S&W Victory Model issue

[dualsport]

Help! I decided to detail clean my old Victory .38 Special. After reassembly it won't rotate the cylinder unless pointed down. Somehow the hand is falling back when I point it up and not engaging. This is the old 'V' prefix gun, does not have the later 'VS' positive hammer block. The old style hammer block is in the plate, kind of a v-spring thing that is supposed to also retain the hand. Any ideas? These are not covered in the Kuhnhausen book, just the newer type.

[akajun]

You forgot to put the hand tension spring back on the little dogleg on the hand. It is the little spring in the trigger that tensions the hand down.

[dualsport]

That was it. It works fine now. Thankyou, that was driving me nuts.

[richbug]

Don't feel bad, S&W neglected to put one in my 610 when new.

[dualsport]

My above post was wrong about the Kuhnhausen book not covering this. It does. Page 41. I missed it. It's called a torsion spring. Once you tear one of these things down the first time it's a lot less intimidating. Now I have another question about the rebound slide spring. I was looking to replace it with a new Wolf reduced power, maybe 16 lb. The rebound slide and spring are different on the older 'V' series. Anybody know how many coils in the original V model spring? It's shorter than the newer ones and I was wondering if mine's been cut. It has a definite 'V' prefix serial number, lanyard ring, but no US markings. I was told it was a Lend Lease gun but there's no 'US Property' on it. I think with a little shimming this thing will be a nice shooter. Thanks again for the help.

[MtGun44]

If it was a lend lease gun it will have originally been in .38 S&W not .38 Special. Many were
reamed longer to take the Special case, but the diameter of the cyl and barrel are too
large for good accuracy and any kind of case life. In these converted guns the .38 Spl
cases bulge badly and sometimes split on the first firing, .357 bullets rattle down a .360 or
larger barrel.

The hand is different from later models, has the ramp on the back to retract the leaf
spring hammer block. AFAIK, the only difference in the rebound slide and spring is the
pin to drive the later style hammer block is missing in the early rebound slide.

Bill

[dualsport]

Well then it was not a Lend Lease gun. I did have a couple of those, .38S&W, kinda green parkerised. This one has the original barrel marked .38 Special, it's numbered to match the frame. It does have that old style hand like you said and the leaf spring hammer block. Maybe I'll just leave the rebound spring alone, the gun works as is. It's several coils short of what Kuhnhausen says the M&P or Model 10 have.

[MtGun44]

Many cut down the rebound slide spring to lighten the double action trigger pull. A couple
of coils is OK if it works fine.

The Victory models were made for Navy pilots in .38 Spl and for Lend -Lease to England in .38 S&W.


Bill

[45 2.1]

Well then it was not a Lend Lease gun.

Be carefull there........... Not everything you read is correct or has full information. Agents from England at that time were buying commercial guns off the shelf to supply theirselves with. I've ran into a couple of those.

[dualsport]

I've been reading up on the Victory models. They did get dispersed pretty good, and with a variety of markings, or not. I have been able to determine that it was probably made in 1943, based on the serial number. I may have mispoke about the finish, it's impossible to tell what the original finish was, nothing but 100% original patina now. But I am happy with it, for the money I spent maybe 25 yrs. ago, it has been an interesting gun. That's what I like about old guns, trying to discover the history of them. What I was wondering is if anyone knew what the GI load was for them? What would a Navy pilot have loaded in his? 158 gr. lead roundnose? Or maybe something heavier? I have several boxes of Win. GI ball ammo from maybe the seventies, it's RN fmj, 125 gr. I think. The boxes are marked M41. They even made tracer ammo for these. Back when I was a squid I traded for a Navy pilot's jacket, the nice leather one with a fur collar and US Navy stamped in the leather flap inside the zipper. It had a good size pocket inside the front left, would have been perfect for a Victory. When I get a few spare dineros I think I'll get a letter from S&W, see what the facts are. It's a rough one, but shoots well enough and is 100% original, even the grips are marked. In my research I found out why S&W changed the hammer block and began the new "VS" series of Victorys. Best to carry the old style with an empty chamber under the hammer. Seems some other squid dropped his on the hammer and shot himself to death. Caused S&W a lot of bad publicity. They are still using the same new style hammer block today. It mounts on the side of the rebound slide.

[MtGun44]

The Navy issued all tracers IIRC from my Dad, who carried one in WW2 as a Naval Aviator. They really intended
to use them more for signalling if downed in the ocean than fighting. They may have had access to regular FMJ
.38 Spl military loads, too, but I remember my Dad telling me about guys in rafts signaling search planes by firing tracers
from their pistols.

Looking at the design of the old hammer block and knowing what the situation is aboard ship, the leaf spring
was probably rusty and jammed in the groove in the retracted position. With care and proper lube
the old system seems safe.

Bill

[NoDakJak]

I spent ten years in Naval Aviation. Our pilots carried Victory Model S&Ws and I also carried one on guard duty. The only ammo that I saw were 130 grain, jacketed tracers. I fired hundreds of these and still have several hundred of the empty cases. We started several grass fires on the range one day while qualifying.
In 1967 I switched to the Air Force and in 1969 while stationed at Itazuke AFB I spent some time on temporary duty with the Small Arms section as an instructor and armorer. Most of our pilots and Air Police carried the Combat Masterpiece but we had quite a few Victory Model in reserve. In mid 1969 I had the duty of cleaning, inspecting and repairing all of them. Most of them had seen little use and were in pretty good shape although several had seen heavy use and were well worn. A few days after completing that task they were declared surplus and were sent to the base welding shop where they were cut into pieces along with our .30 Carbines and Survival Guns. What a waste! When I returned to the states in 1971 I purchased what appeared to be a unissued Victory Model. I shot it estensively for several years and finally sold it when I was transferred to England and couldn't take it with me. I still regret selling it. Neil

[Nora]

Another place to look for markings for Lend Lease Victory revolvers is the back strap. Mine had an "NZ1" stamped on it. This was to show that it was sent to our Kiwi friends. It also has a V serial # and is chambered in 38 S&W.


Nora