Swedish mauser & Trailboss load data

[JimM]

I am preparing to load some 6.5x55 cartridges using Trailboss and linotype
GC bullets from RCBS 57904 sized to .265 (Montana).
I called Hodgdon for a specific load and was advised that up to the base of the seated bullet is max ( in this case, 15.5 grns ) and min would be 70% less
would be right at 11 grns.
Since these are gas checked, I am thinking that 14 grns should be safe and might
be good enough to stabilize that bullet.
The rifle is a 1915 Gustav Swede.
If anyone has specific, successful loads for this combination, I would appreciate
those suggestions.
thx

[Ben]

You may very well have problems with that .265 " bullet. Many Swedes need a bullet at least .003 " larger.

Keep us posted

[JimM]

Thx.. what KIND of problems? I recently had a case rupture and am a little skittish still. That is why I switched to TB.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't believe I've said so earlier--welcome aboard!

Groove diameters of many Swede milsurps exceed the nominal .264" standard for 6.5mm. This can precipitate leading and inaccuracy. I haven't tried Trail Boss in my 6.5 x 55 (Ruger 77R), so can't help with that.

[Ben]

As Al has described those bullets you currently have will most likely be too small. Need about .268 or so most likely.

[Timmer]

I agree that you need to slug your barrel to determine the correct diameter. I own a 96 Swedish Mauser and when I slugged the barrel I came up with .265" in diameter for that rifle. A friend of mine slugged his rifle and came up with .266". Mine shoots very well with sized bullets of .265"s. Good luck.

[scrapcan]

As to the cae separation, give us some specifics.

It may be that your dies will size the case farther than necessary for the headspace in your rifle.

This can be the same for reformed or facotry brass, pushing the shoulder back will give a cartridge that will not be correct for the headspace on the firearm (measurement on firearm is true headspace)even though firearm may be within spec.

Some older dies are not set up but taking the die down to the shellholder and taking all the slack out.

Tell us what brass you are using and what dies you have.

[JimM]

Took the 96 out and the .265s on top of 14 grn Trail boss worked well at 50 yards ( about my bifocal range without a scope).
My dies are non carbide RCBS. The damaged rifle was a Kimber sporterized swede that was dead on accurate with the Bushnell scope it had. The case failed right at the head, blowing about 1/3 o the primer area out and a horizontal slit right near the case " rim". A part of the radius of the recess area on te bolt face appeared to have been fractured off, perhaps even prior to this episode. The whole story appears in 24hr campfire. Search swede blown. The brass was Remington, loaded 4 times. Shooting trailboss and lead bullets was actually fun.

[Daryl]

What is the estimated velocity from TB on this cartridge? Just an idea of velocity range would be appreciated.

I've picked up two sporterized rifles. One is a carbine that I'm working on now. I have a Lee CM mold and one that I had milled down to use the first lube groove as a GC.

So, I'm reading all the posts to see what & how everyone has done with cast.

[PAT303]

I've shot stacks of TB in my swede,10grns with a 140grn cast shoots MOA at 100 time and again. Pat

[1Shirt]

Pat, will try that load. Jim, have two long Sweds, have never slugged the bore on anything, but agree with Ben on the 268 size. Both of mine like 268, and it was recommended to me when I first started loading 6.5x55's, so I went with it. Think in all probability that most all Milsurps need to be 2-3 Thousands and/or maybe more over what the bore size was supposed to be. Using that philosophy, have been sucessfull with my Milsurps. Come from the old school of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and that goes for loading, and reality.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

Some 6.5x55 brass has a really bad habit of growing long in only a couple of firings. Had a similar problem of blown primers and pockets in the mid 90's while shooting only a light load of IMR 4320. Was shooting a local Hi-Power CMP competition and had to stop immediately because of the problem. The brass had grown so long it was not letting the bullet go. About 1 in 3 cases exhibited this problem. Taught me a very valuable lesson in checking case length after every firing. I can only be thankful the load was light and even with that I can only imagine what the pressure must have been to destroy primer and pocket. It was a 1906 Gustav action. Must have been a good one. The brass was new Norma fired 2 times, this being the third time loaded. Live and learn I guess .....

[PAT303]

I bought hundreds of PMC cases years ago and they do lengthen quite a bit.I spent a few hours a month or so back trimming a pile of the back to length,some needed a good trim too. Pat

[Pirate69]

It is my understanding that a lot of the M96s have long throats; much longer than expected. I checked mine and found a maximum length of 2.178" to allow the bolt to close. I believe that the published data says to trim to 2.155". I am still in the process of setting my rifle up and plan to trim my reformed 30-06 cases to 2.170". This will give me a little more support for the cruise missile. Hope I really understand what I think I understand!!!!

[Multigunner]

Took the 96 out and the .265s on top of 14 grn Trail boss worked well at 50 yards ( about my bifocal range without a scope).
My dies are non carbide RCBS. The damaged rifle was a Kimber sporterized swede that was dead on accurate with the Bushnell scope it had. The case failed right at the head, blowing about 1/3 o the primer area out and a horizontal slit right near the case " rim". A part of the radius of the recess area on te bolt face appeared to have been fractured off, perhaps even prior to this episode. The whole story appears in 24hr campfire. Search swede blown. The brass was Remington, loaded 4 times. Shooting trailboss and lead bullets was actually fun.

I found the Swede Blown thread and it says the case was a Federal rather than a Remington.
Federal has had a number of recalls related to defective cases and defective lots of primers over the years, some due to damaged rifles and at least once after a .303 blew its bolthead and killed the shooter.

I don't use Federal products anymore after reading the recall warnings.

[Larry Gibson]

JimM

You might consider a neck size die or the Lee Collet die ( I use both). This will alleviate the case stretch at the case web that occurs during full length sizing. I would be interested to know the load used that blew in the Kimber?

Also many recommend .268 sizing for swedes but all of mine (4) have tapered throats and require the front 2 or 3 driving bands of a Lovern style bullet to be sized .266 if the driving band is expected to be just off the lands. If I seat a .268 bullet in an uncrimped neck the throat pushes the bullet back into the case. With a softer cast bullet and a crimp the throat then sizes the driving bands on seating.

With loads under 1800 fps a 3GD bullet or a Lyman 266455 sized .266 shoots as well as any .268 sized bullet. When loading to 2100+ fps I size the bullets .268 and then use a seperate sizer to size the the front 2 1/2 driving bands to .266. Thus I can seat the Lovern style bullets so the driving band is just off the lands with a perfect fit in the throat. Doing such does take a couple extra steps and some mae consider it a PITA but if higher velocityies are wanted it works. With you're Trail Boss loads it should not be necessary. I suggest you slug the throat of your M96 and then size your cast bullets acordingly.

Larry Gibson

[David2011]

It is my understanding that a lot of the M96s have long throats; much longer than expected. I checked mine and found a maximum length of 2.178" to allow the bolt to close. I believe that the published data says to trim to 2.155". I am still in the process of setting my rifle up and plan to trim my reformed 30-06 cases to 2.170". This will give me a little more support for the cruise missile. Hope I really understand what I think I understand!!!!

Pirate69,

Have you ever fired a resized .30-'06 case in your 6.5x55? If not, you will find that the case will bulge significantly just above the web. The .30-'06 class cases are smaller than the 6.5x55 by about .007. I just posted on another thread my experience resizing to "make" 6.5x55 cases. I destroyed the brass after seeing the huge bulge caused by using undersized brass. Graf and Sons has Remington 6.5x55 brass for $25.79 per 50. Remington brass has a .30-'06/.308 sized head on it but that won't cause any problems during firing as the case itself is the correct size to fill the chamber.

I started experimenting with resized brass hoping it would feed better in a Mauser 98 I built into a 6.5x55. I was concerned about the difference in the diameter of the brass and it turned out to be a legitimate concern. I ordered the Remington brass when I found out it used the .473" head instead of the 6.5x55 standard .480".

David

[Pirate69]

Thanks for the input David2011. I have not fired a re-sized 30-06 case yet. But I am aware there is a potential for a bulge. I also understand that can be mitigated by using a single wrap of cellophane tape just ahead of the extractor groove. I am in the learning mode at this point, listening and trying what is suggested. If these cases work, they will be used for the 10-12 grain Unique charge range. Will not be looking at any stiff loads with these cases initially. I do have some commercial cases on backorder as a backup. Thanks again for the advice.

[1Shirt]

Have been warned by numerous writers regarding 6.5x55 reformed from O6, and strong warnings not to do so. When a number of writers say no, I listen!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[aprayinbear]

My experience......

When I first bought my Swede I picked up some Winchester ammo to shoot and reload. I began having problems with splits in the neck of the brass. I solved the problem 2 ways; I dumped the Winchester brass and purchased some Privi Partizan from Grafs. Then I began neck sizing only with brass hot formed to my rifle. And to ease the pressure of my modern Lee dies on the shoulder, I used the washer trick (placed over the brass) so that the neck was resized just shy of the shoulder. Problem solved.... :idea:

Also, I now use light loads almost exclusively; generally 12 grains of Trailboss with excellent accuracy out to about 100 yards. And of course there is almost no recoil and very little or no stretch to the brass after firings. [smilie=2:

Shoot Safe, Shoot Often, Shoot tens!:grin:

[freire]

I am preparing to load some 6.5x55 cartridges using Trailboss and linotype
GC bullets from RCBS 57904 sized to .265 (Montana).
I called Hodgdon for a specific load and was advised that up to the base of the seated bullet is max ( in this case, 15.5 grns ) and min would be 70% less
would be right at 11 grns.
Since these are gas checked, I am thinking that 14 grns should be safe and might
be good enough to stabilize that bullet.
The rifle is a 1915 Gustav Swede.
If anyone has specific, successful loads for this combination, I would appreciate
those suggestions.
thx

Hodgdon web page shows that you can reduce 60% of H4895 ,and IMR Trailboss shows up to the base of the seated bullet is max .
and calculation should be 70% of that, X 0.7, if your max is 15.5 your starting point is 7.5 grains.

[Fishman]

Hodgdon web page shows that you can reduce 60% of H4895 ,and IMR Trailboss shows up to the base of the seated bullet is max .
and calculation should be 70% of that, X 0.7, if your max is 15.5 your starting point is 7.5 grains.

Freire, you'd better check your math. 0.7 x 15.5 = 10.85 grains.:holysheep

[freire]

Fishman,i understood the calculation to be 70% of 15.5=10.85x0.7=7.5 but i might be wrong, i apologise

[PAT303]

Just start at 10 and work up. Pat

[BD]

The M94, M96 and M38 swede bolts are surfaced hardened carbon steel and can develope head space issues due to lug stretch over time if loaded hot. If not extreme, this is not that big of a deal as at the design pressures neck sizing is all that's required. If you're seeing a need to trim more than every third loading or so, I'd recommend looking at your head space and going to neck sizing only. The good news is that as far as I can tell, using good brass and good dies, you can neck size pretty near forever without the need to set the shoulder back.

I own a body die in 6.5x55, but to date I've only needed it if moving brass from use in one rifle to another. I use only Lapua and Norma brass in the swedes as the head dimensions are correct, (at .480), and it seems to last forever, making it less expensive in the long run than any US brass I've tried, (US produced head dimension is .473).

My "cast boolit" swede has the tightest chamber and throat of all the swedes I've owned and it will easily keep the 140 grain Jumptrap design at MOA up to 1,700 fps. I haven't felt the need to push cast beyond that as I'm using jacketed bullets for hunting.

BD