First time loading today!!!

[saz]

I FINALLY got a chance to hit the loading bench today. I got my compression die stem on wednesday and picked up some copper tubing for the drop tube the same day. This morning I built my drop tube (28 inch) and figured out the compression die- it is one that screws into the expander die from Buffalo Arms. The gentleman I bought my rifle from was nice enough to give me some Saeco 745s cast from 20:1 and already lubed with Bullshop's NASA Lube.

So here we go-Starline 45/70 brass full length sized, Federal large pistol primer and belled with a .456" expander. I figured out the max OAL and shortened it .040". The only powder I could get my hands on up here at the moment was Goex 3F, so boomer load it is. I will be getting some Cartridge as soon as it is available. I made 12 rounds of each at 59, 60 and 61 grs- compression was .125", .150" and .175" with a .030" veggie wad. Every powder charge was weighed to +/- .1gr. Once the boolit was seated I had to crimp a little bit to take the bell down enough to chaimber the last half inch. The RCBS dies I have are have a roll crimp in the seating die, but I barely had to touch the case to take the bell out. You could hardly feel it in the handle of the press. I still have to get to the range, someday and I will keep yall posted as to the results- which I hope are good. Next is trying a bunch of different primers, unless my technique sucks which I will soon find out.........

[home in oz]

This is going to be really addicting. Get ready.

[nicholst55]

Did you anneal your Starline brass before loading? They deliberately make it thicker than some others to make it stronger for high pressure loads, and it will need to be annealed in order to obturate at BP pressures.

[saz]

They are annealed. Thanks!

[montana_charlie]

I saw your thread at BPCR.net before I logged in here. That is where I left my comment.
CM

[saz]

I had a chance to get to the range today, and the results were dissapointing to say the least. It didnt help that it was 0* today either. I started out with the 59gr load and my plan was to shoot 2 fouling rounds before I settled in to fire the rest. The first round had a deep boom instead of a loud cracking sound. When I tried to load the second round it was already fouled up so bad that the second round stopped about 1/8" from fully chaimbering. I am thinking that I need more powder = more compression. I am going to pull apart the rest and up the compression.

I was pretty bummed at first, but my numb hands and feet thanked me after we were back in the truck. I was already at the range for about an hour and a half as I was working up a load for my wife's new 30-06 and was already out of coffee!:groner: I keep telling myself this is all part of the learning curve. Even though my results were dismal to say the least, I now have something else to do!

[Don McDowell]

They didn't put that 70 behind the dash following the 45, just to take up print space....

[mustanggt]

Saz, try getting your charge closer to 70grs. as a starting point and see if it doesn't work better for you. It is a little tough to shoot in such cold weather puts more of a damper on things. Since you backed your seating depth off 40 thou you have room to work your charge up. I use 75gr in mine with one grease groove exposed. In my rifle that is just touching the rifling with the postell bullet. Starline brass being so tough can give you the ability to compress your charge more. Some of the thinner walled brass will bulge if there is too much compression. The closer you get to 70grs the more pleased you will be I believe. Have fun.

[saz]

They didn't put that 70 behind the dash following the 45, just to take up print space....

LMAO! You owe me a new computer- I just spit coffee all over mine! I do feel a little silly though......

[John Boy]

They didn't put that 70 behind the dash following the 45, just to take up print space....
Don, the best answer I've read in years. :drinks:

[Don McDowell]

[smilie=s::razz:

[Lead pot]

saz

did you use a blow tube after the shot? or wipe?

[saz]

Neither- I didnt have my blow tube with me (I have heard that is a no-no in the cold) and the moose milk I was going to wipe with was frozen-

[hiram]

You made up 36 rounds of ammo. I figured out my load with less. You might want to try it. Here goes.--

Start with a minimal charge of powder in a case which requires compression. Then increase the charge for the next case by 1gr. Increase the charge in the third case by 1gr., etc.

In other words, you will have 1 case of each, i.e., 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70gr. (You might be able to start with 55, or 56 gr--You won't know until you try.

Thats 14 cases. Number each case.

Set up your target and have the same target on your bench next to you. Do not adjust the sights. Fire each load and mark the hit on the target at your bench and number the mark what load it was. You should see shots coming together and then (?) spreading.

Where you have a cluster of shots, lets say cases 10, 11, 12, and 13 clustered together. Take the middle load of your cluster and now load up some ammunition to try for a group.

You may wind up tweaking your load.

[iron mule]

saz
you didn't mention the type of lube you were using
i agree with the others you need to up the powder charge
but make sure that the lube you are using will work at the low temp you are shooting in some lubes will not work in low temps
also if it was a smokeless lube that is part of your problem
mule

[saz]

I was using NASA lube. I use it for a cold weather smokeless lube also and has always done well for that and also on my muzzleloaders when the temp drops.

[littlejack]

saz:
I have settled on the 70 that Don mentioned. As a matter of fact, Don is the very same fella that brought me to that 70 grains when I was getting started. I did try experimenting with lighter loads and up to 75 grains to check for group size. The fouling with the lesser powder weight, low 60's was terrible, and the groups opened up with the heavier powder charges.
You mentioned that you would be getting some Cartridge powder when it comes available.
I used Cartridge exclusivly up until about August of this year. My local dealer ran out and said he probably wouldn't get any more, because it took too long to sell it.
I read, and I believe it was on the CastBoolit forum, that Goex was going to discontinue the Cartridge grade. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong.
Anyway, I switched to Goex 2f, and it works fine in my hiwall 45-70. I can hit a golf ball at 100 yards, and a baseball at 200. Good loadin/shootin to you.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack yes Goex is discontinuing Cartridge for the very reason your local guy quit handling it, very slow seller. It's still available and likely will be some left in magazines around the country for some time, but there won't be any fresh batches made up.
2f in the regular grades and the Express line is expected to be around for so long as Hogdons decides to keep making sporting grade black powder, but one has to remember that sporting grade blackpowder sales are very small compared to what the sales to military and industrial grades are....

[littlejack]

Hey Don:
Thanks for your coroberation.
I went to a gun show a couple of weeks ago. The place was packed with folks. I sure am glad to see that people are still taking their firearms seriously. I believe that the bp sales will be long with us, with the bp hunters, target shooters and all the SASS and Cowboys around.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Jack right now I'm torn between ordering a case of Cartridge to have on hand when the 44-77 gets done and just saying the heck with it and going on with something else that's still available when the rifle gets finished.

[littlejack]

Well, it didn't take me long to decide to change to 2f when I got to my supplier and found that he wasn't going to carry the Cartridge anymore. That purdy much made up my mind.
I don't do near the amount of shooting you and some of the other fellas do.
Take care Don.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Give it time Jack you'll get bit by the bug sooner or later, and the UPS man will be coming round with Cases of powder from Powder Inc, Grafs and Buffalo Arms soon enough...

[cajun shooter]

Hey Don, I read the article and called my Goex distributor and he said that he had just picked up a fresh case of Cartridge. I told him to put my name on it. He called me back and said that I would have it by next Wed. No more using it for SASS as my Diamondback will cover that. My distributor advised that we may see a slow down with Express also. Hodgdon also decided to stop production of the Cowboy blend. I bought about 4 cans to try but never used it for matches. I know that Capt Baylor uses it as a primer for his fake powder loads. Later David

[saz]

Got my hands on 2 lbs of Cartridge yesterday. Early Christmas for me!

[Don McDowell]

David, have you chronographed that Diamond back and compared it against the Goex's for velocity?
Saz I think you'll like that powder.