My Marlin won't hit the side of a barn with 158gr Lee

[Dave B]

My Marlin CB 357 reg rifling, shoots a 2ft group at best, at 100yds with Lee 158 RN micro band bullet. I loaded them with 7.4 gr Unique and sized them to .358. Tumble lubed. No Leading. I also tried some with 11gr AA #7 , not any better. This rifle shoots the 125 RF Lee in a 3-4 inch group easy, the 158RF also. Everything sized .358.and tumble lubed. I was hoping for a good long range bullet and the 158RN has a BC that is better. Any secrets out there?

[Maven]

Dave, What is their unsized diameter? What is the diameter of your Marlin's bore? Are the unsized CB's at least .001" larger (diameter) than your bore? If so, have you tried tumble lubing and loading them as cast? If not, have you considered "Beagling"* the mold to increase the diameter of its castings?



*Search the site's archives for beagling or beagling a mold or look for the topic in CASTPICS (bottom of your screen).

[hickstick_10]

I loaded them with 7.4 gr Unique

were did you get that load? its a little intense

I load mine to 5 grains with the exact same bullet out of the exact same gun(1894 cowboy in 357), and get better accuracy then I can hold, lubed with alox, cast from wheel weights. I dont bother sizing the bullets, which may be your problem.

Load some to 6 grains, but theres no real point with Unique.

If you want more thump try 2400 or I use IMR 4227

[runfiverun]

thats a pretty fast load with the unique.
i use 7 grs herco with my 158 rnfp and it is good out to hitting 200 yd rams [won't always tip them though]
you might have some skidding in the bbl. and it won't always show up with leading.
try slowing it down [or the powder at least],unsizing the boolit, or waterdropping the alloy.
you might need to do all three
or at least the last two to make the speed work.

[Larry Gibson]

Intense is an understatement, especially for a PB'd TL bullet. Not an over load for the rifle but just "intense" for that cast bullet. I'd back off to 5 gr and work up in .3 gr increments until accuracy went south.

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

Dave B

Ditto to what has already been said.


Back off the accelerator.................

[fecmech]

I shoot the 158 TL swc over 5.8/Unique out of a Rossi 92 and it runs 3-4MOA out to 200 yds. Load clocks around 1120 FPS and I shoot it unsized. Doubt if it would do much good on a full size ram though. I just shoot at a steel swinger for fun.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Lee #2 Manual say 6.2 to 6.8 MAX for that boolit and Unique. Definitely OVER loaded! Like someone said probably the booliit is skidding on the rifling.

Tom



My Marlin CB 357 reg rifling, shoots a 2ft group at best, at 100yds with Lee 158 RN micro band bullet. I loaded them with 7.4 gr Unique and sized them to .358. Tumble lubed. No Leading. I also tried some with 11gr AA #7 , not any better. This rifle shoots the 125 RF Lee in a 3-4 inch group easy, the 158RF also. Everything sized .358.and tumble lubed. I was hoping for a good long range bullet and the 158RN has a BC that is better. Any secrets out there?

[EDK]

Go to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS for some good data for your rifle....the read some more of the articles that might apply.

I like the NOE 360 180 Wide Flat Nose and have sent payment in on the 200 grain Semi Wadcutter group buy.

People have complained that the ballard-style rifling is no deeper than the micro-groove rifling that preceded it. The conventional wisdom on micro-groove was hard alloy, lots of bearing surface, oversize for caliber ...360+, heavier weight like the 180s, and high velocity. A different boolit that fills those criteria might be a better idea...a LEE 358 158 RF (or LYMAN 358665) or the NOEs or a RANCH DOG TLC 360 190.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Dave B]

Thanks for the replies. The micro-band bullet might not like the extra speed of the 7.4 load, although my Lyman book shows 8gr Unique max. The reg groove bullets don't seem to have the problem. I tried some unsized ,but they weren't quite round and they sometime hard to chamber. The BC of the RN bullet is better than the others, and I am looking for a load that I can use a 6 o'clock hold on the chickens and a point of aim on the rams. The 125 RF Lee works pretty good, so I can use that, but it's fun to experiment. I may back it down a little and try again.

[hickstick_10]

Which Lyman book? I have the cast bullet, pistol and the general reloading manual that came with the press.
It doesn't even list Unique powder data for Lee bullets, or any lead bullet over 150 grains.........Unless your looking at a load for a 158 grain JHP :holysheep

Unique will never make a barn burner cartridge for ya, other, slower powders will give you far more velocity for tipping steel, gaining you a couple hundred FPS easily. I've been down the exact same road trying to use Unique for heavier loads, gave up and switched to IMR 4227.

I understand sticking with the powder though, Unique is easily my most used powder as well.

[zxcvbob]

Sorry for the hijack. Do TL boolits (micro bands) not like to be driven as hard as conventional wide-band boolits? I'm getting leading in a .38 Special with my new TL 148 soupcan mold, and figured I just didn't have the lube right yet. It's accurate as heck tho', so I don't really mind scrubbing the barrel a little.

I need to buy a .41 Magnum mold and was thinking about Lee's TL 210 grain SWC. Maybe their 195 grain conventional SWC might be better? Either way, I'm planning to keep increasing the load until accuracy falls apart, then backing off a little. Hope to get to 1500 fps from a 6" revolver but I know that's very optimistic.

[zxcvbob]

Herco is a great powder for 158 grain boolits. It's like a slower-burning Unique. 8.0 is a max load or close to it, and shoots very well, but I haven't tried it with a Lee TL-158-358-2R yet.

[hickstick_10]

I've had problems with leading in my revolver as well, but I think its a throat issue (ruger blackhawk), which is easily solved once I get off my duff.

In a rifle, I havent been able to make a tumble lube bullet lead yet. But I haven't tried 2400 yet, I keep it light with Unique or fast and heavy with IMR 4227.

Check your cylinder throats first.

[Dave B]

Hickstick, the Lyman Manual #44 shows 158gr w/gc 4-8 gr Unique. The 8gr max with the jacketed bullet told me it should be safe with a cast one.

CXCVBob, Try tumble lubing them with Lee Liquid Alox thinned 30-40% with paint thinner. Let dry, and size them with the Lee push thru sizer .358. Then lube them again, and let dry a day or more. Works for me, with some pretty fast rifle loads. Micro band or reg, it doesn't seem to matter.