Steyr 95 Carbine

[Alby]

I have the opportunity to pick up a Steyr 95 carbine (20" barrel) for under a $100. Up until now I have stuck with pistols and this is my first venture into C&R rifles. Damn C&R license! Anyway I know most start with the Mosin but I don't always follow the same path. Is this a reasonable price for this? It is chambered for the 8x56R but I have not had an opportunity to slug the barrel. It is supposed to be still packed in cosmoline and has not been touched in a few years, but no known rust. I need some expert advise and from reading other posts I know I am in the right place. Thanks Al

[roverboy]

They're good little rifles, but the ammo is expensive if you find it. I've put off ordering one for a while because of the ammo problem. But I've been thinking about geting one anyway.

[pymi]

Clean the bore if you can and check it, some of these have sewer pipes.
You will need some Mannlicher clips and reload for it.
Slug your bore, you can reload with Prvi Partizan brass and .338 bullets run through a sizer.

[leadman]

Lee makes a proper size mold for this, Graf & Sons has ammo and brass. Lee boolit uses 8mm gas checks.
There is still some surplus ammo floating around, it is corrosive.

[Bret4207]

Lee makes a proper size mold for this, Graf & Sons has ammo and brass. Lee boolit uses 8mm gas checks.
There is still some surplus ammo floating around, it is corrosive.

A slight qualifier- Lee makes what Lee thinks is the proper size boolit mould for the 8X56R. It works in a few rifles from what I under stand. The mould they make that's almost sure to work is their .338 mould. Same design as the .329, but big enough to work.

I love my 95. Get a mess of clips, brass from Grafs, a mould and hunt up the 338 gas checks. Stick 13.0 Red Dot or 16.0 2400 behind the lee boolit and enjoy. Just don't lose the clips.

[twotoescharlie]

oldfellers frankenstein works well for me. word of caution don't single load without a clip, the extracter will snap and parts for them are almost non-existant.

TTC

[Buckshot]

..............I have 4 of these carbines, one I converted to 30-40 Krag:

http://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EF48A81FED28FD0/standard.jpg

Due to the accuracy of this conversion I know there are no issues or inherent problems with the actions. Well, other then the triggers are generally mushy feeling, similar to the Russian Mosin Nagants. Accuracy issues with cast lead (besides poor barrel condition) will be due to it's 'soda straw' dimensions, bedding, and boolit fitting failure.

http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/97D8CFD115331D0/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO These are the boolit designs I've shot in my M95 and M95/31's. A) Is a Saeco tapered Schuetzen FNPB .336" @ 205gr B) Lee C338-220-R C) RCBS 33-205gr D) Oldfeller design. RIGHT PHOTO I started reloading the 8x56R when the only boxer brass was Bertram, so I converted the original Berdan primed brass to use the 209 shotshell primer. No Berdan primers were available at all.

The original ballistics are pretty impressive with a 208gr Spitzer BT departing the 19" bbl right at 2300 fps. The problem(s) you might experience in reloading cast lead for these handy little carbines has to do with the groove depth, throat OD, length of the leade, and the chamber neck OD. They all can, or will be generous for what we'd consider normal for other rifles.

In my personal Steyr straight pulls, and from whatI've read of others the bores all seem to be fairly consistent at about .315". This is close to the dimension for the 8x57 Mauser which uses a .323" bullet, and spec'd .323" groove. The deal with the 8x56R is that the groove is spec'd @ .329" and so is the issue military (and Hornady) bullet. So the Mauser has a 'normal' .004" deep groove where the Steyr has a .007" deep groove.

A further difference is that the 8x57 Mauser has the standard bor configuration of a narrow land and wide groove. Same as our 30 cal military rifles, and I believe the land 1/4 the total circumfrence of the barrel ID. The Steyr on the other hand has lands and grooves which are basically equal in width. As a consequence with lands 1/2 the barrel circumfrence they are displacing twice as much lead. Then add in the fact that the Steyr has a groove depth just short of twice that of the 8x57. Or most other rounds we're used to dealing with.

Now we come to the 'real world' in what a lot of these carbines have for actual groove OD's. I don't think I've ever heard of one with a groove tighter then .329". But I own and have heard of many going .334". As to the throat, each of mine will easily pass a .338" slug. Two of mine will chamber a cartridge with a .340" lead slug seated.

What this all boils down to is quite a bit of lead being moved around when our .330" to .336" slug engraves into .315" lands that are half the barrel's circumfrence. I heartily agree with Bret4207 and pymi's mentioning best results comeing from the use of cast boolits intended for the .338 rifles. Of course the jacketed military or Hornady's .329" jacketed work fine.

http://www.fototime.com/6A9933E12FA8F6F/standard.jpg

These are some targets fired form one of my M95/31's. All 10 rounds at 50 yards. Visually inspected slugs, thrown charges, issue sights and trigger. I've had very good accuracy with the plain based Saeco fired 'as cast' at .336" but at velocities no more then about 1300 fps. Haven't tried a card wad under the base primarily due to the very short neck of the 8x56R. The other design I've worked with the most is the Oldfeller design. Those I have on hand were cast from his original mould done by Mountain Moulds when Dan still did full custom designs.

What I do is to lube the .338 slugs (usually drop about .340") in a Lyman .338" lube size die. After that I use the Lee type push through dies I make to reduce them to the desired size. It sure beats the heck out of trying to mash a .340" slug into a .332" lube-size die! I haven't messed with any of'em in quite some time now. I just don't know where my time goes these days :oops:

.................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Time- that's the problem here too.

[Wayne Smith]

Oldfellers Frandenstein is available from Bruce and is a catalogued mold. It's readily available. Graf's has had Privi Partisan brass and Hornaday brass but I don't know if it's still available. They also had .330 condom bullets. Make sure you find clips. That's the part that may be problematic.

[Alby]

Thanks for all the information! it will be arriving this week

[TreeKiller]

For Chargers try here.

http://ows-ammo.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=8X56+steyr+charger

Dan

[Buckshot]

.............Besides the sporter I did, I've seen a photo of another sporterized military that was chambered for the Rooskie 7.62x54R which would also be a natural. In addition to those I also recently saw some post WW1 sporters and they were quite lovely creations, with some extensive modifications made to them.

One had the external magazine housing deleted and converted to a regular Mauser type staggered internal magazine. It also had double set triggers, and was chambered to 7x57 Rimmed. Another had a Mannlicher stock and the external magazine box had been altered to accept a single stack magazine inserted from the bottom. The alteration looked similar to the current CZ'z using those type magazines. The final one was a basic alteration siilar to what I'd done, but the bolt handle had been moved to the left side of the bolt.

..............Buckshot

[iron brigade]

i bought my son one of these for christmas last year. mold,brass,dies from grafs. we load 6 grs of unique behind the non gas checked bullet. nice 50 yard plinker. we lube the bullets and shoot them as cast. just like shooting a .22 and he has a blast.

[northmn]

I tried a 338 sized down in mine and had better luck with the Lee used as cast. I also use Lees luquid Alox and then finger apply alox in the grooves. The 338 sized down gave some throat problems in that the nose was too tight to chamber in mine. Like others I got the brass through Grafs. It can be made from the 7.62 X 54 Russian but will have a shorter neck.
Should make a handy little carbine.

DP

[Uncle Grinch]

Buckshot,

I know I've seen your post on the 30-40 Krag conversion quite a few times before and ech time I see it, I drool over it. It seems like it's a perfect fit of both the Steyr and the Krag.

Now I see where you mention the Steyr and the 7.62 Rusky and here I go again! Wish I had the funds to play with these ideas.

Keep it up, I really enjoy your threads.

[abunaitoo]

Can you elaborate more on how you converted the original brass to take shotgun primers.

[JIMinPHX]

I would buy some boxer brass first, then buy the rifle.

[wallenba]

This is from another recent post, but relevant:
I tried the Lee 338 mold but had trouble getting it sized down to .334 (my bore is .3315). The guys here will tell you that it likes larger boolits than .001 over bore dia. due to the deep rifling. I already had a .329 Lee mold that dropped at .331, so I lapped it out using Wheeler 220 compound and it drops at .335-.336 now. I have a .338 checkmaker on order from Pat Marlins. Since I use the Lee die set I cannabalized an expander plug from a 338 Winchester die and chucked it in a cordless drill and carefully turned it down to .332 using 400 grit emery paper. This is as far as I've gotten so far with mine. Going to wait till I have checks before I shoot it.
Also 8x56r brass can be formed from 7.62x54r Russian brass, but will be a bit short.

[dualsport]

I've read that single loading these M95s without using the clip can damage the extractor. Seems like a poor trait for a combat weapon. Is it true?

[KCSO]

I use the Lee mould lapped out and beagled for my M95 and it works just fine. Factory ammo in the carbine is punishing but cast bullets at about 1600 fps are sweet to shoot. I also have one of these converted to 410 shotgun and I use 444 marlin brass for cases and a round nose wooden bullet for a top wad and it feeds right nice from the clip, much better than 3" 410's. I had one of these that was made in 8MM Mauser for the German's. I thought of it as an oddity till someone rteally wanted it bad and started peeling off the Franklins for it.

[Buckshot]

I've read that single loading these M95s without using the clip can damage the extractor. Seems like a poor trait for a combat weapon. Is it true?

...............I've heard that a lot myself. Whether this a real problem or not I can't say. Since I had an 01 FFL from 1980 to 2000, my first M95 was an incidental purchase from Century Arms. I was calling in an order and my salesman mentioned they had 'Really Nice' 1895 Steyr's on a special dealer price of $39, so I said to toss one in :-) This was back in the early '90's.

http://www.fototime.com/00C73BAA827D746/standard.jpg

This is it. The surplus ammo was dirt cheap then and I bought a bunch. Naturally I had to shoot cast, and only the expensive Bertram was boxer primed so I converted the Berdan stuff to use 209 shotshell primers. To get to the point (FINALLY, huh? :-)) rather then feeding the cast ammo from the magazine and clip I'd single load a round then close the bolt on it. Probably a sizeable number but I don't know or care to guess so I won't toss out a number, but I never had an extractor break.

However I can see how the extractor COULD break. It has a substantial claw like the Mauser, but unlike the Mauser it has a long slender tail that extends down inside the bolt housing, and performs another duty. The tail is tensioned to allow the claw of the extractor to grip the case's rim, and at the end of this slender tail or extension there is a slight ridge, which faces inward. This ridge engages two slots on the bolthead body inside the bolt housing. One when the rotateing bolthead is vertical, and the other when it's horizontal.

The same tension that allows the claw to grip the case rim also keeps that ridge on the tail in one or the other slot. When the bolthead rotates the ridge on the extractor tail has to flex up out of the slot. When a cartridge is single loaded into the chamber, the claw of the extractor is forced to flex out further to snap over the rim, which it WILL do and was designed to be able to do so.

The possibility for breakage has to do with the small sectional area of the tail behind the head of the extractor claw. In heat treating of this part it would be very easy for the tail to be hardened beyond a spring temper, and become not only hard but also brittle. As such it wouldn't stand a lot of flexing or excessive flexing. Since the extractors are practically non-existent at ANY price the wise thing to do is to feed the ammo from the clip rather then to chance snapping the tail off the extractor.

...............Buckshot

[BudRow]

From what I have gleaned from reading various posts on this subject is that the M-95s that were converted to 8MM Mauser are the ones most prone to this extractor breakage. The models M95M and M95/24 are specifically the ones that I've heard are in question. I have a long M-95 ,M-95 carbine and a Huzagol 35-M all in 8x56R. Also I have a Bubbafied M95M but it has a good extractor and proper internal clip. Metal is uncut only the stock has been hacked - looking for a issue stock. Best Wishes, Bud

[KCSO]

I might add that my M95 conversion to 410 shotgun has shot a lot of sells single loaded with no problems, but I do have a spare extractor just in case.

[acsteve]

dont forget graf carries brass and bullets. nice gun, creepy trigger. Barrels range from excellent to usable. Cant scope it easliy either. But I like mine alot.
s