hunting load for 7mm-08

[avan47]

I have been casting for over 30 years, so I am not exactly new at this. Most of my successes have been with handgun boolits. I did kill a nice sow hog about 3 years ago with my 30-30 and a cast boolit.

I have a nice light weight bolt action 7mm-08 that I would like to develope a load for. I have the Lyman 2660641, which is a 160 grain GC design. I also have the .285 sizeing die and the correct nose punch. I just boiled out my Lyman 450 sizer which was about a third full of some old alox bees wax mix. I would like to try to get about 2500 fps with this boolit. I have some BAC lube, and some Red Carnauba, but my sizer is not heated. First question: should I water cool or air cool the bullits if I use wheel weights. Secon question: will the BAC lube work at 2500 fps. If I need to use the Carnauba Red, is there a way to get some heat to my sizer to make it work. Last question: does any one have any suggestions for some good loads that will meet my needs. I will try to get there with Varget if I can.

Thanks in advance for the help. I have already learned a lot from this list.

[TCLouis]

Every mold I can find (though not the number you list) that starts with 266 is s 6.5 mm mold.

[MtGun44]

I think he is using the Lyman part number, which nobody uses. The design would be
something like a 287XXX. In my limited rifle experience, getting good accuracy at
2500 fps will be quite a challenge. Making a good hunting load may be even harder
since most seem to use extremely hard boolits for high velocity and often linotype
alloy. Linotype is brittle and will shatter on impact, so is not a good choice for
hunting. Heat treated alloy with the front either soft alloy or softened with the
base in water to keep it hard may work.

I suspect that if you try about 1800 fps and a flat point you may find success a lot
easier and no real need for expansion or will get some with WWt alloy.

Good luck with your project, some report those velocities and accuracy, so apparently
it is possible.

Bill

[avan47]

266 may be the Lyman part number, that is what is on the box. I just took the mould out of its wraping; it's a 287641.

[JJC]

I use a hair dryer to heat the luber, works well for me. Look around others have a metal plate and an electric iron set up.

[RobS]

avan47, welcome to the forum!!!

I've run BAC up to 2200 fps in a 375 H&H with no problems and plan on working up to 2400 fps. I've also worked Carnauba Red up to 2400 fps with great results. Your lubricator will need a bit of heat for the Carnauba Red and some have used heat lamps with success with harder lubes. This is something to consider: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73761&highlight=homemade+heater

Concerning water quenched or air cooled: It will depend on twist rate and velocities as well as pressures. The faster the bullet is pushed the more torch will be applied to it and the faster the twist rate results in the varying degree. A faster twist rate barrel at 2500 fps will be harder on cast boolits vs a slower twist rate barrel at 2500 fps. Also the powder selection is important in load development as a slower powder will give the bullet a gentler start (lower pressures) as it leaves the case and begins its journey down the barrel.

In general at the velocities you're thinking, you may be able to push out 2-6 shots with gas checked AC WW boolits before the bore becomes fowled and accuracy falls off. With water quenched a person can usually extend the number of shots before cleaning is required. All things considered with regards to the condition of the bore of course.

[lead Foot]

I suspect that if you try about 1800 fps and a flat point you may find success a lot
easier and no real need for expansion or will get some with WWt alloy. Bill ~

Bill's on the money there. I have shot a 100kg + boar through the front shoulder with my 7-08. The speed was 1775fps ~ the range was 150 meters + ~ the boolit was a Lee c285-130-r ~ the lead, straight wheel weight. The boolit went straight through the front shoulder and out the other side. I was supprised to see the boolit go straight through such a large pig. Don't give up on your quest ~ all the fun is the experimenting. Hope this helps.
Lead foot.

[runfiverun]

the 7mm will penetrate.
all the above advice is good you might be able to get up to 1950 even but after that you need to search about for the right combo.
i doubt you will just work up with varget powder and the boolit you get from the mold to 20 whatever fps and hold accuracy.
thiings become critical at every increase.
and fit is the first thing you need to overcome.
then the launch and the exit from the bbl. including protecting the base of your boolit.
the lube is involved but b-alox and carnuba has done some impressive work for me with different additives.
alloy and it's manipulation is also another area you'll be exploring.

good luck and keep good notes.
enjoy the journey.

[avan47]

I wish I could report success on my first trip to the range. I knew better than to expect that though. I think I learned a few things. The boolit, I think, was designed for silhouette shooting. It has a long nose that looks like it should ride the lands, a round nose with a very small flat meplate. It looks like it was designed for the 7mm-08, which was also developed as a wildcat for silhouette shooting, because the top half of the gas check to the top half of the grease grove fit inside the neck. With the boolit so seated, the round fits into the rifles magazine, and the last round in the magazine survives the firing of 3 rounds without the nose flattening, or the boolit being hammered deeper into the case.

The first load was 40 grains of H414, the second was 35 grains of H Varget; both seated to COL of 2.818 inches, with a CCI 200 Primer.

Load 1 averaged 2327 fps for 4 shots with SD = 39.7 and extreme spread of 95.5. It looked good on paper at 50 yds with 4 shots into 1.84 inches. The first shot from a clean oiled bore was 2 inches right and 4.5 inches above the other 4. I wire brushed and dry patched the bore before shooting load 2. There was no evidence of leading. Load 2, 5 shots averaged 2284 fps with SD = 46.3 and ES of 111. 50 yd group size was 3.35 inches. Same cleaning procedure as before showed a few flakes of lead. I could not see any leading by looking down the bore, so I think the BAC lube is doing its job. I then fired 5 shots of each load at 100 yds. Load 1, which looked most promising at 50 yds, was all over the target board. Load 2 was better with about an 8 inch group. While cleaning the rifle, I did find some bore leading after these ten shots.

I need work on my casting technique with this mold and try to get more uniform weight boolits. I will sort the boolits I have left by weight, and see if I get any improvement in the 100 yd group. I am also going to reduce the powder charge in the Varget load. I don’t know if I can safely reduce the H414 load since it is a slower burning powder. Does anyone have any experience with reduced loads of this powder in cast boolit loads?

I am using mil-surplus brass which has reduced capacity, and this rifle has a 9.25 inch twist barrel. I have adjusted my goal, and now hope to get an accurate load at around 1900 to 2000 fps. I have no plans to get another mold for this rifle. I would like to make this boolit work. I am interested in info on any other powder/load combinations that might work.

[Von Gruff]

Avan, I use the same 287641 boolit in my 7x57 and have had and continue to have good sucess with it.

I tested it in a number of alloys and with various powders and have settled on 4 loads.
A plinker with 50/50 ww/Pb with a Al GC over 11.5gn Red Dot for 1500fps.
A HV plinker of 70/30 ww/lino with Al GC over 17.2gn Blue Dot for 1900fps.
A hunting practice load of straight lino with Cu GC and 39gn H4350 for 2415fps
A hunting load of a 50/50 softnosed lino shanked boolit, again with Cu GC and 39gn H4350 for 2415fps.
Am going to try the 50/50 boolit over the Blue Dot load at 1900fps as a cross over plinking to hunting load.

All boolits are lubed with my own 2/3 to 1/3 bees wax to vaseline.

It is a good boolit for what you intend and I have had good accuracy on paper and a number of good kills out to 185 yds with the SN lino load. The 1500fps load is a good 50yd 2 in for 5 plinker while the 1900fps load is a 2 in 100yds for 5 and the 2415fps load runs 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 for 5 at 100yds.

I know my load details are of no use to you but they are to show how versatile your mould can be in different alloys and at different velocities. These will be easily obtained with your 7-08.

Von Gruff.

[turbo1889]

Full case, lightly compressed load of Accurate 3100 powder.

Don't know if that will give you enough velocity for your liking but it is my standard go to load for both the 7x57 and 7mm-08 with most sensible cast boolit weights primarily due to that load being very plain base friendly. Or in other words with a good alloy gas checks are not necessary and with gas checks you can go a lot softer on the alloy then one would think you could go in a 7mm rifle cartridge.




P.S. ~ If anyone wants to take offense at the thought of me just saying just fill the case full of such and such a powder. Please go do a little research on the powder in question in regard to the size of the cases in question combined with the bore size in question before posting a flame post.

[avan47]

Von Gruff and turbo 1889, Thanks for the information. anything that I can learn about this topic is usefull to me. I have some 4350, I think it's IMR 4350, that I might try. I don't know if I want to buy a can of Accurate 3100 for this project, but I will investigate the powder. There may be some benefite to 100% load density. What lube are you guys using for these loads? I am still interested in hearing from anyone with experience using Varget or H414 with cast boolits.

(Von Gruff, you answered the lube question in your post. Thanks.)

[Von Gruff]

avan you can treat the H414 data burn rate as H4350 and I understand the IMR 4350 is now at the same burn rate as the H variety.

If you can get a hold of the Jan 1983 Guns and Ammo there is a very good 7mm cast boolit artical that started my casting information base for this cal.There is good base data for the 7-08, 7x57, 280,284, and the 7mm RM.
For the 7-08 most loads fall in 1900-2000fps range with a 145gn NEI mould up in the 2600fps range using 748,760, and 4064 which has a similar burn rate to Varget, as in 38gn 4060 for 2490fps with a lino 145gn NEI moulded boolit.

Von Gruff.

[nanuk]

anyone try w760 for the slow initial push in this caliber?

[turbo1889]

I'm presently using mainly White Label BAC lube; or the pink girly lube as my woman likes to tease me about. I do lightly paint the exposed noses of bore riding rifle boolits after loading with a non-sticky hard drying 3:1 mix of JPW/X-lox as well as the primary lube in the lube grooves.

In the past I have used White Label Canberra Red, Bull Shop Speed Green, Felix recipe home made lube, NRA 50/50, Crisco/Bee's-Wax simple home brew lube (usually a BP lube), Lee Liquid Alox (LLA), X-lox, JPW, and various mix combinations of LLA or X-lox with JPW. The NRA 50/50, Crisco/Bee's-Wax, and the various tumble lube concoctions do start to get a little bit sketchy towards the top end of the spectrum especially when one decides to switch from a plain base boolit to a gas checked boolit with reduced alloy hardness in an attempt to get hunting loads that mushroom without having to soft nose two stage cast.

As to buying a jug of Accurate brand name powder, well since we are talking about a local area company for me those are the cheapest powders on the shelves around here. Probably because the shipping cost is basically zero for us. So, yes, please do help out the local economy in my area and everyone start buying more Accurate and Ramshot brand name powders.

[pls1911]

Leadfoot's message above is spot on.
I discovered early on the silhouette circuit that velocity beyond ~1900 fps is not your friend.
My 7mm TCU and 30-30 should be similar to your 7-08 with respect to cast bullets.
My RCBS 145 SIL at 1900 FPS in a Contender or any one of the 160-180 grain .30-30 bullets at 1900-2000 fps will drop a 300 pound hog through the shoulder RIGHT NOW. (or pound a steel ram for certain)

Higher velocity tends to
1. strip bullets in the bore, causing poor accuracy. ( gas check normally scrapes the leading out )
2. penetrate much LESS than lower velocity ( Lyman CB handbook has a good article on this)

My alloy is roughly 95+% lead, with just enough wheel weights or lino added to cast well.
Soft as cast and fine for non mag pistols, this mix heat treats to 20+ for gas checked rifle use, but without the brittleness of high antimony alloys/Linotype.

Slow your bullets down and watch your pattern tighten to a group.

[white eagle]

aint it fun to take the one step further
and come out smellin like a rose ??