Mould for 357Mag Lever guns & Pistol

[lmcollins]

I am about to make the purchase of my first mould for 38/357's, and would like to get a mould that will produce rounds that will run through one of the various leverguns as well as my six guns. I was thinking it best to get a gas check mould. Any opinions against this?

As of now I'm thinking of a Lyman 358156 4 banger, or a Saeco #354 RNFPGC 180 grain mould. Midsouth sells the 358156 for $60.00 in the 4 banger. Everyone gets about the same $60.00 for a Saeco 2 banger. Would like the Saeco in four cavity but $120.00 and 90 days of wait is too much - in two ways! Is anyone using either of thes two moulds? If so please comment in your applications. From what I've red the 358156 is about 162 grains from ww. Anyone know what the Saeco comes out at from ww, and if holds enough lube for rifle use with 50/50 Alox?

Your experience and advise would be appreciated. I'd get an LBT 180 gr if they were still in business. (Or should I more appropriately say if Veral ever gets out of hack and back to work.)

[oso]

The 358156 may be a bit small in the nose band for best accuracy - I had better luck after enlarging and tapering the nose band.
I like the Lee 358-158-RF six banger - no gas check but does well at 1400 - 1450 fps (just haven't pushed it any faster) and there is no hang up on the nose band in my Marlin 1894 or speed loading in the revolvers.
That Saeco 354 is a nice looking bullet.

[omgb]

Buy the SAECO and don't look back. I have many many .357 moulds including the two you mentioned. I also have a Marlin 1894 in .357. that SAECO bullet and 14 grains of 2400 shoots clover leafs at 100 yards ....literally, the bullets touch. I can load the mag with 8 rounds and just as fast as my sights settle in on the bull, put all 8 into the bull or the next ring out. That bullet is abso-freeken-lutely amazing in that Marlin. I size .359, use a Hornady GC and size nose first through a Star lube sizer. Nothing else comes close to that with the worst being any bullet under 158 grains. 125 grains bullets are all over the map. Get the SAECO, you won't be sorry. :castmine:

[Jon K]

lmc,

You can get a mold from Veral, omgb just got a 375 mold recently.

You mentioned you'd like a 180 grain, Saeco #399 Great Mold!, It drops out @180 with ww/10%lino. works good for silhoutte pistol or lever. Loads for pistol can usually run higher than large chamber lever.

Jon

[Glen]

For a list of bullets that worked well in my .357 levergun, check out:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/marlin_1894.htm

The Lyman 358156 is an excellent bullet that will shoot well in both revolvers and leverguns.

[lmcollins]

For a list of bullets that worked well in my .357 levergun, check out:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/marlin_1894.htm

The Lyman 358156 is an excellent bullet that will shoot well in both revolvers and leverguns.
Thanks, Glenn. Might try the LBT anyhow. How much bigger is the meplat on that LBT 160 grainer compared to the 358156? Since someone said they just got an LBT.

LMCollins

[bobthenailer]

hi i have the saeco 180 grgc and it is nose is to long to fit the C.O.L. for the proper cycling of the marlin, however you can make it work if you trim your 357 cases to a slightly shorter than trim to length , and keep that brass seperate.
i use the lee group buy 180 fn gr gc without any modfication and this bullet shoots almost as well without the gas checks to at least 1100 fps. bob

[Marlin Junky]

Glen,

Are you Glen E. Fryxell? I enjoyed reading your stuff on the web and also in "Handloader" Magazine (if I'm not mistaken).

I've been waiting years for Marlin to tighten the twist on the 1894 in .44 Magnum. Do you think it will ever happen?

MJ

[imashooter2]

hi i have the saeco 180 grgc and it is nose is to long to fit the C.O.L. for the proper cycling of the marlin, however you can make it work if you trim your 357 cases to a slightly shorter than trim to length , and keep that brass seperate.
i use the lee group buy 180 fn gr gc without any modfication and this bullet shoots almost as well without the gas checks to at least 1100 fps. bob

I had the same experience with the SAECO #353, the non checked version of the 180 grain bullet. I consider red the brass trimming solution, but decided to modify the Marlin's cartridge lifter instead. It is a pretty simple job and easily done with a flat file. I posted on this in the gunsmithing section. Check it out:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7750&highlight=modifying+marlin

[Jon K]

Saeco #399 does not need modification, if you use taper crimp, and seat oal @1.600" or less, if needed to cycle. I used this in a Uberti '73 with no problems cycling, or moving under recoil. I ran this 180 grain bullet @1400fps. Shot very accurate, and never rang a ram@200m.

I did also try the RCBS 180gr Sil, I did modify the metplat of the bullet, because the size was smaller than the primer diameter, but that was too much work.

I also tried the Lyman 358156. It didn't group as well as the RCBS, or Saeco, and the chronograph results were not as good. It would probably be a good bullet out to 100m, but beyond that, I was not impressed. I tried Unique, 4756, H4227,2400 & Blue Dot with this bullet and only tested in the Uberti '73.

Jon

[Pop Gun]

I am about to make the purchase of my first mould for 38/357's, and would like to get a mould that will produce rounds that will run through one of the various leverguns as well as my six guns.


Mr. Collins,

There was a lot of plurals in your statement above. Plurals are not good when we talk cast bullet usuage.

Many guys are unable to find a mold to work with just one rifle and one handgun without serious mechanical alteration to one or the other or both. And even if they do, the loads and conditions will likely be different for each requiring different ammo.

I have been working with 44 mags for 35 years trying locate that mythical "mold". And I have had as high as 14 sizers just for this bore diameter to accomplish this feat. I'm still lookin.

Good Luck.

[Old Ironsights]

You guys with both the Saeco 180 (GC or no) and the LEE C358-180RF GB:

What is the essential difference besides number of grooves and cavities?

I've got the 6 banger, but I find it's sort of a pain to do just one-off castings. Great for production, annoying for research.

(BTW, my lever is a Rossi 92, and my revolver an SP101..)

[imashooter2]

The GB mold has a much larger meplat and a larger ogive radius which combine for a shorter OAL for the same weight bullet. This length reduction is pretty much in front of the crimp groove. Cartridges with GB bullets loaded to the crimp groove in .357 are, IIRC, 1.580 OAL. My SAECO #353 goes 1.610.

[Old Ironsights]

Got it. Thanks.

[DOUBLEJK]

Imcollins
Ifin' this is yer 1st mould and you want it for both leverguns and revolvers....ya ain't gonna do much better than the 158gr RNFP styles by LEE...RCBS....er Lyman
They will function fer sure in the levergun....SWC styles might er might not....the wider the meplat the less likely they will function in the levergun....some of mine will feed a wadcutter n some won't feed a SWC...
Each is a mystery to be unraveled at yer own pace...:)
They probably won't be the top notch best for all your needs but then nothin' else will be neway's...
Yer gonna need more than 1 mold eventually....like at least 6 in .357 size alone....mark my words....[smilie=1:

[biggome]

Be a sport and jump in on the 180 grain non check GB!

We need a few more to get it going last time I checked. I wanted this bullet expressly for use in my 16" Rossi '92 copy under 13.5 grains of pulldown WC-820 for all around use. I may find it shootable in my 'ole 3 screw Blackhawk but not in my SP-101's.

I like to skip the check process as much as possible and just love no-size tumblelubing when I can get away with it for plain old assing around.

I figure the heavier I go, the more of my really slow powder stocks I can burn, if you have a giant stash of quick powder then you should consider the lighter weight boolets. All I want is a good all around boolit for the levergun without leading. I doubt I could have any leading troubles in a wheelgun considering my preference for lower recoil.

Paul

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had good luck with the 150 lee rf.

[oso]

Do any of you push a 180 grain bullet in 357 Mag fast enough to need the gas check?

[imashooter2]

I get 1,703 fps average with 14.9 grains of Lil' Gun. Hard to say if those loads "need" a check, but I use one.

FWIW, I have seen well over book loads of H110 listed on Beartooth that go about 100-150 fps faster than that. Buffalo Bore sells a 180 grain cast .357 mag load that they list as 1,851 fps in an 1894C. They use the Cast Performance 180 grain checked bullet.

[omgb]

You betcha. 14 grains of 2400 will cause that pill to step out between 1600 and 1750 fps. Anything over 1400 fps usually benefits from a gas check. Sometimes you can go faster w/o one but why fool with any leading at all?

[wmitty]

Jon K

You mentioned modifying the rcbs 180 sil to allow loading in tube magazine. Would you describe the modification? I'm faced with this situation and short of filing the point off each bullet didn't see a solution unless the mould was milled flat across the nose, which would increase the angle of the ogive.

[Jon K]

wmitty,

I modified the boolit by removing .020 off the oal. I took an old die, bored it to fit boolit contour and expose about .250, I the made a guide fixture to mount it in, to use on a disk grinder. Doesn't change the boolit much, just enough to make it safer.

I later tried and liked the Saeco #399, shoot just as good, and has larger metplat, with less work.
The RCBS does weigh about 10 grains more than the Saeco.
Both are exellent boolits.

Jon

[Jon K]

wmitty,

I should mention, the only reason I started with the RCBS in a tube feed, is I already had the mold. I had used it in Revolver for Silhoutte, I knew it has a good track record.

Jon

[Slowpoke]

Saeco #399 does not need modification, if you use taper crimp, and seat oal @1.600" or less, if needed to cycle. I used this in a Uberti '73 with no problems cycling, or moving under recoil. I ran this 180 grain bullet @1400fps. Shot very accurate, and never rang a ram@200m.

I did also try the RCBS 180gr Sil, I did modify the metplat of the bullet, because the size was smaller than the primer diameter, but that was too much work.

I also tried the Lyman 358156. It didn't group as well as the RCBS, or Saeco, and the chronograph results were not as good. It would probably be a good bullet out to 100m, but beyond that, I was not impressed. I tried Unique, 4756, H4227,2400 & Blue Dot with this bullet and only tested in the Uberti '73.

Jon

You know the RCBS cast bullet book lists the 180 Sil. for use in lever guns as is.

I have been shooting it in my Win. 94 for years, no problems.

Have I just been lucky ?

good luck

[Jon K]

Slowpoke,

I read that too, and had others say "shoot as is". I have also heard all the talk about cautions using Federal primers, lot of it on this forum and others. I just felt "better safe than sorry"
I was loading it hard enough to head seperate brand new Starline brass, so what's it doing inside the tube?

Everyone has to make his own decision, so that was mine.

Have Fun shooting,
Jon:castmine:

[Slowpoke]

Slowpoke,

I read that too, and had others say "shoot as is". I have also heard all the talk about cautions using Federal primers, lot of it on this forum and others. I just felt "better safe than sorry"
I was loading it hard enough to head seperate brand new Starline brass, so what's it doing inside the tube?

Everyone has to make his own decision, so that was mine.

Have Fun shooting,
Jon:castmine:



That's perfectly understandable.

Good shooting and good Luck.