44 mag. revolver question.

[jfgagne]

Hi,

first : sorry for my English writing, I'm french canadian.

Last week I was a the shooting range with my father to try is new revolver (S&W 686). I liked it! but I think that .357 is not enough powerfull. I know that American Eagle is not a super charge but cheap. I'm just waiting for some casting tool and I will begin 38/357 reloading. I already reload 45 ACP for my 1911 since 2 years.

After shooting I spoked with shooters and one of them let my tried is 44 mag. I know it was a S&W double action. OMFG I'm in love!!! I want one or two...

I'm about buying a 44 and I have many question :

- is it true that Ruger revolver is more tough to handle 44 mag "super charge"?
- is it true that Ruger revolver in simple action is more tough than double?
- which powder is better to reload? I'm using titegroup for my 1911 but for a 44 mag I want sound and fire.
- can I use my Winchester WLP primer (for standard or magnum pistol) or user only large magnum primers from another brand?
- I'm looking for a mold, is 240g in semi wad cutter is a good choice?
- do I need to use gas check?

Sure I'll have more question later but for the moment if you can help me it will make my day.

Thanks,

[leftiye]

Yes, the Rugers are nice strong revolters. Stronger than S&Ws. 296, H110, 2400, 4227 are the top powders in .44 mag. With the first two use your Wlp or any mag primer. For the last two, a standard primer is better.

[Ole]

If you want sound and fire the Ruger Alaskan is the pistol you're looking for.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/Alaskan 44/DSC00072.jpg

:mrgreen:

[2 dogs]

A Ruger Redhawk 4 inch revolver is what you would really enjoy. Very strong. VERY strong revolver....

[jfgagne]

A Ruger Redhawk 4 inch revolver is what you would really enjoy. Very strong. VERY strong revolver....

Because canadian politicians are a$$ holez all pistol/revolver with barrel under 4 in are prohibited. Only grand father have this class...

so I'm looking for :

New Model Super Blackhawk http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkStandard/specSheets/0804.html

I never try it before, is it a good choice?

[jfgagne]

Ole : nice one! I like stainless and pizza

[RobS]

Powders used for butt stomping loads have been listed above however for plinker loads mid burning or even fast burning powders work well too. For now a mid weight bullet will work, something in the 240-265 grain range but if you plan on hunting then the Lee 310 grain RF gas check boolit is really hard to beat. Gas check or plain base: well this is another debate all into itself. A gun that is put together correctly and has a smooth bore will generally shoot PB bullets very well and many people don't use GC bullets for their 44 mags even with full house loads.

Looking at the Ruger class of revolvers then the Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks are single action where as the Redhawk and Super Redhawks are double action. This may be something to consider depending on your intent. Blackhawks have a bit smaller frame so are lighter in weight where as the Redhawks are beefier models and come with a bit more weight. Regarding strength of the revolvers I would rate them in this order: Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, Redhawk and Super Redhawk.

[odis]

I own a red hawk with a 5.5 inch barrel and it will shoot the heaviest 44 loads you can shoot, but to me it is the homely girl that you play around with under the bleachers and ignore in the hallway and the Smith M29 is the one you walk tall with, a crude analogy but I'm drunk right now.

[geargnasher]

IME the M29 is a real bear to shoot well at distance from a bench. Plus the KNUCKLE, OMG. If you've ever shot one you know what I mean. Pachmayr's (sp?) solution makes the gun ride even higher in my hands, adding to the recoil torque and not so good groups. I'd stick with a Ruger, maybe a Bisely as they are much easier to control under recoil.

I shoot plain-based 240-grain hollow points over 1400 fps in a M29, but that is the ragged edge of where it starts to lead. Harder boolits skid less and thus lead much less than softer stuff when it's really pushed hard, I'd say gas checks are not required if you do things right.

Gear

[RobS]

odis: Do you have your beer goggles on? :bigsmyl2:

I would rather buy a Ruger as it is a revolver that you can feed high end loads to all day long and not worry about shaking her loose. They are accurate and function is solid. That's just me though and I've always been influenced with the thought to get the most for my buck.

[9.3X62AL]

The Ruger Redhawk with 5.5" barrel is a stout, capable revolver that can digest all the Magnum loadings you care to fire. You will give out before the revolver does, I assure you.

I use two different SWC designs in my Redhawk. Lyman #429421 is a classic Keith SWC, plain-based, and is quite good to at least 1100 FPS. My other 44 mould is Lyman #429244, a Thompson SWC weighing 245 grains before gas-checking and lube. I have run it well past 1400 FPS in the Redhawk, and it is quite accurate.

As time goes on I shoot fewer of the romp-n-stomp Magnum loads and many more mid-range concoctions. In a Redhawk, the #429421 at 1000 FPS is docile to shoot but quite devastating to game animals. I use such loads A LOT in the Redhawk and in a S&W 44 Special.

[EDK]

The Smith & Wesson is like an arabian horse or a fencing sword; the Ruger double actions are like Clydesdales or a machete. If you load high end loads in the S&W, it will start shaking loose after a time...the endurance package is supposed to correct that problem. With the Rugers, your arms will tell you to quit long before the gun develops problems. The Ruger single action blackhawks are very durable. You really have to abuse the gun to damage it. Anything you buy will probably require trigger refinement.

I daily use 50+ rounds of 44 reloads. Powder is either TITEGROUP or HP38/231, various semi wadcutters or round nose flat points...some with gas checks/others not, with WINCHESTER Large Pistol primers (which are not readily available yet)

You can load 44 magnums at the same power level as your 45...and go higher as you like or need. The lesser powered ammo is kinder to the gun and shooter both! MI-HEC and NOE both make excellent moulds for 240 +/- grain semi wadcutters.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[jfgagne]

Thanks guys!!

[winelover]

REDHAWKS RULE. Why settle for single action when you can have both? S&M M-29's cannot digest the kinds or number of loads that a RH is capable of. Plus, I could never get past the antiquated hammer mounted firing pin on the Smith and Wessons. Super Redhawks are too heavy and just plain butt ugly. JMO.

Winelover:Fire:

[BBA]

Don't overlook a Dan Wesson if you can find one.

[bbailey7821]

You won't be disappointed with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Get a stainless, if you're gonna be out in the weather a bunch. I've run over 20,000 full power rounds through mine. Welcome to the HandCannon addiction!

[testhop]

if you can get a SUPER BLACK HAWK HUNTER you got the best .love mine.
it has a 2-7 scope on it.(old eyes )
also got a S W MOD 29 STELTH it is ok but i favor the hunter.

[fecmech]

jfgagne--Your english writing is head and shoulders above my French writing(which is nonexistent), welcome to the board. If you like single actions your Ruger pick is a good one. As others have mentioned a gas check is not necessary and Lyman 429421 at about 250 grs will do a good job as a hunting boolit and target for that matter. I would also second the recommendations for 296,H110,2400 and 4227 and in that order for your serious loads. Good luck whatever you choose.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have to say I really like the Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter in .44 Mag. You do not have to put a red dot or a scope on them as the factory sights at least to me are fine for work up to say 25 yards or so.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0073.jpg

[Blammer]

I would recommend this.

Ruger Super Redhawk in 44mag 7.5" brl with Pachmyer grips

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/ruger/DSCN6452.jpg

I would recommend any of these boolits.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/44list-1.jpg

the 240gr SWC's plain base ones will be just fine

I shoot the plain base 250gr ones to 1350 fps with just WW alloy and 2400 powder. Pleanty of blast and oomph for you.

If you really want a firecracker load use 2400 and any 200gr boolit. :)

[300winmag]

I have the S&W 629 hunter classic 8 3/8 shoot alot of 300gr. boolits,bought new in 1993 never anything loose or breaking, it been a work horse and a nice shooter.
not knocking any other brands or makers, shop around get what you like and be happy. if not satisfied then change.
good luck
300winmag

[JesterGrin_1]

Well there you go both Single Action and Double Action Rugers that will take lots of punishement and can be used from the factory with iron sights or mount a scope or Red Dot. As the rings come with the pistols to do so right from the factory. Hard to beat a Ruger. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I have the S&W 629 hunter classic 8 3/8 shoot alot of 300gr. boolits,bought new in 1993 never anything loose or breaking, it been a work horse and a nice shooter.
not knocking any other brands or makers, shop around get what you like and be happy. if not satisfied then change.
good luck
300winmag

I also have the S&W 629 Classic. But at least for myself I would not subject the Smith to the same loads I would with the Ruger. But it is a fine pistol.

[RobS]

I would recommend this.

Ruger Super Redhawk in 44mag 7.5" brl with Pachmyer grips



Blammer, not nit picking, are you sure on those grips? They look like Hogue from this side.

If I was a person looking into a double action in 44mag that one would be a very good option.

[TDC]

I see all this debate concerning Ruger Redhawks and S&W 29.

If it's smoothness and functionality you want that will easily digest reasonable 44 loads that will stop any critter on this continent, buy the 29/629 S&W..

If it's power you want, pass on both and buy a S&W 500. That's what I did.... For strength the 500 makes a Redhawk look like it wears pink panties. The 500 puts out about 3 to 4 times the delivered energy of the hot loaded Redhawk... Rugers are fine pistols, but you fans are going to have to get real on the fact they no longer can claim superior strength.

This strength comparison between the 29's and the Redhawks is getting tiresome. There is so much more to handgun choice than strength. As an example and to make a point, I wouldn't drive a "strong" dump truck and expect to win the Indy 500 with it.

Flame suit on..... :D :popcorn:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
What LEFTIYE said is correct.
ONE CORRECTION ON ANOTHER POST,(if someone else has not done it already).
The Superblackhawk is way stronger than the Blackhawk, I have owned both, & the Redhawk & loved them all!

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
HOW I WISH I OWNED ALL THE MOLDS YOU DO FOR THE 44.
I must be content w/ a 250 gr. gc. 4 cavity Lyman, a 265 gr. gc. 2 cavity Ranch Dog , & a 325 gr. gc. 2 cavity Lee.:sad:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I SHOT A 500 ONCE. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could not shoot my 44 for a week because of a bruised palm.

[kelbro]

HI,
HOW I WISH I OWNED ALL THE MOLDS YOU DO FOR THE 44.
I must be content w/ a 250 gr. gc. 4 cavity Lyman, a 265 gr. gc. 2 cavity Ranch Dog , & a 325 gr. gc. 2 cavity Lee.:sad:

That's all the molds that a man would ever need (didn't say want :) )

I love the SBH Bisley Hunter that I have. Great shooter. Easy to load for. Very accurate. With the Eotech 511 sitting on top, I can shoot this thing better than I could ever imagine.

[wheezengeezer]

HI,
What LEFTIYE said is correct.
ONE CORRECTION ON ANOTHER POST,(if someone else has not done it already).
The Superblackhawk is way stronger than the Blackhawk, I have owned both, & the Redhawk & loved them all!

Yes and NO.The old models were different size frames.The new models were the same frames but the blackhawk had a smaller grip.The same as the OM BH and single six with the XR3RED.

[zombie480]

Desert Eagle 44 mag & Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 44 mag
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4crfm/44-1.jpg

S&W 29-3 3" 44 mag
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4crfm/sw29-3a.jpg

S&W 629-1 2.5"
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4crfm/629-1a.jpg


The Desert Eagle and the Alaskan are probably the most comfortable 44 mags to shoot full house loads and both have seen the most range time. I must have reloaded well over 1.5k rounds by now, they're that fun to shoot! Blue Dot, 2400 and AA#9 are among my favorite powders to use behind a 240g bullet (cast & plated).

The S&W 29 and 629 were especially brutal to shoot with magnums but do fine with 44 Specials.

[Blammer]

Blammer, not nit picking, are you sure on those grips? They look like Hogue from this side.

If I was a person looking into a double action in 44mag that one would be a very good option.

Your probably right! :)

[RobS]

This strength comparison between the 29's and the Redhawks is getting tiresome. Then don't read it and move on!!!There is so much more to handgun choice than strength. Very true As an example and to make a point, I wouldn't drive a "strong" dump truck and expect to win the Indy 500 with it. Not a good example at all; two guns shooting the same caliber, 44 mag in this scenario, apples to apples.......................an Indy car race???? no I don't think so, maybe different engine specs, spuspension, etc within the same class of car; definately not dump truck racing going on during the Indy 500

Flame suit on..... Not at all-------- :D :popcorn:

I do know where you are attempting to go here, but people may not want to jump up to a 500 S&W like you or as you suggest. Also this post started as asking about the 44 magnum not the 500 S&W round.

[Thumbcocker]

jfgane;

Revolvers are very personal things. I would suggest that you try to shoot as many different .44's as you can. Maybe at a range that rents guns. My tastes run to Bisley Rugers but not everyone likes that grip. As a practical matter many .44's would suit your needs so you should get the one that you like the best and work up 3 loads, one tagert or plinking, one middle of the road and one hunting full bore. Then shoot the daylights out of your chosen gun. Knowing that the boolit is going to his where the sights are when the hammer drops is far more important that the brand or style of gun in my opinion.

[HATCH]

Maybe you need to try a 41 magnum......

I own a s&w 29 6 inch.
I have never shot it, I got it in on trade.
I am in love with my 41 magnum.

[Jeff H]

I see all this debate concerning Ruger Redhawks and S&W 29.

...........There is so much more to handgun choice than strength..........

Flame suit on..... :D :popcorn:

I am in infrequent poster, but I am jumping on this one. No flame suit necessary.

That's a good point. I love the rugged beef and simplicity of the Rugers, but I have always LOVED the beautiful N-frame too. They are absolutely gorgeous guns and glow with an aura mechanical art. I love the top-down veiw of them in particular, just like the old Mauser actions. May sound stupid, but that weakness has conned me into a 4" 624 (44 Special) and later a 4" 25-something (.45 Colt).

With either of those wonderfully beautiful arms, in those particular chamberings, "strength" was the farthest thing from my consideration. Either would have run for decades with the loads I was using.

The trouble is that they just never handled right for me, with the boreline seeming high and the grips overly large. This is not a criticism - it is whining about the fact that they just don't FIT me. Oh, how I wish they did.

The Rugers, on the other hand do - but only when I put an XR3-RED (smaller) grip frame on the Super BH. I had two beautiful 7 1/2" Bisleys that I loved but could not shoot like I could the Blackhawks or Supers with Blackhawk grip frames. My gunsmith came to the rescue with a conversion on a three-screw BH and later Lipsey's jumped in and made my day but in the 'Special, not the Mag.

So, no, strength may not be an issue at all for many of us when choosing between the Smith and the RUger and even if it were, so many of us don't shoot 10k rounds a year (myself incuded these days), so even then it might not matter in a realistic way for us individually.

I personally would not be able to put the kind or quantity of .44 Mag. loads through a Smith' that I could through a Ruger. I wish I could and I envy those who shoot well with them, as they are fine and beautiful revolvers in my opinion. Now, I think the Rugers are purty in their own right too - no doubt about that. But, yes, there are more things to consider than strength, and unfortunately that goes both ways - to bring the Smith into consideration or, in my case, to rule it out.:(

[MJR007]

My Super Redhawk made me order a 629 Airlite 44mag. It was hard to fill out the money order ($)! I am not sure what will be lighter my holster or my wallet...

[TDC]

Dang..... I thought I'd get more bombs thrown my way....;) Instead I saw some rational discussion with some objective comments everyone should emulate.

I thought someone like RobS would come back with an analogy like..... "Yeh, but you can't drive a wimpy Indy car in the Baja 500 and expect to win with it either..." meaning the Indy car (mod 29) couldn't hold up to the Baja racer (Redhawk) when the going gets really tough...

I though I'd rattle a couple of cages here and I didn't succeed.... I own both Redhawks and 29/629s and love them all for what they are. The frame of the 29 was designed over 50 years ago and it's obvious it wasn't specifically intended for super hot loaded 44 mag ammo. The Rugers are a much newer design fully intended to function with today's hot 44 Mag loads. The Smiths, on the other hand, have had decades of refinement to create a smooth and well balanced shooter. They both have achieved their manufacturers intent as proven by the huge following and loyalty they both enjoy.

I believe we should all be damn glad we have them both.

[herbert buckland]

I had almots given up on my super blackhawk for silhouette shooting as I could not hit any thing past 100 meters then a friend told me to youse longer bullets ,the lee 310gr bullet changed every thing very good acuracy to 300 meters,more recoil but nothing is for free ,now if I can get a hollow point bullet the same lenth I will be happy,I am wating on the Lyman 429640 mould to give it a try but the bullet is not as long as the Lee bullet so I will have to drop velocity to keep the same leval of acuracy

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a number of 44 handguns and if i could only have one it would be my 4 5/8s stainless super blackhawk. Its about the best compromize between ability to hold up to heavy loads, being light enough to pack all day,its even compact enough and light enough to pack in a pancake holster as a ccw gun when needed and being stainless its as durable as a hammer and its very accurate. I love my smiths but i tend to baby them to keep them looking pretty and running well and i also like redhawks but even my 3.5 inch round butted 44 is on the heavy side to pack in a hip holster all day. My super is my go to handgun. Its been shot well over 10k. It is thrown in the truck or jeep and bounce around in there for months at a time. Grab it shake the dust off and it still looks good and hits where the sights are pointing. Theres some kind of compromise no matter what you buy but nothing does so much so well as that gun.

[big dale]

I have always been very happy with my single action Rugers. That silly grin on my face is even bigger when I am shooting my old model Super Blackhawk. I have had either the Blackhawk in 41 Magnum or the Super Blackhawk since the mid 60's. I think you will be very happy with your choice.

I don't shoot all that many full Magnum loads like I did back in the 70's, but still I always shoot a few cylinders full each time I shoot the gun.

I would suggest getting in on a group buy for one of Mihec's H&G 503 group buys and buy a keg of Herco or Unique so you can work up a good mid range load of about a thousand fps. I prefer Herco and have lost count of how many kegs of that powder I have used up in the past 44 years. It likes heavy lead boolits and it is not necessary to have gas checks for them. My experience is that Winchester Large Pistol primers work fine with all the powders I have used including blue dot, 2400, H110. and W-296. Get a pound of each of those to see which you and your gun prefer for the full Magnum loads.

Then just shoot the hell out of it. Those triggers smooth up pretty good once you put about 50,000 rounds thru one of these guns.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[cuzinbruce]

In the first post, you said you love the S&W .44, after you fired one. I would try and fire the Ruger before you make the commitment, see if you like it better than the S&W. As a S&W shooter, I have a 29 and a 629. I like shooting double action. They are also way faster to reload than a Super Blackhawk. Dump all six empties at once. No need for full throttle loads all day long, expecially if you are punching paper, as I mostly am. For bullets, you can't go wrong with the Keith SWC - Lyman 429421 -Ballisticast 503 - Hensley 103. For powder, 231 or Bullseye for target loads, Herco for a mid-range, 2400 for magnums. You may feel recoil a bit more with the S&W, the shape of the grip keeps it from rotating in your hand like a single action grip does. Good Luck.

[44man]

No one can have too many .44's. Sadly I have one left, my 10" SBH.
I fell in love with the BFR .475 and will be getting a BFR .500 JRH soon. Had to sell some guns.
Now I wonder if the little .44 went of or whether it was just a primer! :bigsmyl2:

[cowboy]

Howdy;
If you can bear one more- I have both a S&W 629 with a 5" barrel and underlug, and a Ruger SUPER Redhawk. The Ruger can handle heavy loads without a problem, and because of it's extra size and weight, is less punishing to shoot. The S&W does well with store purchased ammunition, and looks nicer to me.
I'd had a regular Ruger Redhawk ( NOT a Super Redhawk) and found the grip frame to be an odd fit to my hand- please don't tell me to just put different grips on it- grip choices are limited for this model and the problem was the shape and geometry of the metal frame. I like the SUPER Redhawk MUCH more ). The Ruger is my heavy duty choice.

[Texasflyboy]

-Ballisticast 503 - Hensley 103.

Bazackwards. You meant Ballisticast 1103 or Hensley 503.

:-)

[robertbank]

Because canadian politicians are a$$ holez all pistol/revolver with barrel under 4 in are prohibited. Only grand father have this class...

so I'm looking for :

New Model Super Blackhawk http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelSuperBlackhawkStandard/specSheets/0804.html

I never try it before, is it a good choice?

You can get the Redhawk in a 4.2" barrel which are legal up here. I may get one later this summer when funds permit. I'l pair it with my Rossi .44mag rifle.

Take Care

Bob

[MtGun44]

MJR007

329 is a real thumper. Hope you REALLY NEED a light-to-carry .44. I do and pay
the price in $$ and sore hand. Not a plinking gun, IMO. I have other guns of
same configuration that are much more fun to practice with. The 329 is only for
a ammo check and actually carrying in bear country.

Bill

[44man]

MJR007

329 is a real thumper. Hope you REALLY NEED a light-to-carry .44. I do and pay
the price in $$ and sore hand. Not a plinking gun, IMO. I have other guns of
same configuration that are much more fun to practice with. The 329 is only for
a ammo check and actually carrying in bear country.

Bill
Yeah, that bitty thing is worse then a .500! :veryconfu
Some want to shoot 500 gr boolits from a 400 gr gun, wonder which end is worse? :bigsmyl2:

[dla]

I don't know if it is enough longer than 4" to qualify, but here is some info on the 329pd
S&W329pd info (https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/s-w-329pd-info)