Anyone use 231 powder ?

[Jack Stanley]

I have several pounds of 231 I'd like to try , starting with the forty-five ACP and a Lyman 452374 round nose bullet .

Does this powder work fairly well in the big bore ?

Thanks , Jack

[Wally]

Using a Lee 230 Grain .45 cal bullet and 6.0 grains W-231 in my Ruger Blackhawk I get 930 FPS MV...

[oldhickory]

Yep, it's a very good powder for the .45 auto, I keep several pounds on hand just for that reason. The latest edition of Handloader states it's the same powder as HP-38.

It works very well with the Lyman 452630 200grSWC. 5-6gr should get you in the black quite easily and keep you there with a good 1911.

[ReloaderFred]

Many consider Winchester 231 as THE powder for .45 acp. If it won't shoot with 231, then it probably won't shoot with anything......

Hope this helps.

Fred

[armed_partisan]

Just loaded 600 rounds of .45 ACP cast and jacketed for a friend (in exchange for repairs to my Kayak!) using 231 exclusively. Burns clean and shoots accurate. I used RCBS-230-RNs and SAECO #68 200grn SWCBB. Not a fan of that last mold, all of the edges are filleted AND it's a Bevel Base, but I got a great deal on it.

[thegreatdane]

231/HP-38 is a joy to shoot. As stated above, it burns clean and meters well.

The only drawback is that it's a bit flashy in low-light.

[Wots]

Im using hp-38 in my Beretta Storm W/230 grain round nose lead. With a mild crimp.
It gets a bit smoky. Am I doing something wrong?

[ReloaderFred]

The smoke is mostly from the lube on the bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Char-Gar]

231 is a kissing cousin to Bullseye which was the original 45 ACP powder. 4.5 to 5 grains is a good load with 200 to 230 grains bullets. I certainly would not shoot that 6 grain load in a 1911 pistol. It is way over the top. It won't take a good Ruger BH apart, but would not be gentle on the autopistol.

[9.3X62AL]

5.0 grains of WW-231 is a pretty good "hardball" 45 ACP duplicator using Lyman #452374 @ 1.260" OAL.

[Ferdinand]

The max load listed for 231 and a 230 grain round nose is 5.3 grains, showing 16900 CUP. Interpolating from the pressures listed associated with the min and max charge, 6 grains would likely be over 20,000 CUP.

[Triggerhappy]

I love 231 in my .45's. I usually shoot 200g's though @ 5.2-5.5 depending on what I need. It's a nice clean burning powder that meters nicely.

TH

[S.R.Custom]

The max load listed for 231 and a 230 grain round nose is 5.3 grains, showing 16900 CUP. Interpolating from the pressures listed associated with the min and max charge, 6 grains would likely be over 20,000 CUP.

Probably. But it's stunningly accurate.

6.0 grs of 231 is my "+P" load, and yields 980 fps. 5.4 grs is a closer approximation of good 'ol hardball, and very accurate as well.

So yeah, you can put me down in the "231 is THE powder for .45ACP" column.

[Jack Stanley]

That's all good news to me fellas , now , all I gotta do is find a bullet of proper hardness and choose a powder level . There's where it get's tricky , The winchester booklet I have shows a range of 4.7 to 5.1 . The Lyman book and a couple others start near five grains and go to 5.8 .

Hardball level would be fine for me I don't really need plus "P" for this load . What sort of bullet hardness do you use ? I cast some RN today that are at eleven brinell right now , the mix is lino and wheel weights . I have LBT blue in the sizer hoping that will work for lube and a 451 die that leaves bullets at almost .452" .

Jack

[BoolitBill]

I use 452374 cast up in straight WW for a 233 gr. round nose boolit. Then load it with 5.4 gr. of 231 and it gives me about 830 fps. out of a 1911. About as close to hardball as I can get. ( sized .452 and use carnuba red lube)

[MakeMineA10mm]

That is exactly the load I use for a cast hardball duplication load. 5.4 to 5.6grs is just right and will give you from 830-870fps, depending on the exact burn-rate of the powder, and the conditions your loading/shooting under. It's a good factory ball duplication.

I also would not shoot 6.0grs, as the 5.6grs is pushing +P level already, and is all the snap I want in a 1911. Of course, I shoot WWII-era 1911A1s with the narrow grip safety, so maybe the guys with the beavertails can stand the heavier loads... :mrgreen:

You can't do much better than W231 in the 45ACP, although Green Dot comes close...

As far as the smokey-ness, yes, that's a problem. It's mostly the boolit lube, but I've noticed 231 being smokey even with jword loads. I think it's partially due to the formula of the powder and partially due to the low pressures developed in 38s and 45s.

[beagle]

The three powders used by the military over the years in the .45 ACP were WW231, 700-X and Bullseye.....dependent on the manufacturer and lot numbers. Wish I had a 50# keg sitting in my shop./beagle

[Wots]

The smoke is mostly from the lube on the bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Sure does.
Thanks Fred

[casterofboolits]

231 is an excellent powder for the 45 ACP. 231 is much better than Unique in progressive loading tools.

Fired a couple hundred thousand rounds of 45 ACP in practice and IPSC loaded with 231 over the years.

Checked my supply of 231 last week and have four three pounders and several one pounders in the powder mag.

[mtnman31]

I really like 231. It meters well and gives me some accurate, consistent loads. I feel it can be a bit smoky and dirty as well, but I don't mind it. For the calibers I load it is pretty versatile and covers most all of my pistol needs. I would venture to say that I have burned more 231 than all other the other pistol powders I use combined.

[Paulinski]

I load 9mm with 231.

[Jack Stanley]

Smokey and dirty doesn't bother me as long as after firing a thirty caliber ammo can worth of ammo there is no lead in the bore at all . My other forty-five load is a H&G number two ninety-two with four point seven grains of Bullseye and it works very well .

I bought several pounds of this SMP-231 from Pat the last time I saw him so I'll likely try it in other calibers as well . Right now though , I'm working on a used mold I bought and trying to get bullets and load to work like hardball . I hope it's coming all together well .

Jack

[MakeMineA10mm]

231 is very versatile in pistols. If you look really, really hard, you can find some shotshell data for it. Using it for rifles and low-velocity cast loads, you're pretty much on your own, but I can vouch that it does work.

For you guys that are just starting with it or looking at spreading out to other calibers, here are my standard loads with SMP231/W231/HP38:

380 Auto.............90gr-105gr cast lead boolit...............3.0grs
9mm Para...........124gr-135gr cast lead boolit..............4.4grs
38 Spl..................158gr cast lead boolit.......................4.0grs (can load 4.4grs for +P)
357 Mag..............158gr cast lead boolit.......................5.6grs (can load up to 6.5grs, but I don't)
10mm Auto.........175gr-180gr cast lead boolit.............5.6grs
44 Spl.................225gr cast lead boolit........................5.6grs
44 Magnum.........270gr cast lead boolit.......................7.5grs
45 ACP................200gr or 230gr cast lead boolit.........5.6grs (4.4grs w/ 200gr is my target load)

Now, keep in mind that 231 can vary, sometimes greatly, in burning rate from lot to lot, so don't just load these. Start 10% low and work your way up (or maybe down) carefully watching pressures. The best thing is to use a chrono and stop when you get to a reasonable velocity for the cartridge/boolit combo you're using.

[94Doug]

Quite a few years ago, I was trying to limit the supplies I kept to a minimum, I found that 231 covered almost every caliber I had in handguns, anyway. That whole theory didn't last that long....

Doug

[S.R.Custom]

I load 9mm with 231.

Ditto. 3.0 grs of 231 under a 125 grain boolit makes for a pleasant, accurate plinking load.

[Wayne Dobbs]

My favorite .45 ACP working load is 5.1 grains of 231 with a 230 grain cast bullet. The pressure is mild and the load works any good 1911 well without abusing the machinery. I've fired thousands of this load and usually use 231 as my first choice for most loading in .38, .45 ACP and 9mm.

[Four Fingers of Death]

In the 9mm and 45ACP, 231 is all I use! Meters brilliantly, consistent, clean, accurate, whats not to like?

[Jack Stanley]

Well then , even if this particular bullet mold doesn't work out the powder will be a nice replacement for Bullseye . I do like how it meters in the Dillon measure , when I check charges it's always right on .

Jack

[arjacobson]

I also like 231. Use it for 45acp-.380-9mm mak-38 special. Excellent in 9mm also.. wish I had a few extra pounds laying around........

[Four Fingers of Death]

I take it all back, Winchester powders are on special here, $48 a pound! Bugger!

[Jack Stanley]

I take it all back, Winchester powders are on special here, $48 a pound! Bugger!

Yikes!!!!!:shock:I can't imagine it has much of a following at that price does it ? I don't remember what I paid for this six pound jug but I'm sure it wasn't that much .

Isn't the "Clays" lineup of powders made over there ? A bit cheaper ...yes ?

Jack

[Snapping Twig]

I use W231/HP38 and have done so since the mid 80's. It's a good substitute for BE that allows higher velocity and still provides low velocity if you choose. Less residue as well in any given power level.

Very versatile, covers a wide array of calibers.

Falls right in the middle of burn rate between Unique and BE, so you can appreciate it's adaptability.

I use it for .38spl. loads in .357 cases, .44spl level loads in .44 mag cases, .45LC and .45 acp.

[S.R.Custom]

Yikes!!!!!:shock:I can't imagine it has much of a following at that price does it ? I don't remember what I paid for this six pound jug but I'm sure it wasn't that much .

If you lived in Oz like Mick does, you'd pay that much. And you'd like it.

[mtgrs737]

WW231/HP38 is about all I use in 45 acp these days. Back when it was hard to find I layed in 10 pounds of HP38 and now that WW231 is back on most shelves I have an 8 pounder waiting for use. I shoot mostly 200 gr. SWC ACP boolits using 5.7grs. of 231. I have been thinking of dropping back to 5.5 grs. for a little more controlable recoil during fast falling plate shooting. I have a couple of the Lee made GB H&G 68 copy molds and a Saeco #69 which is also a flat based booliit design. I can't think of anything else I would need for 45 acp.

[Jack Stanley]

I have used lots of Bullseye in all my handgun rounds and liked it . Now I have this little pile of 231 to work with and I think I'm liking it more every time I go out with it . Does anyone know if it's single or double base ?

Jack

[felix]

Double base. ... felix

[Four Fingers of Death]

If you lived in Oz like Mick does, you'd pay that much. And you'd like it.

I mostly use ADI (Aussie manafactured Hodgson) powders which are well priced, available and excellent quality, but I like to support Winchester as well. For many years until very recently, Winchester was the only overseas powder manafacturer that supported teh Australian market. We could always get ADI and Winchester and bugger all else. $AU48 a pound is a bit steep though, that about $US47.50!!!!!

[Jack Stanley]

Fingers , you got to be one of the most dedicated shooters I've ever heard of . I think at fity bucks a pound I'd be looking for willow charcoal sulpur and a few other ingredients .


I took the 1911 out yesterday to see if I had the proportions right this time . Five point five grains of this SMP231 , a large Winchester pistol primer , and a Lyman 452374 seated to an overall length of 1.290" . Bullets had a sniff of Johnsons paste wax on them to help them go nose first through the Star .452" die where they got a groove full of Javalina type Alox . Forty rounds as fast as I could hit the swinging plate and get loaded magazines into the gun gave me one tiny patch of lead on top of a land . It brushed out pretty easy and a wipe with a patch wetted with CLP got the barrel clean enough for the next try .


I think the softer mix and seating the bullet out is helping it get into the barrel straight and bump to what ever size it needs to be . It's the craziest thing I have another bullet mold that a truncated design that works at .452" with no leading at all . I'm thinking this round nose doesn't have as much bearing surface and like someone said is trying to tip as it goes into the rifling .

Jack

[S.R.Custom]

Mick-- That goes both ways. I've always been a fan of the ADI version of 4227, and have always gone out of my way to procure it, much preferring it over the North American version.

My comment regarding 'liking' to pay $48 dollars for 231 was predicated on the assumption that Oz dollars and greenbacks traded about 2:1, which not that long ago they did. My, how things have changed...

[Four Fingers of Death]

Our military don't sell the powders as surplus like yours do. They explode them. I used to work at the prison at Lithgow when the Aussie dollar was worth about 55cents US and they reuglarly shook the prison exploding tons of powder in the nearby Ordnance Depot. one big drum would have done me for the rest of my life :( Thats why I never go to the surplus powder page, too depressing.

[Jack Stanley]

I didn't realize the exchange rate was two to one , thruthfully I didn't even think about it . Now it makes a lot more sense to me why a pound there is forty-seven dollars . I guess that is more in line with what a pound goes for here but then about the only way I buy powder these days is by the gallon jug .

Come to think of it ........... I don't remember I bought a one pound can of powder .

And not that my opinion is going to change anyones mind , but I think it's criminal to destroy powder like that and not let the people who paid for it in the first place get it back .

Jack

[bigfoot]

i use 231 in quite a few hg loads works well in all! good all around powder
bigfoot

[Four Fingers of Death]

I didn't realize the exchange rate was two to one , thruthfully I didn't even think about it . Now it makes a lot more sense to me why a pound there is forty-seven dollars . I guess that is more in line with what a pound goes for here but then about the only way I buy powder these days is by the gallon jug .

Come to think of it ........... I don't remember I bought a one pound can of powder .

And not that my opinion is going to change anyones mind , but I think it's criminal to destroy powder like that and not let the people who paid for it in the first place get it back .

Jack


Pound tins are often the only way powders from overseas are available here. In the 9mm at 4Gns per shot a pound goes a fair way.

[Jack Stanley]

I went out today with a full box of forty-five with the alloy softened up a bit and the same powder charge as the last batch . In twenty degree weather the pistol didn't really heat up like it does in august . I was inspecting the bore during cleaning and I didn't see any lead deposits so perhaps I got this one working after all .

Now if I load a bunch of this with five and a half grains and shoot it next summer when it's ninety-five degrees in the shade . Is this powder going to surprise me or will it be pretty sable ?

Jack

[felix]

Should be stable at that loading, Jack. If you detect any leading at 90 degrees or so, drop back a half grain, or split the difference and load 5.3 grains. ... felix

[MakeMineA10mm]

I went out today with a full box of forty-five with the alloy softened up a bit and the same powder charge as the last batch . In twenty degree weather the pistol didn't really heat up like it does in august . I was inspecting the bore during cleaning and I didn't see any lead deposits so perhaps I got this one working after all .

Now if I load a bunch of this with five and a half grains and shoot it next summer when it's ninety-five degrees in the shade . Is this powder going to surprise me or will it be pretty sable ?

Jack

5.6grs is my year-round load. 5.3 to 5.7 is quoted by most people who use W231. Some of that variation is due to the burning rate of the particular lot of W231. If you have a chronograph, while sticking to that range of charges, try to get a 230gr RN to around 830-870fps, and call it good (for that particular lot's burning rate). For the 200gr, with that same range of charges, you should be aiming for around 900-960fps, possibly a little more.

[Jack Stanley]

OK thank you , It's a bit chilly to be setting up the chronograph right now . So as long as I seem to fit in the middle of the pile and the load doesn't look to hot . I think I'll just shoot a few through the winter and wait to load a can full when it gets warmer .

I'll be plenty happy to get hardball speeds with no leading at all . With this charge of five point five I think I'll be safe , of course I could drop back a tenth and see what happens .

For now perhaps I can cuddle up to the melting pot and see If I can make more bullets at ten brinell without going over .

Jack