Star Lube Sizer Air Feed for Lube Completed & Successful

[Tmaloy]

Hi all,

I have finished up all my testing on pressurizing the Star sizer lube cylinder. I have uploaded the videos to youtube in this thread to show my trip down the modification.

Here is Part 1

The White Dwarf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04oGfv_iOMQ)

Part 2
The Dark Star (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRW1meXnT_s)

Part 3
The Supernova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZR-POVyelw)

Sorry for the cheesy names but I'm in a cheery mood!

Here is the list of parts:
Air Pressure Regulator $16.79
Male to Male 1/4" air fitting $1.99
5/8X18tpi bolt $2.75
Male to Female Swivel 1/4" air fitting with quick disconnect $12.99 (Optional if you already have other fittings)
Fluidmaster Tank to Bowl Repair Kit Part #6101 $2.99
O-rings 50¢ for the one inside the lube cap. On the bolt head 23¢ (It would be best to bring the bolt and lube cap and match up for the best fit.)

Total cost for my current setup came in at around $25 and some machining time. I will stopping by a friends place who has an old air tank that he was offering to me for $10.

If anyone has any questions feel free to reply or PM me.

Now I gotta finish up making some parts for the Lyman Lube sizer to give it the air treatment.

Happy holidays all,

Troy

[wired54]

Just checkedout your Part 3 The Supernova vid.

Question, does the home made cylinder piston need to be a certain length?
If you block off the vent hole and make a shorter piston it could hold more lube. Less time between refills.

It would be interesting to see how much lube you could fit.

[Tmaloy]

Hi wired54,

You can use any size piston you wish if you close up the vent port. I just made a backup piston the same length as the original one so I don't have to use the original and just put it away for safekeeping same as the extractor/plunger stem. One could have a machinist turn and thread a pipe extension to the reservoir and then replace the lube cap with the air regulator and fit 3 or 4 sticks of lube at once depending on the length of the extension.

[Walter Laich]

looks great!

can't wait to see how the Lyman one works out (kinda let's you know the brand I have)

walt

[Fixxah]

Excellent ideas. I will look in the plumbing supply house for the fittings that are needed. There may be a cheaper brass bushing to use. Now I have to drill a hole through block and granite to run a hose from my compressor to run the setup.

[HATCH]

Excellant video.... some ideas I came up with....

Make a homemade plunger. Make it about 1 inch in length. Same basic setup as your turnbuckle but only 1 inch long. Basically the size of the metal "bushing" that is on the bottom of the spring.
Use a 1 1/2inch long bolt.
Block off the Vent hole with a piece of rubber and a hose clamp.
Then load the tube up with lube.
You should be able to get 50% more lube in it.

[Tmaloy]

Excellent ideas. I will look in the plumbing supply house for the fittings that are needed. There may be a cheaper brass bushing to use. Now I have to drill a hole through block and granite to run a hose from my compressor to run the setup.

Fixxah,

You could get an old air tank and just set it in your sizing area. I went to a business called Firecomm that tests outs and certifies fire extinguishers. He gave me an old body and told me I could pressurize it up to 100psi with air to use.

[Tmaloy]

Excellant video.... some ideas I came up with....

Make a homemade plunger. Make it about 1 inch in length. Same basic setup as your turnbuckle but only 1 inch long. Basically the size of the metal "bushing" that is on the bottom of the spring.
Use a 1 1/2inch long bolt.
Block off the Vent hole with a piece of rubber and a hose clamp.
Then load the tube up with lube.
You should be able to get 50% more lube in it.

Here is a mockup of an extended reservoir tube. Might take while to deplete all the lube.

[Fixxah]

Just got home from Home Cheapo. Spent $39 for all needed parts.

The 3/8"x1/4" brass bushing was a hair too big so I tapped the lube cap with a 3/8" NPT tap and all is well. Took about 10 minutes to assemble due to the fact that tapping the cap took 5 minutes. After cleaning out the metal shavings I screwed the cap onto the lube screw and it works as if I never tapped it which I expected.

I will get an air tank to put inside instead of running an air supply from my compressor.

I don't plan on making the short piston since the vent hole serves a purpose and adding lube is a snap. Just don't poke your eye out.

[HATCH]

so you don't intend to go back to the hand screw again?

[deltaenterprizes]

I soft soldered the air hole in my Star that way it is easy to reverse if ever necessary.

[Bob J]

Really nice job Troy! Much appreciate you posting this.....

[Tmaloy]

One thing that I would like to say in my dealings with other people who are avid shooters is that they are some of the most intelligent, self sufficient, and upstanding people I have met. Most of the people in my club are self employed or skilled tradesman. Most are open to suggestion and are always eager to learn something new, sharing information the old fashioned way and just having a good conversation.

I learned alot from others and its only right that information that benefits others should be shared, I have done other things like this to help others and it does not bother me when people say I'm an idiot for not making money on things I do and in not finding better employment with the multitude of skills I have learned over the years.

Everybody says I'm young at 39, but I have had the displeasure of laying my wife to rest after she passed on after a 6yr. battle with a debilitating disease, I sold practically everything I had to help pay for treatments and I took responsibility for raising her 3 children from her first marriage on my $9 an hour income. I had a heart attack a year later, probably from the loss, depression, and job stress. I figured I had better get back to doing something I enjoy. Well I met up with my old club and am enjoying what I used to do. I hope to get off the medications and back in the swing of things.

Doing things like this keeps my mind going and off other things I don't want to think about. If it helps others, I take that as a simple reward.

Happy Holidays and Best Wishes to All.
Troy

[angus6]

Excellent ideas. I will look in the plumbing supply house for the fittings that are needed. There may be a cheaper brass bushing to use. Now I have to drill a hole through block and granite to run a hose from my compressor to run the setup.

Or get a pig, you don't really use any volume of air and a pig is a handy item to have
ETA: guess I should have read the whole thread before posting[smilie=b:

[tinsnips]

I did this modification today on my Star . It was very easy to due. Thanks to Tamloy hard work and smart thinking.

[Frozone]

I did this modification today on my Star . It was very easy to due. Thanks to Tamloy hard work and smart thinking.

You're welcome! I'm glad I could come up with the Idea and produce the original drawings.

Since I can prove I had the idea first, I demand $10 in royalties from all doing this mod. ;-)

[prickett]

You're welcome! I'm glad I could come up with the Idea and produce the original drawings.

Since I can prove I had the idea first, I demand $10 in royalties from all doing this mod. ;-)

Can you guys do the RCBS LAM2 next? :-)

I'd love to adapt mine to a compressor setup.

[CiDirkona]

Can this be made with off the shelf parts? I definitely like to tinker and build stuff myself, but my skills with drilling and tapping are horrendous...

[Frozone]

I think so. It depends on the threads in the top cap and if you find an air fitting that will fit it.

The top piston seal can be a second 'cup' from magma.

[CiDirkona]

What threads is the top of the tube? Maybe it'd be easier just to find a top cap or coupler that screws on rather than using the knurled knob that comes with the press?

[Tmaloy]

What threads is the top of the tube? Maybe it'd be easier just to find a top cap or coupler that screws on rather than using the knurled knob that comes with the press?

Sorry all, I have been down with the flu and bronchitis, I will try to answer some of your questions.

First off, Frozone was the originator of the idea, I just came up with a working prototype. I think we all owe him thanks for the idea. If I had not found his forum reply to a post, I would probably have never done it. Frozone, I'm dried up for now but don't you think $10 for royalties is a little steep for us CB'ers?:kidding:

angus6, mmmm.......I have no idea.....ahhh......nevermind......:confused:

The threads on the lube reservoir are at a quick glance 1-1/4" X 20tpi, this is a not something easily found if found at all. One would have to turn down a quite a lot of material to make a cap with a tapped fitting for the air connection and use an inside threading tool, there is no easy way to do it for now, which is why I have put my lube extension for the Star on hold. It is more cost efficient to make a bushing that fits in to the original lube cap. I'm sure there are forum members here that could machine one out of stock they may have lying around. One member has mentioned that he has ordered a fitting that may just bolt into the cap. I'm sure if it works for him, he would be more than happy to give the part # for all to look out for. I am awaiting word back from him.

The Lyman design I am working on I'm sure will work on the Lube-a-Matic, as they seem to be of the same design. I have an old Lyman 450 body that I'm using as the test prototype, it is missing a lot of parts but just using the body for testing should be enough. I have the plans in my head but, just getting around to machining the one part needed is the hard part. The rest is all hardware bolt on material. I no longer have my 3-in-1 machine so I can only use my buddy's machine at his leisure and his time. Secondly, with the holidays fast approaching I have less time to work on my own projects and must concentrate on my job. I am planning to post a mock-up of the Lyman design or at least a simple drawing of how it would work hopefully within the next week or two.

And now for a little distraction here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCDwuEliAMM) is me!

Happy Holidays to all,
Troy

[CiDirkona]

Neat video -- if I had tried that, I'd be out a video camera! :D

[prickett]

Sorry all, I have been down with the flu and bronchitis, I will try to answer some of your questions.

First off, Frozone was the originator of the idea, I just came up with a working prototype. I think we all owe him thanks for the idea. If I had not found his forum reply to a post, I would probably have never done it. Frozone, I'm dried up for now but don't you think $10 for royalties is a little steep for us CB'ers?:kidding:

angus6, mmmm.......I have no idea.....ahhh......nevermind......:confused:

The threads on the lube reservoir are at a quick glance 1-1/4" X 20tpi, this is a not something easily found if found at all. One would have to turn down a quite a lot of material to make a cap with a tapped fitting for the air connection and use an inside threading tool, there is no easy way to do it for now, which is why I have put my lube extension for the Star on hold. It is more cost efficient to make a bushing that fits in to the original lube cap. I'm sure there are forum members here that could machine one out of stock they may have lying around. One member has mentioned that he has ordered a fitting that may just bolt into the cap. I'm sure if it works for him, he would be more than happy to give the part # for all to look out for. I am awaiting word back from him.

The Lyman design I am working on I'm sure will work on the Lube-a-Matic, as they seem to be of the same design. I have an old Lyman 450 body that I'm using as the test prototype, it is missing a lot of parts but just using the body for testing should be enough. I have the plans in my head but, just getting around to machining the one part needed is the hard part. The rest is all hardware bolt on material. I no longer have my 3-in-1 machine so I can only use my buddy's machine at his leisure and his time. Secondly, with the holidays fast approaching I have less time to work on my own projects and must concentrate on my job. I am planning to post a mock-up of the Lyman design or at least a simple drawing of how it would work hopefully within the next week or two.

And now for a little distraction here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCDwuEliAMM) is me!

Happy Holidays to all,
Troy

Looks like you are shooting black powder in your glock :-)

[Tmaloy]

Yup, can't wait for my CR to get here, just finished all that Magma lube, so I hope to do a smoke comparison. Hoping for the best.

Troy

[rodsvet]

CiDirKona, I just found a fitting at the hardware that threads into the top cap of the star and has 1/4 inch pipe nipple extending out the top [all one piece brass]. The portion that threads into the cap is 5/8 x18. It has a 45 degree gas bevel but once in the cap, you don't see it. The name of the fitting is a 5/8x1/4 male flare MIP ADPT. I pit an O ring and teflon tape on it put it in finger tight and pressurized it to 80 PSI and no leaks!! No machining, threading, tapping or anything, Plug AND Play! Good Luck!! Rod.

[Tmaloy]

CiDirKona, I just found a fitting at the hardware that threads into the top cap of the star and has 1/4 inch pipe nipple extending out the top [all one piece brass]. The portion that threads into the cap is 5/8 x18. It has a 45 degree gas bevel but once in the cap, you don't see it. The name of the fitting is a 5/8x1/4 male flare MIP ADPT. I pit an O ring and teflon tape on it put it in finger tight and pressurized it to 80 PSI and no leaks!! No machining, threading, tapping or anything, Plug AND Play! Good Luck!! Rod.

Rod looks like you have discovered the elusive little bugger we need. Please post a pic and link of your find so we can all enjoy getting blown. Ahem I mean pressurized. Thanks for the update, that's what I love about this forum all willing to contribute to making our hobby more enjoyable.

[D Crockett]

well I don't mean to rain on anyone prade but I hooked up mine 1in 4 bullets was missing lube on part of the bullet I don't have a clue as to what is wrong if anyone can help me out here you would make me a happy camper D Crockett

[rodsvet]

Tmaloy and Frozone, Thanks for the research and the original idea!! Go to the Home Depot web site and punch in 5/8x3/8 male flare union. You will see what the item looks like. Although the one they show has a 3/8 pipe thread on top, you could make it work with a 3/8 to 1/4 reducer. I would shop at a hardware store for the 1/4 inch size and also look for one with a larger wrench size to better seat the O ring. I used teflon tape and an O ring and it seals real well just finger tight. Rod.

[Tmaloy]

well I don't mean to rain on anyone prade but I hooked up mine 1in 4 bullets was missing lube on part of the bullet I don't have a clue as to what is wrong if anyone can help me out here you would make me a happy camper D Crockett

Crockett,

Try and make sure that your size die is clean, with more pressure in the tube it may be filling with little pieces of debris. Make sure your lube is up to temp. Are you using enough pressure? Crank it up a little at a time and check your progress. Sometimes, air pockets can be caught in between and stop lube flow until they are exhausted through the lube port in the lower body. This has happened to me when I have added more lube. I hold my handle down and keep the valve open while air finds its way down and out the lube hole. Add air pressure while doing this to force trapped air out of the lube body. If you hear a few pops that is the air escaping out and lube will jet out right after it.

I had to figure all these out when I first ran this setup. After awhile you begin to feel when their is air trapped in their as the handle will kick back with a little extra spring in it.

If these suggestions don't help, remove the die from the sizer body and add pressure, make sure sufficient lube is exiting the lube port with out the die in place to make sure there is no obstructions inside the lower body. Completely clean the size die and make sure the lube ports are properly plugged and in alignment. I had one die that would shave the bullet and would self seal the lube port. One thing that may be overlooked is that the die set screw is right over one of the lube ports causing the blockage of lube, remove and rotate the die to make sure it is not being covered by the set screw. Do a basic inspection of all your parts and make sure they are working as they should.

Troy

[CiDirkona]

I love this site. Lots of great work on getting an off-the-shelf, low dollar solution.

Are the 5/8 gas pipe fitting threads 18tpi?

[HATCH]

unless you are running soft lube, you will need to run a little heat when you use AIR.
Even with the factory hand setup, I have to run the heater when the temp is below 80 in my shop. Right now with the temps in the 40s, I don't know if I have enough air pressure to push the lube without running a heater and thats with the factory setup.

[CiDirkona]

Alright -- dumb question:

How do you get the knurled knob off the normal pressure piston screw? Either way I go, it can't come off the end of the threaded rod....

[Tmaloy]

CiDirkona,

There is a steel washer that retains the lube cap to the pressure screw it will come off if you hold the knurled cap and continue to turn it off, the washer is a really snug fit. Mine was quite set it there but it should be able to be removed as it is a part that can be replaced easily. Unless Magma changed the design, it should come off, add a little heat, there might be a little sleeve retainer compound to keep it place. My Star is quite old and once I dropped the cap and screw and the washer fell right out. I don't suggest yo do that though...[smilie=1:

Troy

[Tmaloy]

Hi all,

Just got back from Home Depot for a few things and found the part that Rod had mentioned. I have installed and tested the adapter and it works, my only suggestion would be to put an O-ring to help seal the joint, as always use thread sealing tape on the threads. This modification now can be done without machining at all if you desire to do it with just the basic parts. The first pic contains the brass adapter and description along with the air coupler fitting that will thread right on top of it.

Again, thanks to all who contributed to improving this, hopefully now there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this to their Star.

Here are the photos from my iPhone.

[John D]

Tmaloy,
Your first picture shows the HD fitting to be 3/8 x 1/4. I thought the top cap was 5/8.
Just curious.

[Tmaloy]

Tmaloy,
Your first picture shows the HD fitting to be 3/8 x 1/4. I thought the top cap was 5/8.
Just curious.

Hi John,

The top cap is 5/8X18, but this part is made as a half union for gas pipe fittings, just like when you buy an air fitting the size is in reference to the I.D. of the fitting not the actual thread size. I believe in this case that this is meant to able to adapt one size to another, the outside diameter of the side that fits into the lube cap is 5/8, if you do go hunting for this part just go to the hardware store with your lube cap and try it on, it is meant to act as an adapter to fit from a standard fitting to a flare type union. Simply put it works just fine.

Here is a link from the Watts website
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6432

Here is the link from the Home Depot with the exact part I used.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100637993&navFlow=3&keyword=watts+a-182&langId=-1&searchRedirect=watts+a-182&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.integration. endeca.EndecaDataBean%406277ead4&ddkey=THDStoreFinder

All I had to do was add a 1/4" air fitting to one side, and screw the other side into the lube cap.

Make sure you get the Part # that says A-182 and you will be able to bolt it all together. Cost for me was $2.20 at Home Depot.

Happy Holidays,
Troy

[6bg6ga]

This part is in the mail to me and I should receive it mid week.

[Tmaloy]

This part is in the mail to me and I should receive it mid week.

Thanks for the update, it seems we are finding more and more options, we should be able to come up with an average cost to complete the modification. My guess is that once everything is sourced it will come out to less than $25.

Troy

[rodsvet]

After making the air conversion that Tmaloy and Frozone got us interested in, I finally actually tried it out on some 230 gr. ACP. Using carnuba red, low heat, and 30 PSI, and the original piston set up, it WORKED FANTASTIC !! Total parts: 2 O rings--one flare fitting 5/8x14--one pressure gauge from Harbor Freight--one female 1/4 air fitting-- small amount of teflon tape. Total cost $15.81. Of course, I already had an air source. Harbor Freight has their small air tank on sale for 27.99 if you need an air supply. It is so nice not having to mess with the pressure screw. Just keep on sizing! Rod

[Tmaloy]

After making the air conversion that Tmaloy and Frozone got us interested in, I finally actually tried it out on some 230 gr. ACP. Using carnuba red, low heat, and 30 PSI, and the original piston set up, it WORKED FANTASTIC !! Total parts: 2 O rings--one flare fitting 5/8x14--one pressure gauge from Harbor Freight--one female 1/4 air fitting-- small amount of teflon tape. Total cost $15.81. Of course, I already had an air source. Harbor Freight has their small air tank on sale for 27.99 if you need an air supply. It is so nice not having to mess with the pressure screw. Just keep on sizing! Rod

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! Rod, you are sizing what I wish I doing right now!!! :mrgreen: I have about 500 230 RN waiting to be sized, just waiting for the Carnauba Red to come in!!

I'm glad everything worked out for you at an extremely low cost, and thanks for you air pressure settings and temp setting. Now I don't have to experiment cause you did it for me.:drinks:

If you can post some pics of those boolits!! I would like to get a preview of how mine would come out!

Troy

[CiDirkona]

Got all my parts, but all I could find for piston seals were neoprene rubber grommets that just happen to fit perfectly into the tube. What's everyone else using for this? It should work, but I won't know until I try it, I suppose...

[Tmaloy]

Got all my parts, but all I could find for piston seals were neoprene rubber grommets that just happen to fit perfectly into the tube. What's everyone else using for this? It should work, but I won't know until I try it, I suppose...

CiDirkona,

I don't have much experience with neoprene, but I am under the assumption that it is supposed to be a breathable material which may allow air to leak through it, I think, the best thing to do is try it and see if it works. A plumbing supply or hardware store should have something like this.

http://www.doitbest.com/Toilet+seats-Plumb+Pak+Keeney+Mfg-model-411842-doitbest-sku-411842.dib

These will have a firm snug fit that should provide a good seal to maintain pressure. I have a few left over, PM me if you need a couple.

Happy Holidays,
Troy

[CiDirkona]

I found some that were 1 1/4" wide, but that seems like it's way TOO tight to fit. The inside diameter of my tube is 1.087 and the outside diameter of the stock spring pressure piston seal is 1.091. The neoprene gromets fit nearly perfectly, but since they're somewhat odd shaped and get wider when I crank down the washers on them, I'm not sure they'll make a good seal.

I'll try finding those seals. Thanks!

AAAnnnd it suddenly clicks why you have the toilet repair kit in the original post... [smilie=b:

Oh -- and has anyone thought of making a small minitank for the top of the sizer? I'm thinking 8" or so of 1" pipe would have enough volume to keep the pressure relatively stable without having the big tank on my reloading desk.

[Tmaloy]

Ok CiDirkona have you been peeking in my head? I was going to make a video of possibly making such a unit along with some other tips. I have some pieces lying around and was going to give it a shot.

[CiDirkona]

I went to Home/Engineering Depot last night and pieced together all the parts, Basically, there's a 1x8" galvanized pipe on the top, cap on the top end, a three way 1/4" MIP that has a one way check valve (inward) and a male tool disconnect to the side and the regulator dowward with a female disconnect that can drop right onto the male tool disconnect on the knurled knob. Home Depot didn't have any of the one way check valves and I wasn't about to drop $11 or so on a ball valve for something I wanted a check valve for. Harbor Freight has a decently nice regulator for $10 that I plan on getting as well.

I should be able to crank the minitank volume up to around 120psi that my garage compressor can take, and that should hopefully last me a few lube fills, especially if we only need 30psi or so past the regulator. The cheapest 1/4 check valve I can find is on grainger for almost $7... yowch.

Another update: I have 5 different shops to visit today -- but I found all the parts in town. (My friends will atest to this - when I get an engineering goal in mind, waiting for shipping is not an option.) A 1x8" pipe will give me just over 6 cubic inches of 120psi air, which should be good for I'm guessing 3 or 4 sticks of lube worth without a recharge, and no tank on the desk.

[Frozone]

PVC Pipe could be used instead of steel.

[CiDirkona]

I had a tater accelerator pop on me once. I'll stick with steel. :)

PVC would be lighter and larger volume though, that's for sure. Isn't 100+psi a bit much for schedule 40 ?

[Frozone]

Yes, I'd go with schedule 80 in 3" diameter or less, max operating pressure is > 200 psi @ room temp.

[CiDirkona]

Looked around Home Depot for a while and decided to go with the steel minitank.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/utf-8BSU1BRzEwMDAuanBn.jpg

The sad news.... is that it doesn't work. My piston seals work well enough that the piston doesn't move down to the lube and push on it -- and even if it did, it doens't seem to be adding much force due to the short piston and pressures balancing out on top and bottom of the piston without that vent hole being there on a long piston to provide a pressure difference. I'm guessing I'll need a longer piston than the 2" one I'm going with now -- and that vent hole is cucial for making a pressure differenctial.

Second problem is that the minitank weighs so much that it pulls the lower disconnect valve off center enough that it leaks. I could have gone with 'automotive' style' disconnects that may have remedied this issue... but I didn't originally...

Good news is that the tank, regulator and check valve fill system work great. I can charge the tank with 80psi and adjust the pressure around just fine withouth losing much tank pressure. Bad news is that if I ever pull it off and put it on, there's not enough pressure down below the regulator to go past 30psi or so...

[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

[smilie=b:

...aaaand I'm back to the screw-n-spring pressure system.

[6bg6ga]

Received my adapter thursday and it was worth the wait. It provides a nice large area for the O ring to seal nicely. It looks like the previous picture that I posted.
If anyone is interested it is Russell PN 640980

[Tmaloy]

Looked around Home Depot for a while and decided to go with the steel minitank.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/utf-8BSU1BRzEwMDAuanBn.jpg

The sad news.... is that it doesn't work. My piston seals work well enough that the piston doesn't move down to the lube and push on it -- and even if it did, it doens't seem to be adding much force due to the short piston and pressures balancing out on top and bottom of the piston without that vent hole being there on a long piston to provide a pressure difference. I'm guessing I'll need a longer piston than the 2" one I'm going with now -- and that vent hole is cucial for making a pressure differenctial.

Second problem is that the minitank weighs so much that it pulls the lower disconnect valve off center enough that it leaks. I could have gone with 'automotive' style' disconnects that may have remedied this issue... but I didn't originally...

Good news is that the tank, regulator and check valve fill system work great. I can charge the tank with 80psi and adjust the pressure around just fine withouth losing much tank pressure. Bad news is that if I ever pull it off and put it on, there's not enough pressure down below the regulator to go past 30psi or so...

[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

[smilie=b:

...aaaand I'm back to the screw-n-spring pressure system.

Measure the Star piston bottom seal with a caliper and record the diameter of the original seal. Do the same for the tank washer if you mounted it on the Star piston and try this, get the piston you made and chuck the threaded end into a drill, not to tight that you crush the threads, get a piece of wood and staple some coarse sandpaper on it. Spin the opposite side of the piston over the sandpaper and reduce the rubber washer diameter to the point where it does not have a friction fit inside the lube body or is the same size as the Star piston seal, you want the threaded side to be the one that has all the pressure applied to it. This may solve your pressure negation problem since there is less resistance going downward without equal force being applied against each other. This may even enable you to use less pressure to apply the downward force. Also, do you preheat your lube to make sure it is able to flow freely? Let me know if this helps.

On another note if you had a piece of 1/4" rod equivalent to the length of the home made air tank you made, threaded the rod on the ends a little and mounted nut, steel washer, rubber washers, steel washer again and a nut on each end and assembled one end inside the cylinder and the other passed in through the lube cap. BOOM! a homemade Magma style air cylinder! All you would need to do is mount the regulator on top. Still need an air source though.

[CiDirkona]

I thought about turning down the washers until they fit, but didn't have the time to do so. The grommets seem to work for now, and get a good enough seal that they definitely do the trick. I think I'm going to make my piston longer so that lube pushing end and air piston end are further apart to make use of the vent hole, rather than blocking the vent hole off. I think it'll be the simplest way to fix my dilema. There's a hardware store that carries that exact Do It Best tank washers, but it's a mom n' pop hardware shop that's open for 17 minutes a day...

I only use a TINY bit of heat (only barely noticeably warm) with Carnauba Red. I've found any more than slightly warm makes the lube get white edges and not stick in the groove as well. Tiny bit of heat and and a decent amount of pressure will fill the lube groove perfectly every time.

I lubed about 1500 boolits last night, and I used to average only 300-400 with my LAM in the same amount of time, so whether I get this air piston fancy thing up and running, I'm still more than happy with the way this Star works -- worth every penny.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/IMAG1004.jpg

[rodsvet]

6bg6ga, the picture of the fitting looks like it may be a stainless piece, is it? The common hardware union flare I used works good, but the nut area is a little thinner than I would like for the O ring seal. Where did you buy your fitting and how much? It's good to have an inventory of usable parts for the star!!Good job and Thank You for following up. Let us know how it works for you. Rod

[Tmaloy]

6bg6ga, the picture of the fitting looks like it may be a stainless piece, is it? The common hardware union flare I used works good, but the nut area is a little thinner than I would like for the O ring seal. Where did you buy your fitting and how much? It's good to have an inventory of usable parts for the star!!Good job and Thank You for following up. Let us know how it works for you. Rod

Rod, according to the link I found it is for an Edelbrock intake manifold.

http://tmmotorsports.net/russell/russell_adapter_fitting_specialty_fuel/640980/i-300284.aspx

Hmm....maybe the local speed shop has one of these, I use to love working on my dad's 1980 vette. Never had the chance to hop up my 77 Camaro, cause it was stolen and wrecked....damn thieves. Hope this helps.

Troy

[rodsvet]

Troy, The fitting that 6bg6ga shows appears to be different fitting than the Edelbrock part. Edelbrock owns Russell and none of the sites have a picture. Hopefully he will get back to us and we can check out the fitting. I don't mind the teflon tape, but maybe the fitting he purchased is a better fit on the O ring. I called Magma Engineering and they told me the screw nut for the Star is $11.50 plus shipping. I may pick one up and tig weld a 1/4 pipe nipple into the top to eliminate any potential leak or loosening. Or maybe just use some super epoxy to affix the brass fitting permanently. Hell, it's just fun tinkering around with this stuff. P.S. I picked up a Harbor freight air tank for $25.00 just so I wouldn't have to hear my compressor running in the garage. It works great. For guys in condo's or apartments this would be the ticket. Talk to you later. Rod

[6bg6ga]

Hi,

The picture I posted is the actual fitting. It is a steel fitting that has a zink plating. I purchased it from Pace Performance in Niles Ohio. Their web site is www.paceperformance .com The part sells for $7.54 and has a $9.68 shipping and Paypal cost for a total of $17.22 I would assume that any car parts speed shop could order it. I purchased it because it has a nice surface for the O ring to seal. I purchased it on the 26 of Nov and received it the other day. If I my add that others have found a more cost effective piece.

A picture of the adapter and a 1/4 NPT fitting. Second picture is the fitting and my $6.97 regulator. Regulator is from ebay $6.97 and $3.16 shipping.


http://paceperformance.com/search.html?q=640980

[6bg6ga]

Update

Don't buy the ebay regulator because it won't go below 40 psi.

[AJ Peacock]

Reading this thread inspired me last night. I decided that I should be able to do this mod with nothing more than stuff available at Home Depot.

Here are some pics. It's not the most elegant solution, I did grow up on a farm with no money.

As everyone reading this thread knows, there aren't any fittings at Home Depot that will fit into the top of the Star's cap. But I had another idea. I decided to try to build a compression seal by using a 1/4" x 2" brass nipple and neoprene gromets/washers. The first time I tried putting it together, I couldn't get enough compression on the assembly. So I dis-assembled and used only a single wrap of teflon tape (so I could tighten the fittings a little closer). The second time, everything snugged up nice and tight. I greased the neoprene washer/grommets, so I wouldn't snag them while tightening them.

Here are a couple pics of the parts, assembly and final product.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8422.jpg

I used the 1/2"x1/4" adapter, since it has a little more bearing surface against the neoprene washer than a 3/8"x1/4" adapter.
It might have worked better using 2 grommets, but I only grabbed one. If I ever take it apart, I'll probably open up the hole in the washer and put a grommet there instead.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8423.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8424.jpg


I had to see how high the pressure would hold, I heard a very slight leak at about 70psi. I backed it back down to 50psi and the leak stopped. I was able to move room temperature carnuba red at about 30psi, so I think with my heater on and the air at 20-25psi, I'll be in high cotton. :redneck:

AJ

[CiDirkona]

The home depot part that fits the star cap is A-182, but I do like your creative solution as well.

I finally rebuilt my piston with the Do It Best washers, but they leak just enough that the minitank only lasts a minute or two before draining... I think a 5 gallon desk top tank may be in my near future...

[Springfield]

Forget the air tanks on the bench, just use a small tire filler compressor like this one from Sears. Goes up to 180 psi, lasts dang near forever, runs on 12 volts. I just use an old motorcycle/weedwhacker/alarm battery to run it. Cut the tire filler valve off the end and put a quick disconnect on the hose and hooked it directly to my Magma air tank. Even if the power goes out I am good to go. Mine even has a small air tank built in.

[AJ Peacock]

The home depot part that fits the star cap is A-182, but I do like your creative solution as well.

I finally rebuilt my piston with the Do It Best washers, but they leak just enough that the minitank only lasts a minute or two before draining... I think a 5 gallon desk top tank may be in my near future...

A-182, no kidding. I'll be heading over there tomorrow to do it right :p

thanks,

AJ

[6bg6ga]

I'll be heading out for a different regulator.

Note* The Russell part that I used worked great. I used a double thick o-ring and sealing was no problem with the extra surface area the part had.

The 182-A part works good also. I used an o ring measuring .100X 11/16 outside dia X 1/2 inside dia.

The Russell part works with a .100 thick X 5/8 inside dia X 13/16 outside dia.

I used a 1 1/4 X 1 X 1/8 or #19 o-ring for the screw on cap.

[AJ Peacock]

I gave some thought to making a new plunger for use with the air mod and came up with an idea I think is worth sharing.

Removing the plunger is the best part, sounds like a tater gun going off ! :shock: :redneck:

A picture is worth a thousand words, so

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8426.jpg

I used a 1/2" pvc cap, tubeless valvestem, a couple O-rings and a bit of silicone to hold it all in place. I drilled a hole in the cap, pushed the valve stem up through the hole and chucked it in my drill press. Then I cut a couple slots with a wood rasp. Siliconed the valve stem into the cap and Voila!

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8427-1.jpg

I used a short piece of 3/8" metal tubing to push the plunger down below the cap. I didn't want to push on the valvestem, so I used the metal tubing to push the plunger down.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8429.jpg

To remove the plunger, just add a LITTLE air. I used the full 100psi hose the first time and the plunger AND all the old lube came right up through the top. It's a little disheartening, but once it reaches the top, the air escapes and you can catch your breath. I'll be routing the pressure through the regulator from now on! I think 100+psi is a bit much to raise the plunger :holysheep

Let me know what you think? Total cost is under $2/each, but you end up with enough parts to build 2, since the valve stems come in 2 packs.

AJ

ps: I told you guys I grew up on a farm with no money. I'm absolutely dangerous with a little baling wire and some duct tape.

[rodsvet]

AJ, very interesting idea. How well do the O rings seal in the tube? I find that using the original spring plunger works until air gets beneath it, then you have to remove the assembly and reinstall it. Your idea may make a better seal to avoid the trapped air issue. What is below the tubeless air valve ? Is there an indentation that might fill with lube? Great job!! Rod

[Frozone]

I gave some thought to making a new plunger for use with the air mod and came up with an idea I think is worth sharing.

This is the plunger??
It won't work! It only Appears to work because the old lube is already compressed into the sizer. Add a fresh stick or let it run for a while and you're out of luck.
Air pressure alone will not feed the lube properly, you must have a movable piston.

[AJ Peacock]

This is the plunger??
It won't work! It only Appears to work because the old lube is already compressed into the sizer. Add a fresh stick or let it run for a while and you're out of luck.
Air pressure alone will not feed the lube properly, you must have a movable piston.

I can assure you, that it works. I've posted a picture of the plunger after I added lube and used the sizer, you'll see that the piston has indeed moved down the tube and compressed the lube. (see a post later on this page).

Frozone, the piston moves down the tube after the cap is placed back on and pressurized. The valve stem is to remove the piston by pressurizing UNDER it when you need to add Lube.

AJ

[AJ Peacock]

AJ, very interesting idea. How well do the O rings seal in the tube? I find that using the original spring plunger works until air gets beneath it, then you have to remove the assembly and reinstall it. Your idea may make a better seal to avoid the trapped air issue. What is below the tubeless air valve ? Is there an indentation that might fill with lube? Great job!! Rod

They seal well. I had to slowly enlarge the slots, until the O-rings were just the right diameter to slide very snug in the tube.

I put the air modified cap over it and pressurized it, the plunger slides down the tube onto the top of the lube and presses down on the lube. To remove this plunger once it's down the tube, either grab the valve stem with some long nose pliers, or put some air in it and it will slide back up the tube, so you can put some more lube in. Then put the plunger back in, the cap back on and pressurize as you would with the original plunger in the tube.

AJ

[6bg6ga]

Your idea is different for sure. To me it would seem a more time consuming venture than using the spring loaded piston and a 5/8-18 1/4 NPT adapter. If it works for you and you are happy then go for it.

[AJ Peacock]

I don't think I made it clear how I'm using my new plunger.

Here is what it looks like while in use (with the air mod cap).

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8430.jpg


Here is what it looks like just prior to being removed to add more lube. By applying a little air, the plunger lifts itself up and out of the tube. Hopefully this is clear now.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/AJPeacock_photos/IMG_8431.jpg

It works very well, allows more lube than the spring plunger and is easier to remove than pulling up on the spring plunger to add lube.

Hopefully you guys can understand what I'm doing better now.

AJ

[HATCH]

how much heat you using and what type of lube??

that all plays into the setup.

[AJ Peacock]

how much heat you using and what type of lube??

that all plays into the setup.

The only Lube I've used with this setup is Carnuba Red (very hard) and the universal heater + dimmer switch. I set the dimmer between 1/3 and 1/2. With about 20-25lbs of air pressure, it feeds great.

AJ

[AJ Peacock]

AJ, very interesting idea. How well do the O rings seal in the tube? I find that using the original spring plunger works until air gets beneath it, then you have to remove the assembly and reinstall it. Your idea may make a better seal to avoid the trapped air issue. What is below the tubeless air valve ? Is there an indentation that might fill with lube? Great job!! Rod


Nothing but lube is below the valvestem.

I don't know if lube gets up in the hollow, when I pressurize it to remove the plunger, it pushes it out.

AJ

[rodsvet]

AJ, did you also turn down the exterior of the pipe cap? I have a few 1/2 caps and they are too large to fit into the tube. I may put one in the drill press and use sand paper to reduce the exterior dimension. Again, this is an interesting idea. Thank you for the write up and pictures. I wish I were more computer savy---I don't know how to put pictures in my posts [too old I guess]. Rod

[Daddyfixit]

They seal well. I had to slowly enlarge the slots, until the O-rings were just the right diameter to slide very snug in the tube.

I put the air modified cap over it and pressurized it, the plunger slides down the tube onto the top of the lube and presses down on the lube. To remove this plunger once it's down the tube, either grab the valve stem with some long nose pliers, or put some air in it and it will slide back up the tube, so you can put some more lube in. Then put the plunger back in, the cap back on and pressurize as you would with the original plunger in the tube.

AJ

That looks like it might seal better than the OEM set-up. If it holds pressure without leaking then this might work better for those wanting to try putting a small air tank or chamber on top of the regulator

I love all the "MacGyver" idieas!! Men after my own Heart...Good old American ingenuity!!:drinks:

[AJ Peacock]

AJ, did you also turn down the exterior of the pipe cap? I have a few 1/2 caps and they are too large to fit into the tube. I may put one in the drill press and use sand paper to reduce the exterior dimension. Again, this is an interesting idea. Thank you for the write up and pictures. I wish I were more computer savy---I don't know how to put pictures in my posts [too old I guess]. Rod

Yes, the open end of the 1/2" cap was probably ,05" too big, so I sanded it down a little when I cut the grooves. It seals so well, that it won't pull up without applying heat and really pulling hard, or simply applying air (that is the easy method).

Hope this helps out,
AJ

[6bg6ga]

Not trying to be negative here but it seems like a lot of work, Troy's piston that he made would be easier to put together and easily removed when needing to add lube. If a person turned a piston on a lathe and machined O-ring grooves in it for a top and bottom O-ring this would be a better solution. An easy drilled and tapped hole in which to screw in the stock rod to extract the piston for adding lube. Your solution while working now can only prove to be problematic in the future. Just my .02

[AJ Peacock]

Not trying to be negative here but it seems like a lot of work, Troy's piston that he made would be easier to put together and easily removed when needing to add lube. If a person turned a piston on a lathe and machined O-ring grooves in it for a top and bottom O-ring this would be a better solution. An easy drilled and tapped hole in which to screw in the stock rod to extract the piston for adding lube. Your solution while working now can only prove to be problematic in the future. Just my .02

Thanks for your .02 worth. I'm sure it is worth it.

Please expound on what will be problematic? Of course a 1/4x20 bolt could be used in replacement of the valve stem, but that would make my shoulder hurt everytime I need to pull the plunger out.

If I had a Lathe, I'd have made this using Nylon. From a functional perspective, this solution should be equivalent to a lathed piece of nylon.

AJ

[CiDirkona]

I really like that idea -- I bet it'd be less leaky than my current flat washers design...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/cidirkona/IMAG1010.jpg

[Daddyfixit]

Thanks for your .02 worth. I'm sure it is worth it.

Please expound on what will be problematic? Of course a 1/4x20 bolt could be used in replacement of the valve stem, but that would make my shoulder hurt everytime I need to pull the plunger out.

If I had a Lathe, I'd have made this using Nylon. From a functional perspective, this solution should be equivalent to a lathed piece of nylon.

AJ

AJ, at $2 for two you have a great idea! Would a Delron or Nylon machined piece work better? Probably..but I'll bet for more than a buck!

"To remove the plunger, just add a LITTLE air. I used the full 100psi hose the first time and the plunger AND all the old lube came right up through the top. It's a little disheartening, but once it reaches the top, the air escapes and you can catch your breath. I'll be routing the pressure through the regulator from now on! I think 100+psi is a bit much to raise the plunger"

I dang near killed myself falling off the stool I laughed so hard[smilie=l:
I attend the School of Hard Knocks! Heres to another a Alumni :drinks:

[6bg6ga]

I can't help but think the O-rings are going to come off. Your fit on the assembly is due to hand sanding? If you got lucky it might be close to being round. Probably the best solution is to purchase PN's S107, and AF107 being the HYCAR washer and the Aluminum piston. The HYCAR mounting screw and washer can be sourced locally. Better yet would be to use the aluminum piston and have (2) HYCAR seals one on each end. The top end using a fastener that would screw into the aluminum piston and also have a female thread by which to screw in the extractor rod. This combo would result in perfect seal situation. The assembly could be made of nylon for sure.

I'm not meaning to ruffle any feathers here but sometimes a step back to analyze the time and money spent on something crude does result in something more worthwhile and usable. Its better to do something once than to repeat something less than optimum.

[AJ Peacock]

I can't help but think the O-rings are going to come off. Your fit on the assembly is due to hand sanding? If you got lucky it might be close to being round. Probably the best solution is to purchase PN's S107, and AF107 being the HYCAR washer and the Aluminum piston. The HYCAR mounting screw and washer can be sourced locally. Better yet would be to use the aluminum piston and have (2) HYCAR seals one on each end. The top end using a fastener that would screw into the aluminum piston and also have a female thread by which to screw in the extractor rod. This combo would result in perfect seal situation. The assembly could be made of nylon for sure.

I'm not meaning to ruffle any feathers here but sometimes a step back to analyze the time and money spent on something crude does result in something more worthwhile and usable. Its better to do something once than to repeat something less than optimum.

Consider the feathers un-ruffled :smile: , My boss had me at level 9 of 10 on the "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest Scale". I'm home now and I've dropped back to about 7.5, so all is good until tomorrow morning :groner:

I fit the O-rings by cutting the slots while the part turned on my drill press, the fit is pretty darn good. Held pressure for 2 hours without loosing any noticeable amount on my compressor's gauge.

Take care and have one on me, :drinks:

AJ

[CiDirkona]

Dang, my piston didn't work at all last night. I had the presure cranked all the way up to 80psi for a while too, and it just stopped feeding. I put the stock spring piston back in and everything worked again... [smilie=b::groner:

Hey AJ, wanna make me one? 8-):oops:

[AJ Peacock]

Dang, my piston didn't work at all last night. I had the presure cranked all the way up to 80psi for a while too, and it just stopped feeding. I put the stock spring piston back in and everything worked again... [smilie=b::groner:

Hey AJ, wanna make me one? 8-):oops:

I would if you lived across town.

The shipping costs would triple the cost.

I bet someone in your neighborhood would whip you one up for a cup of coffee.

PM me if you really need one and I'll figure something out.

AJ

[6bg6ga]

Received a small compressor from Menards ($55.00) for Christmas. Nice size with a small tank.

In keeping with the KISS principal I am using the factory original plunger instead of trying to

make something that will probably leak. I am using the adapter A182 from Home Depot. It

has sat pressurized and hasn't leaked a bit. I have taken over the wifes gift

wrapping bench so I can size bullets. * I used a small amount of Scotch 130C rubber splicing

tape and a small clamp to cover the weap hole in the plunger.

[HATCH]

robably the best solution is to purchase PN's S107, and AF107 being the HYCAR washer and the Aluminum piston. The HYCAR mounting screw and washer can be sourced locally. .

AF107 is $12
The matching bolt is $0.25
As far as the HYCAR washer goes, why not use the one you already have?

This is alot of work just to save a little bit of money

Everyone is already buying a air regulator.
The only thing that you will need to purchase now is the air cylinder and make a aluminum piston.

The air cylinder is fine thread while the standard setup is course.

I will toss you this bone
It is manufactured by SMC and the part # is NCMB106-0600
You can purchase it from several vendors for under $30.
Here is a place that has it for $25.20 plus shipping. -> http://www.airlinehyd.com/VS5airlinehyd/webpages/orderonline/ManufacturerSearch.aspx?item_number=ncmb106-0600

The alum piston is $12, the screw for the bottom of it is $0.25 cents. Both can be ordered directly from Magma.

You don't need to make up a extractor because the air cylinder always stays attached to the piston. I take my Air Blow attachment and push it against the bottom air attachment hole on the cylinder and use air to retract the piston.

I got about $50 in my Complete air Cylinder setup.

[6bg6ga]

Hatch,

Took your advice and ordered the cylinder from SMC and the small parts from Magma. Thanks for the cylinder info.

[Dave Bob]

AF107 is $12
The matching bolt is $0.25
As far as the HYCAR washer goes, why not use the one you already have?

This is alot of work just to save a little bit of money

Everyone is already buying a air regulator.
The only thing that you will need to purchase now is the air cylinder and make a aluminum piston.

The air cylinder is fine thread while the standard setup is course.

I will toss you this bone
It is manufactured by SMC and the part # is NCMB106-0600
You can purchase it from several vendors for under $30.
Here is a place that has it for $25.20 plus shipping. -> http://www.airlinehyd.com/VS5airlinehyd/webpages/orderonline/ManufacturerSearch.aspx?item_number=ncmb106-0600

The alum piston is $12, the screw for the bottom of it is $0.25 cents. Both can be ordered directly from Magma.

You don't need to make up a extractor because the air cylinder always stays attached to the piston. I take my Air Blow attachment and push it against the bottom air attachment hole on the cylinder and use air to retract the piston.

I got about $50 in my Complete air Cylinder setup.

Any pics? Would love to see your setup.

Dave

[HATCH]

Any pics? Would love to see your setup.

Dave

It looks just like the factory setup
I had a picture on my phone.
You can see the Star on the Right side of the picture.
My bench is very messy because I am redoing it.
I have since purchased a Roller Handle from Lathessmith. Well worth the money.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/IMG00588.jpg

[rodsvet]

Now that is a great looking setup!! I think we have tried to duplicate the performance using just air and it works to a point, but still not perfect. Thanks for sharing your pictures. Rod

[6bg6ga]

I went the route of using the stock plunger with the hose clamp and rubberized tape over the weap hole in the cylinder and it works fine. With home made bullet lube made with alox, beeswax, and some candle wax I run about 30-35lbs pressure and it works fine. I lubed about 1000 200gr 452460 from a stick of my lube. The only thing I don't like is having to remove the hose clamp in order to allow the stock piston/plunger assy to decend into the cylinder and then putting it back on again. That is my only reason in ordering the small parts from Magma and the cylinder from SMC. I think that without trying to re-invent the wheel that Troy's solution is a logical and cost effective one. Personal observation is that air assisted is the way to go when lubing bullets. I end up with a clean fill in the lube grooves with nothing on the rest of the bullet. I cannot make the same claim when using the original hand operated pressure setup. Never was able to get the pressure quite right when turing the screw either I turned it too far forcing too much lube out or not far enough resulting in lube groves that weren't filled all the way.

[Dave Bob]

It looks just like the factory setup
I had a picture on my phone.
You can see the Star on the Right side of the picture.
My bench is very messy because I am redoing it.
I have since purchased a Roller Handle from Lathessmith. Well worth the money.]

Thanks for sharing the pic. Looks great! :smile:

Dave

[old_haidouk]

"The air cylinder is fine thread while the standard setup is course. "



HATCH, so the threads on the cylinder and S109 are not the same? If I buy the cylinder from the link you posted and the AF107 and AF108 from Magma is exactly like the factory set up?

[HATCH]

If you look at this link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/air.jpg

S109 matches the air cylinder and matches the manual setup (s110)

What I was saying that is different is the standard (non-air) setup is coarse thread (part #'s S131, and the stud that sticks out of the spring assembly s133?). The threads on the air cylinder ROD (not the body) are fine thread. Part # AF107 is threaded all the way thru with fine thread and AF108 is fine thread as well.
Sorry I am not better at explaining.

If you purchase the Air Cylinder and then purchase part #'s AF107 and AF108 then you will be set. You will also need a Regulator and the assorted fittings to attach it.

[old_haidouk]

That makes sense thanks for taking the time.

[rodsvet]

I went out and picked up an air cylinder from Graingers for $34.00, bought the piston and screw from Magma for $12.50. I used the assortment of fittings and air connectors and regulator from my home made air system and assembled it tonight. Wow, it works perfectly. I sized 1,000 357's in under an hour just loping along and never made any adjustments after setting the temperature to warm and the pressure to 35 lbs. for carnuba red. The home made system worked O.K. , but this is really smooth. If your time isn't worth anything or you just like sourcing out the parts and putting it together yourself, it cost about $80-85 to do. For another $15 Magma sells it ready to go. Personally, I enjoyed messing around with making an air system [that does work] but I ended up just duplicating the original system. Good luck on whatever you do!! Rod

[6bg6ga]

Just received the parts I had on order from Magma.

1) AF107 $12.25 Piston

1) AF108 $.20 mounting screw

1)S107 $7.70 Hycar lube follower AKA high class seal

1)S130 $2.00 Pressure spring washer


Total $22.15 plus $6. 56 shipping

The pressure washer is nothing more than a lock washer which could have been purchased from a local hardware store for less than .20

I could have made and or purchased the parts at a fraction of the cost. What a waste of money.

[HATCH]

you only need AF108 and AF107 from magma.
You already have S130 and S107 because that is included with the manual setup.
The Air Cylinder can be purchased for Around $30 shipped.
Total investment should be around $55 or so not including the Regulator.
Harbor Freight has some for like 10.

The advantage to doing it this way is that you can buy the parts when you have the cash and then assemble once you have everything.
Yes alternately you can spend the $100

[6bg6ga]

Just pointing out the high price of the parts. You are correct as you do not need to order all the parts like I did. With the exception of the piston everything can be sourced locally.

[HATCH]

I totally understand. If you had a lathe and a 5/16 fine thread tap you could make the Bushing in under a 1/2 hr of time. Hell you could make 3 in that time. (I am guessing the thread size)

Turn some round stock to .80 in diameter, drill a hole, thread the hole, then part it out in 1 inch pieces.

[6bg6ga]

The Piston is pretty crude its 1" bar that hasn't been turned but crudely cut off to 1.080 The length isn't important + or - .100 is close enough. Yes, I have access to a lathe and know how to run it. The seal measures about 1.085 dia with my calipers. Don't have a mic handy right now. I think I could make a better setup out of nylon machined for several O' rings.

I'm guessing the thread is 5/16-32

[rodsvet]

I think the thread is 5/16-24 for the air cylinder rod. Your right, the piston is just 1 inch of standard aluminum round bar stock. If you make your own piston, you could thread the bottom to 5/16-18 and the upper part 5/16-24 and you could use all the manual parts and basically purchase nothing from Magma. Both systems work but the cylinder way keeps air from getting under the hycar washer so there aren't any air pockets at the plunger. I enjoyed playing around with the system. Rod

[6bg6ga]

I was trying to count the threads with the naked eye only. Sorry for the error. Not sure what thread it is. I cannot find my thread gauge. I can tell you that the thread is the same on both ends on the piece that I just purchased.

[HATCH]

its easier to just thread it all the way thru with the fine thread and just get a fine thread bolt for the seal side.
Basically you just put it in a the lathe, turn to size, drill, thread, and part it off.

If you do 2 separate sizes then you got a extra two steps because you have to unchuck it, then rechuck it and thread it the other thread.

[6bg6ga]

I understand completely. The Magma part is threaded all the way thru with 5/16


no need to have two different threads and complicate things.

[rodsvet]

Just for fun I picked up a short piece of 1" aluminum bar stock. Cut off 1.1 inch piece, squared the ends with a fine flat file, drilled it 17/64, tapped it 5/16-24, polished it with emory cloth, and slightly chamfered the holes. It's a better looking piece than Magma's and cost 39 cents and 30 minutes to make using only a drill press and decent drilling vice to hold everything square. Wish I knew how to post pictures. Incidentally, With this piston and a hycar washer on both ends facing away from each other you could probably just use air pressure and no cylinder. However, I'm done experimenting with the system. Man, this is a long thread. Rod

[6bg6ga]

I'm sure that you made a more perfessional looking piece than the one I purchased from Magma.

I'f I had known what size to drill and tap it I would have made my own on the lathe and it would of only taken a few minutes. Unfortunately the air cylinder that I ordered shortly after Christmas only just arrived the 18th of this month.

My neighbor works at a local plastics supplier in the area and I'm going to see if he can come up with something suitable for a seal to take the place of the expensive Hycar seal at $7.00 a pop.

The $28 for the cylinder,seal, and hardware upsets me considering the minimal amount of work involved in making them. I especially liked being charged $2 for a lock washer that was called a spring.

[Springfield]

If you have a stock Star it already has the seal,and everything else can be bought from McMaster-Carr. And personally I wouldn't bother to make a new seal if I could buy one for 7.00. That's about 18 minutes of my time, not worth the trouble, especially since they last almost forever. But that's just me. And I do have a lathe, just have to make the best use of my time, just not enough of it to go around.

[6bg6ga]

I guess to each his own. When you look at the shipping price of $12 it might look more attractive to make your own. It is to me. I don't like to put up with something sub standard. It wouldn't take me 18 min to make one.

[rodsvet]

You guys are fortunate to have access to lathes and mills. There are so many thing you could better engineer for this stuff. Then again, my spare time isn't worth a lot so screwing around just to see if I can make a better part is kind of fun. Next I think I'm going to look into is putting an air cylinder on an old 40 year old Lachmiller luber that I've had for 35 years. The main rub will be making a new handle that doesn't get in the way of the linkage or the cylinder. Have a great evening! Rod

[HighHook]

Thanks for putting in the time and videos. Great idea!!!

[rodsvet]

Highhook, what area of socal are you in. If you are going to make a cylinder system, I' give you the piston material and tell you where to get the parts. Enyoy!! Rod

[dicko]

As a commercial caster in South Africa, this is of interest to me. Just for the interest of Americans, Star lubers are very expensive here, and very rare. I know of only two besides mine, and I'll be surprised if there are more than a dozen in the country. They are also not easy to get. The State Department has classified Magma as an arms manufacturer, so it is the same process as exporting an artillery piece or a jet fighter. I had to go through the whole end user certificate thing just to get a Star.

Your air conversion is very clever, Troy. I wouldn't be able to buy the bits that you can buy in the US because SA is all metric. Fortunately I have a lathe and can make them. However, I am wondering what the point of the conversion is. I note that others who have done the conversion report that lube flow is more consistent, with the absence of that annoying partial lubing one gets because of the difficulty of getting the spring pressure/viscosity balance right. I do see the advantage of that, especially for commercial casting, in which buyers regard an incompletely lubed bullet as a sign of poor quality.

But my interest is more toward increasing reservoir capacity. Your conversion does not do that if the existing piston and screw are used. I haven't measured anything, but I reckon that a new short piston would double the capacity by allowing two lube sticks. As an aside, I don't buy lube sticks, they are too expensive, I melt the much bigger commercial sticks in a pan and pour it hot into the luber. As the luber is bigger in diameter than the sticks, that is an extra 20%, and it can be poured deeper than a standard 4" stick.

For what its worth, I ran some tests of how far a stick of lube would go. My bullets are almost all single lube groove, 80% are 9mm and 357, the rest being 40 and 45. A standard lube stick lubes just over 1500 bullets. That means frequent refilling of the reservoir in a day long session. Hence my interest in increasing capacity. I don't understand the point of the Star air cylinder. It strikes me as a better idea to use a tube to extend the reservoir. Your air conversion makes that possible. Of course, there are minor technical hitches to overcome, like how to attach it. I should think a female collar internal threaded to marry up the existing reservoir and the new extension tube. Then, you have to get it lined up close enough that the piston will not hang up at the joint. A capacity of three or even four sticks is not impossible, with a potential of 6000 bullets. Right now I'm between houses and my gear is all packed up, so I'm in no position to test my theory. But your conversion has made the idea possible.

[dicko]

Having thought a bit more, Troy's air conversion is so good as it is, and so simple, that attempting to increase capacity by tube extension is probably a bit over the top. A new aluminium or nylon piston about one inch long will free up reservoir capacity to possibly 3000 bullets. Pouring in hot, as I've been doing, gets in more lube than a stick, but then I have to let it cool for maybe half an hour before I can use it. Like I already said, most luber reservoirs are a good bit bigger in diameter than one inch, and will easily take a bigger lube stick. Long ago, before I discovered hard wax, I imported a drum of Alox 2138F and was mixing it with beeswax to make my own lube. I made quite a few hollow sticks for other guys, but I made them 28mm diameter, because that was the ID of the available steel tube I used for a mold, and a 28mm stick fits just nicely into a Lyman or RCBS luber. That's 20% more lube in the same length stick. Would be easy to make sticks to fit the increased capacity of the modified Star.

Guys, I have two questions, please. First, how good is Carnauba wax as a lube ? What do you mix it with, if anything ? And where do you get it ?

Second question concerns heated bases. In the photos I have noticed at least two, including Troy's, that do not look like Magma's. Temperature control seems to be a separate unit. How is that done ? I have a Magma base, but they are not cheap, and when it goes belly up, or I need another for another luber, I need to make it.

[6bg6ga]

dicko

It would be very easy to manufacture a sizer lubricator that would take care of your needs. If you or someone you know owns a mill it would be very easy to make a base that would accomodate a very large lube reservoir. A very small punch press could be adapted to serve as the ram and to time the valve to deliver the lube to the die.

I converted my Magma/ Star to Troys air cylinderless unit but after using it a while bit the bullet and purchased a non-Magma air cylinder. With respect to the base... anyone can make their own. I purchased a piece of 1/2" thick junk aluminum drilled it for the heater (1/4") and for the thermocouple (1/8"). The PID control is quite easy to make.

[Fixxah]

I tapped the cap on my lube cylinder to 3/8" NPT and used a brass bushing to install the male air nipple. Rather that run an air line from my compressor, I found a 5gal air tank at Sears for $23. I put quick connect fittings on it to mount my regulator. For the hose I used a 4' length of 3/8" clear condensate tubing with barbed male fittings with no clamps. Running less than 35lbs will not rupture the hose or blow the fittings out. into it for $50 but I could have done it for half that. You can get the air fittings at Harbor Freight for cheap. my tank has been on since this Saturday afternoon and still holding full pressure.

[Fixxah]

I have a small air leak I think is just the o-ring in the cap. Really annoying to say the least. Gonna make a gasket out of thick leather or a real fat ring.

[rodsvet]

Fixxah, are you using a piston of some sort on top of the lube? Air pressure alone will not work. Is your luber a Star, RCBS, Lyman? I'm sure you have read all the posts of how each guy arrived at his system. Good Luck, Rod

[Fixxah]

I have a Star and am using a piston. It won't run without it. Just bought a brake cylinder rebuild kit for a GM pick-up truck for the cup seals. I the toilet tamk bolt washers do not seal the air even at low pressures. Tried many combinations to find one that works. It is a small leak but if I don't address it now, I will be filling my tank on a regular basis. The tank shouldn't have to be refilled for months if there are no leaks. Plugged the vent hole as well because I could feel air coming from there. My e-mail is Fixxah@sprint.blackberry.net if you have a better idea.

Headed to the dungeon now to try fitting the cup seal to the piston.

[rodsvet]

Fixxah, I sent you an email. Rod

[GrumpyFinn]

I went out and picked up an air cylinder from Graingers for $34.00, bought the piston and screw from Magma for $12.50. I used the assortment of fittings and air connectors and regulator from my home made air system and assembled it tonight. Rod

Thanks for the tip, picked up one from grainger, forgot to pick up the nipples and had to go to HD, what a drag. Works great with toilet tank piston, I just had to tap the nuts again.

[Fixxah]

Ordered an air cylinder from AutomationDirect.com today. Enough screwing around for me. Time is money.

[GrumpyFinn]

Here's an idea for those who still want to tinker with this.

http://www.virtualplacebo.com/halloween/props/pneumatic_piston.htm

I knew I had seen it somewhere but better late than never.

[South Devon Cattleman]

What is the length of the stroke on the air cylinder?

[GrumpyFinn]

I use 6"

[pmer]

Hey guys, I might have missed this but is the air on all the time or is it switch activated?

[rodsvet]

The air is on all the time to keep the pressure against the lube constant. If you don't have any leaks, then you don't use up any air. Once the cylinder is pressurized, the air usage drops to zero until the piston moves down the bore. If you have a portable air tank, you might have to fill it every 10,000 boolits or so. It is a very simple concept. Enjoy, Rod

[readr1]

Thank you for a very useful idea and application.

[cajun shooter]

I use the stock air set up and a air tank from Wally World. I have went three months on the same tank of air. I lube my bullets with about 90 lbs of pressure.

[mike daniels]

i wonder if i can do this to my star ?

[rodsvet]

Mike, yes you can. Just read all the posts from the beginning and for around $50 you should be good to go. It sure beats cranking the screw. Rod

[dimaprok]

Ok, finished reading whole tread. So what's the advantage of using piston vs. original Troy's idea?

[Tmaloy]

The modification was just a way to save time and have more consistency with lube groove fill out on boolits. I powder coat 90% of mine now, but the nostalgia of doing it this way still gives me a little fun.

Mine still works to this day, I like it because it just a simple and easy way to make nice boolits with my Star.

[pcmacd]

Hey, I'm no mechanical dummy, but would somebody please provide some details on the pneumatic conversion for the Star?

Is this some sort of Secret Society???

:-)

[garandsrus]

I added this to the other thread you posted in also. It is pretty easy to make. Some dimensions were given in this thread also, but the only important dimensions are the diameter of the reservoir and the cap thread size. The advantage of a replacement cap is that you don’t need to modify your spring assembly at all.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?387125-WTS-Star-Air-Conversion&highlight=Star+air

[jdfoxinc]

I bought one of these (in the thread linked above) over a year ago and am never going back to the screw piston. If TETOWAKI occurs I'll just use a bicycle pump to pressurize an air tank.