigsmyl2:You will not believe How many times I think of a rest in the stands. All of mine are for archery so there are no rails. I have to shoot off hand.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
WEll that would be upsetting. Maybe someone will design a pressure pad glove that gives a readout how much squeeze the shooter is putting on the stock.

[crabo]

Use a shooting stick, or sticks

[Groo]

Groo here
If you look at the old photos of Mr. Keith [hats off please] you will
find that he allows the gun to "run "some ,aka, does not hold hard with the off hand
and just rides the kick ..
That is with his 4 in m-29 44 mag.
Try the same with your 475.

[atr]

50 yard shot with a 475?...yikes....was this deer wearing iron plating ?

[EOD3]

[SHARP_STICK]

Zero weapon, then shoot!

[SHARP_STICK/]

:kidding:

[white eagle]

Doe Fever [smilie=w:

[Whitworth]

50 yard shot with a 475?...yikes....was this deer wearing iron plating ?

Well what else is he going to use, a weak-kneed .429 magnum? :kidding:

[jwp475]

Overshot a deer.


When I read the title, I thought that he must have shot the Deer too many times

[tek4260]

I shot my 475 at 100yds yesterday. I have it sighted in about 2 inches high at 25, but when I shot it at 100, it was about 5 inches above the bullseye. I guess that is the difference between shooting with my forearms rested at 25 and shooting with the revolver on bags when I shot at 100. I was helping my neighbors 18 year old sight in his new DPMS 308. He was getting 2 inch groups. Garbage trigger and pretty much a garbage rifle IMHO. I shot after he finished to see where mine hit at that range for grins. 2 shots, touching, perfectly centered 5 inches high. 1.5" bullseye and open sights. He is still telling everyone he sees. I hope I don't get asked to repeat that feat. I am glad I shot it at that range because I would have overshot a deer for sure.

[9.3X62AL]

Well, now ya know what occurred--and have taken steps to correct it. Good to go, in other words. May the gods of the hunt look upon you favorably.

[Dennis Eugene]

I'm never surprised by how easy it is to miss with a handgun. Dennis

[Whitworth]

I'm never surprised by how easy it is to miss with a handgun. Dennis

The shocker is that he missed -- very rare occurence and yet it happens to the best of them. He most likely won't miss next time!

[Bass Ackward]

I don't understand that. You worry about accuracy, caliber's, bullets, you carry massive weight guns, and on and on ............... and you still miss like me. There is a message there, I think.

You puckered, you missed.

[Whitworth]

I'll bet you ducks to dollars that he didn't pucker. He just missed a shot. We don't have shooting rails on our stands (I put up a new stand this year and it has a shooting rail but I ended up shooting a doe out of a stand without one - ironic) and all shooting is done essentially offhand. Stuff happens. If you hunt enough you miss occasionally and sometimes you even lose an animal. At 73 years of age with deer deep in the triple digits, 44man is entitled to miss every once in a while.

[44man]

I don't mind a clean miss! [smilie=l:
I posted before several times about taking hair off the top of deer when I first bought the .475 and had to tell myself to "Hold tight."
It is just too hard to reach the level of tightness to prevent barrel rise when hunting. More concentration is needed to keep the dot on a deer and control the trigger so that tight hold gets away somewhere.
I prefer holding the gun like a .44 instead of trying to hold down the barrel.
Now I have to watch I don't hold too tight or I will shoot under a deer! :killingpc

[dvnv]

Could be your grip has weakened a bit...
Could be your grips are a little slick on a cold dry morning...
Your load might shoot a little slower in the cold...
(no idea what the weather was like...just postulating).

I don't like changing my sights because of one day's results. I like to try it again under different conditions and see if it gets back to normal. dvnv

[Bass Ackward]

I'll bet you ducks to dollars that he didn't pucker. He just missed a shot. We don't have shooting rails on our stands (I put up a new stand this year and it has a shooting rail but I ended up shooting a doe out of a stand without one - ironic) and all shooting is done essentially offhand. Stuff happens. If you hunt enough you miss occasionally and sometimes you even lose an animal. At 73 years of age with deer deep in the triple digits, 44man is entitled to miss every once in a while.


This is an excellent post subject and not for what it was intended. IT has nothing to do with age, but everything to do with physical capability. Physical capability SHOULD BE determined off hand.

When you are bagging, you can hold down. The bags become part of the counter to physics of "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. (alignment & recoil) Just because I or anyone else can shoot a gun from bags doesn't mean it or I will shoot it accurately in the field no matter what sighting setup I have on it or how accurate the load was.

Man ought to know and respect his limitations. Or his stand should have shooting rails, bags etc so that he can use and use it humanely.

[crabo]

I'm building some short ladder stands, (6 foot tall), that I can haul around. I am going to put a pocket in the foot rest to hold the base of a shooting stick or monopod.

[Whitworth]

This is an excellent post subject and not for what it was intended. IT has nothing to do with age, but everything to do with physical capability. Physical capability SHOULD BE determined off hand.

When you are bagging, you can hold down. The bags become part of the counter to physics of "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. (alignment & recoil) Just because I or anyone else can shoot a gun from bags doesn't mean it or I will shoot it accurately in the field no matter what sighting setup I have on it or how accurate the load was.

Man ought to know and respect his limitations. Or his stand should have shooting rails, bags etc so that he can use and use it humanely.

Yes indeed, but all that said and he can still shoot well offhand. The only time we shoot off of bags is when we are testing loads.

[RobS]

44man:

I know this may seem out there, but have you ever thought of working on your grip with forearm curls, grippers (the old spring type grip strengtheners), or even just work with stress balls.

I'm a college coach and lift weights all the time with my athletes and credit this to my ability to not be as recoil sensitive. I believe it does help as I somewhat small hands but don't feel uncomfortable or have to grip abnormally hard when shooting my 454 Casull.

It may help, but will take time to work up the strength levels in your hands. Maybe by next year if you get yourself a routine, dispite your hands may be another year older, they could be stronger than they have been in the last 10 to 15 years.

[44man]

44man:

I know this may seem out there, but have you ever thought of working on your grip with forearm curls, grippers (the old spring type grip strengtheners), or even just work with stress balls.

I'm a college coach and lift weights all the time with my athletes and credit this to my ability to not be as recoil sensitive. I believe it does help as I somewhat small hands but don't feel uncomfortable or have to grip abnormally hard when shooting my 454 Casull.

It may help, but will take time to work up the strength levels in your hands. Maybe by next year if you get yourself a routine, dispite your hands may be another year older, they could be stronger than they have been in the last 10 to 15 years.
I am strong enough but it is more a mental problem when hunting. When shooting off hand at targets the original sight setting works to 100 yards. We shoot gallon jugs and even went down to cans. Whitworth and I usually hold 6" at 100 and call the misses. Beer cans at 50 are easy. This is because we hold tighter but when shooting at a deer I forget to talk myself into a tighter hold about 10% of the time. After the shot I cuss at myself for shooting the .475 like I shoot a .44. I can poke the .44 out at a deer on the wrong side with one hand, not so with the .475 because I will shoot way over.
The left hand is very important and has to exert a lot more pressure to hold down barrel rise and that is where I forget.
My sight change is about 3" at 50 so only more shots will tell what happens.
I think I will do better shooting easy instead of fighting the gun, trying to make it hit the same as it does from bags.
These big kickers need more effort then the little .44! :holysheep

[Bass Ackward]

I am strong enough but it is more a mental problem when hunting.


NO! NO! NO! It is NOT a mental problem.

It is the difference between "hunting" and SHOOTING! Bottles don't have horns. You don't have to count points on a bottle. (I do) You don't wait in a tree for hours for a can to roll past. Or figure how much to lead the bottle when moving. These are distractions that make it hunting.

This has been a point that I have tried for years to make but have been unsuccessful when people blindly search for over accuracy or power and do it under controlled conditions. What is strange is how methodical you think when you write about bow hunting. Heavy arrows as an example. Why not use the heaviest weight arrow possible with the strongest poundage bow? But is that thought process there with a handgun?

And this is a trial and error process that is on going. The key is to recognize it. Each person has to answer and it changes as your physiology changes over time. 44 Mag in a heavy Ruger or a Scandium frame Smith?

Regardless of caliber or gun, learn to load sensibly for the task at hand. Just because you have a V-8 in a truck doesn't mean you run it wide open all the time.

So if you limit yourself to supported stand hunting, you can use more though it isn't needed. And you must maintain the discipline that that choice limits. You can no longer allow yourself the fun of the hunt, you must shoot. There is a difference.

I like a .... broader, more flexible option for handgun hunting myself. But I have less of a problem separating hunting from shooting. I imagine that the game animal can shoot back. That is the thought process that helps me make decisions and adjust.

[NHlever]

Stuff happens, no matter how good someone is with their guns. I'm sure you will get another chance, and it will go well this time. We haven't lost a bit of faith in you!

[BABore]

44Man and I have been into this subject privately before. So, I am not dissing him, degrading his experience, or kicking him when he's down. We only disagree on accuracy requirements and technique. (I don't agree with him on alloy, boolit hardness and that stuff either, but that's another topic.) :brokenima

I have traditionally bench fired a revolver with the bbl resting on a soft bag and my forearms, just behind my wrists, resting over bags. The butt of the gun touches nothing. I position the bag heights to keep my arms in a similar attitude as I would when shooting offhand. My accuracy was pretty good with 50 yard groups running 1 1/2 inches and 100 yard groups around 3 inches. Perfectly fine for whitetail deer hunting. Best of all was that my offhand POI was very close to my bench groups. Maybe an inch or so difference in height. Seeing all of 44Man's nice tight groups lead me to our private discussions. After him telling me his bench techniques, I decided to give it a try.

The main difference in our bench technique is at the rear end. Whereas I support my wrists, 44 Man puts a bag under the butt of the revolver. When I tried this I had nice tight groups windage wise, and I could see that my sight movement was much less. What I did encounter was verticle stringing. This is where 44Man's death grip comes into play. A super tight grip, a hard rear bag, and the forcing of the gun into the bags to control recoil all helped eliminate the vertical stringing. I was able to cut group sizes almost in half. The problem for me was twofold, well maybe threefold. First off it didn't feel too natural for me. I'm sure enough practice would have overcome that. Secondly, when firing my 480 SRH with 400 grain hot loads, I found that I could only maintain this technique for a group or two. The heavy hammering on the web of my hand would cause me to lighten my grip. I couldn't physically grip the gun as tight. A short rest would allow me to continue, but it would come right back. No physical strength problem here at all, just the effect of the hammering into my hand. As soon as the grip force changed, groups would open. Finally, I found that bench POI was drastically different than offhand POI. That I didn't like at all. While I could get the better accuracy with this technique, it was just not worth it for me and quite frankly this kind of accuracy is just plain not needed for hunting.

I ended up giong back to my normal technique and started experimenting and learning. First off I rehabilitated myself to keep the danged inside of my trigger finger away from the frame. My hands are large enough than I can almost hook my trigger finger to the second joint on N-frames and SRH's. Pulling it back so just the first pad touches and I don't touch the side of the gun just doesn't feel natural. I can easily force myself to do it correctly on the bench, but offhand is harder for me. Once I conditioned myself to doing it right offhand, horizontal group dispersion was eliminated. The second thing I learned to do, all the time, was to shoot with a very relaxed grip. I let the single actions just roll like they're designed to do. No rubber grips to create drag. I would describe my grip as when you get one of those real wimpy handshakes. With a good trigger and a gentle squeeze these new lessons allowed me to get groups down consistently. One inch to 1 1/4 inch ,50 yard groups are quite common now. For me, benching like this is almost identical to offhand shooting. I've never had to adjust the sight for hunting. I can shoot with a very relaxed grip with my 357's, 41, and 44 mag, even with heavy loads. With my 480, I have to grip a little bit tighter or I lose skin somewhere.

For me, it's all about hunting and practical accuracy. I want my bench technique to closely simulate offhand shooting. I will sacrifice a bit of accuracy so as not to have problems in the field when in the heat of the moment. It's just what works for me and I have less to go wrong. Everybody shoots different and has different requirements, whether justified or not.

[44man]

Babore is correct however all of our bench shooting is to find the best loads and to test only the guns and boolits.
Our hunting practice is all done off hand and that is where my difference when hunting occurs. I can make my revolvers shoot to the same POI off hand as they shoot from bags during practice.
This has not been a huge problem MOST of the time but unlike what Bass has said, deer have no effect on me at all---no buck fever and antlers do not interest me anyway. Therein is the problem, I relax too much with the gun.
The .44 with 320 to 330 gr boolits and the .45 with 335 to 347 gr boolits do not do this to me, only the .475. Even the 45-70 hits where I aim.
You need to experience barrel rise with the caliber and to have fun, shoot it with one hand! :veryconfu
Even Whitworths .500 JRH does not whip up as much, seems to come back more then up.
I can say one thing, Babore will not let these big ones "roll" in the hand unless he has a hard hat and face shield! [smilie=w:
The SRH .480 has an entirely different recoil.
I have to explain the biggest problem I have when hunting and it applies to the bow or rifle too. When the sights are in the right place, the gun or bow will go off with no conscious effort on my part. I never remember pulling any trigger, it just goes off. I have never been able to aim at any animal for 5 minutes, work out hold or pick the space between the ribs.
Everything I need to do must happen before the sights are in position.
Even a running deer is the same, as soon as the lead is there, the gun will fire just like a shotgun on a fast rising bird.
If I see orange anywhere, I can stop the shot and pull away but once all is good, the gun shoots itself.
This is out of my control, unlike aiming at a target where I have to control the trigger.
It has always been this way, even when chuck hunting. I could wait out until everything was right but as soon as it was, the shot was on the way, never ask me when I pulled the trigger, I don't even know it was there.
Now when I put the sights on a deer, if I have not set up the proper force ahead of time, it is too late because the computer will have taken over.

[44man]

Well, it works! [smilie=l: I went out this afternoon after the fierce rain and wind was over. I seen 2 but too far and thick. They moved away.
Half hour later another one came out of nowhere and I got a bang-flop at 53 yards. Fat little buck. He was quartered to me and I hit him in the neck, boolit came out behind the off shoulder. Not much left above the heart.

[Whitworth]

Photos??

[Bret4207]

Your problem can be solved by getting rid of those high dollar boomers and going back to the old standards like the 357 and 44 Special.

Kids and their magnumbs, sheesh!

[44man]

Your problem can be solved by getting rid of those high dollar boomers and going back to the old standards like the 357 and 44 Special.

Kids and their magnumbs, sheesh!
Well, they really are fun to use and they get comfortable to shoot. I feel the BFR's are the easiest as far as recoil and finding accuracy.
I can make my .45 Vaquero kick a lot harder. Even a little .357 can rap my knuckles and trigger finger, I don't get that with a BFR.
Shoot Whitworth's little .500 Linebaugh and you will have all the recoil you can stand! :drinks: He can't talk me into the .50 Alaskan with the slippery grips and the Bisley knuckle crackers.
And then again, the big BFR's are really cheap, not far off a SRH and a lot cheaper then a S&W. I went to the S&W site and got sticker shock. My .475 cost $715 out the door and a friend got a new one on sale for $500.
Another thing is that the big boomers make a loud boom, not the sharp ear splitting blast of a .357, .44 or .454. I forgot my muffs for a shot and the .475 did not ring my ears.
And of course, the way they kill is astounding.
Bret, you would love one. :Fire:

[44man]

Photos??
I didn't get any pictures, camera batteries are dead. I can't charge these so have to go buy some.

[Whitworth]

Your problem can be solved by getting rid of those high dollar boomers and going back to the old standards like the 357 and 44 Special.

Kids and their magnumbs, sheesh!

Why go back to the "old" standards when the new alternatives are so much better?? :kidding:

[NHlever]

While I agree that larger bore diameter, and boolit shape increases killing power in handguns, I don't see the need for all that power at all. John Taffin put a cast boolit completely through a good sized Bison, and I believe he was using his .480 Freedom Arms handgun. Do we really need that much to get a clean kill on a 100# Whitetailed Deer? Certainly bore size doesn't extend our range, or ability to hit a vital spot. My thought is that a .45 Colt boolit that goes through a deer does anything one can do with a .45 caliber boolit. A .454 Casull just might make us feel different about it I guess.

[winelover]

While I agree that larger bore diameter, and boolit shape increases killing power in handguns, I don't see the need for all that power at all. John Taffin put a cast boolit completely through a good sized Bison, and I believe he was using his .480 Freedom Arms handgun. Do we really need that much to get a clean kill on a 100# Whitetailed Deer? Certainly bore size doesn't extend our range, or ability to hit a vital spot. My thought is that a .45 Colt boolit that goes through a deer does anything one can do with a .45 caliber boolit. A .454 Casull just might make us feel different about it I guess.

Couldn't have said it better, myself.

Winelover

[44man]

It is called "progress." Just like the 45-70 was progress and it is still going strong.
I used to think the .357 was easy to get to shoot but after owning a few and working on and shooting hundreds over the years. Seems to me I had to go though many, many bullets, boolits and loads to find what worked. Then if you find a good load, the bullet might be 100% wrong for hunting.
What a lot of you don't know about the larger guns is just how easy they are to find a load with any boolit you grab, I have a pile for each of mine and it only takes one session at the range for each boolit. Most times there is only 1/2 gr powder difference from one boolit to the next. No need for any steenking gas checks either.
Most times I spend an hour or so shooting and am done. Most time is spent walking to targets and I might need 20 shots to finish, some times less.
Many buy a gun and wrack their brain to find the perfect boolit, try all kinds of funky lubes and many pounds of powders then post all over the place about leaded bores, etc.
Others here giggle a little because they have 30 boolits for one gun and can get them all to shoot good.
You have to try them, just don't wimp out looking for 800 fps, the guns were not made for that.

[Whitworth]

While I agree that larger bore diameter, and boolit shape increases killing power in handguns, I don't see the need for all that power at all. John Taffin put a cast boolit completely through a good sized Bison, and I believe he was using his .480 Freedom Arms handgun. Do we really need that much to get a clean kill on a 100# Whitetailed Deer? Certainly bore size doesn't extend our range, or ability to hit a vital spot. My thought is that a .45 Colt boolit that goes through a deer does anything one can do with a .45 caliber boolit. A .454 Casull just might make us feel different about it I guess.

Why do folks presume that because we use this big-bores on deer that we don't hunt other species of animals? Is a .500 needed to kill a deer? Nope. They are not particularly hard to kill, but when I develop a load, I test it on all types of game. Then I will use that load on everything and try to get as proficient as possible with it. They are not for everyone, but if folks don't like the recoil, they shouldn't shoot them. On the same hand they also shouldn't be critical of those who can and do use them. Quite frankly, I have grown bored with the old .429 magnum. But that's just me.

[felix]

No, it's not just you, WW. Folks are now beginning to find new excitement in making HP boolits. More power to you'se guys. However, I bet there are a lot of us just having as much fun watching the results in lieu of doing it ourselves. In addition, I admire those of us who make a good shooting gun look as good as it shoots. In the long run it makes no difference whatsoever. ... felix

[44man]

I got my camera to take 2 more pictures before it quit, lens will not even retract until I get to the store.
I took entrance and exit pictures.
No need for a hollow point and hard lead does great. I shot one of these through a 10" osage orange tree. Without nose deformation the path through an animal is perfectly straight.

[conger]

If hunting game with a handgun was so easy I would not need any of my rifles.

[Frosty Boolit]

How long before your hearing returns?

[Whitworth]

How long before your hearing returns?

Huh? Did you say something? :bigsmyl2:

[btroj]

I have hunted with a handgun before and will again. I do not own anything this large but it would be a blast to have one. Ultimatlely, why own one? Because you can. Any other reason required?

Nice report 44 man. Nice to hear that others make mental errors while hunting. I always thought it was just me!

[ole 5 hole group]

If hunting game with a handgun was so easy I would not need any of my rifles.


It's not nearly as difficult today, as it was a few years ago. The red dots, both tube & heads-up display have made long distant hits pretty common, as will a scope. If you spend a little more money and get one - then the sight alignment requirement of open sights become a thing of the past. You can raise hell with a pie plate at 200 yards with a little effort (practice).

People miss deer/moose all the time with a rifle, so a handgun hunter can miss a time or two also.

[Bret4207]

While I agree that larger bore diameter, and boolit shape increases killing power in handguns, I don't see the need for all that power at all. John Taffin put a cast boolit completely through a good sized Bison, and I believe he was using his .480 Freedom Arms handgun. Do we really need that much to get a clean kill on a 100# Whitetailed Deer? Certainly bore size doesn't extend our range, or ability to hit a vital spot. My thought is that a .45 Colt boolit that goes through a deer does anything one can do with a .45 caliber boolit. A .454 Casull just might make us feel different about it I guess.

For the same reason guys that are 5'5" ride Harleys with really loud pipes and drive 1 ton dually turbo diesels that have never seen anything heavier than a cube of beer in the back.

[chaos]

I got my camera to take 2 more pictures before it quit, lens will not even retract until I get to the store.
I took entrance and exit pictures.
No need for a hollow point and hard lead does great. I shot one of these through a 10" osage orange tree. Without nose deformation the path through an animal is perfectly straight.

Now that's a hardness test ! When I was a kid and my grandfather would go out and Cut wood, I would constanly badger him to let me swing an axe.

One day he gave in and put me on a Bois D' Arc with a hatchet while he was running a chain saw on some near by oaks. I dont think I ever put a dent in it. Those trees will make a chain saw throw sparks and ruin it in short order.

[44man]

Now that's a hardness test ! When I was a kid and my grandfather would go out and Cut wood, I would constanly badger him to let me swing an axe.

One day he gave in and put me on a Bois D' Arc with a hatchet while he was running a chain saw on some near by oaks. I dont think I ever put a dent in it. Those trees will make a chain saw throw sparks and ruin it in short order.
Yes, indeed. I made a bow from one and tried to hand split the rest for firewood. Makes funny little, light sparks when it burns. Some tough stuff for sure!

[white eagle]

I personally would love to have a 475 Linebaugh
and use it on everything from squirrels to 2"saplings

[44man]

I personally would love to have a 475 Linebaugh
and use it on everything from squirrels to 2"saplings
Not good enough, they will go through 16" of seasoned oak firewood! :brokenima

[atr]

I understand that these magnumbs also work on engine blocks :)