".38 Special loads in .357 magnum cases..."

[exile]

I have a quantity of .357 magnum cases that I would like to load to the same level as my .38 Special cases with 158 grain semi-wadcutters and Unique powder. My .38 load is 4.1 grains of Unique. I looked in my loading manuals for an equivalent load, but could not find one. I had thought that I would load somewhere between 4.5 grains and 5 grains of Unique. I know this is probably a no brainer, but I was somewhat surprised that no manuals, even the Lyman Cast Bullet manual did not list such a load.

Does anyone see a problem with 4.5 to 5 grains of Unique in a .357 magnum case with a 158 grain lead boolit? I only ask because light loads, such as those used in cowboy action shooting have been known to blow up guns as often as heavy loads, or so I have heard. Thanks.

exile

[exile]

Forgot about the .38 Special +P loads in my Lee manual. I think I will try 4.4 grains of Unique and see how that works.

exile

[Throckmorton]

4.4 will work fine,I've used just a bit less too.

[exile]

Thanks, I will give that a try.

exile

[Three44s]

I do almost the same thing in my .44 mag cases .......

........ however, I load to just above .44 spec levels with the right powder.

Say if a particular load in a .44 spec runs in the 700+ range ...... my .44 mag cased load will get in to the 860-870 fps range to get consistent ..... say with Titegroup or better still Hodgon Clays (not Universal Clays)

With Unique in big cases ...... I switch to magnum primers and develop a good and cleaner load than I would get with standard primers .....

Three 44s

[bhn22]

You might do better to use starting .357 loads that offer the same velocities you're seeking. This way you're sure to get the performance you want. There's a lot of data available. 38 Spl loads in .357 cases will likely be slower than the same load in a 38 case because of the extra case volume.

[exile]

I guess you learn something new every day, at least on this website. I was surprised to see (in my manuals at least) that starting loads with Unique in the
.357 magnum seem to be so much more (6.2 as opposed to 4.1 in .38 special). The learning goes on.

(I guess my point is that if I really wanted .357 magnum loads I would use something like AA # 9, I did not think that anyone would really try to raise velocities with powders like Unique or Bullseye, [referring to what is in the manuals, not what you guys said})

exile

[armed_partisan]

I've been doing this for years in an effort to save my beloved K-Frame Magnum Smiths. I call them "Mag Lite Loads". I even load HBWC loads in .357 cases for target shooting. Since the .357 has about 10% more case capacity, I use the same loads I use for .38 Special, plus 10%. That usually works fine, and there's no way it's gonna blow it up!

My favorite load for .38 Special is one I got from Glenn Fryxell, and that's 5.4 grains of Unique pushing a Lyman 358477. Very, very accurate. I haven't been able to load a wadcutter load that did better yet. Tried it in .357 mag cases, plus 10%, 5.9-6 Grains (I usually go 6.0) and it works great.

[357shooter]

I use fast powders in 357 magnum at greater than 38 pressure a bunch. To find really accurate loads for the range the higher pressure of the 357 opens up a bunch of powder combination's that work really well. And it's cheaper too. Shooting with 5 grains of HP-38 is a lot less than 12 grains of 2400.

It's not really about raising the velocity for me, just great target loads. The 38 special loads aren't always the most accurate, at least in my 6 inch revolver. Added later: But sometimes the 38 special loads are extremely accurate and work well.

[kelbro]

I have found that several of my 38 Special target loads work well in 357 cases with no increase in powder charge. Almost the same velocity too.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There is an old saying among some handloaders that goes," 357's make better 38s". As to why, well there are a few theories on the subject. One is that the bullet is closer to the rifling by that 1/10th of an inch; another is that the change in the loading density is the reason etc. There is nothing shabby about the 38 special; a lot of incredible accuracy has been achieved with it for a long time. The idea that it could be outdone by using a 357 case is kind of hard to imagine. My own experience has been limited to target work with flat faced wadcutters at fairly low velocities in two 357 revolvers. In those, the 357 cases consistently did better than the 38 cases. I will admit that "one (or 2) robin(s) do not make it springtime" so a lot more investigation would be logical. That should include stouter loads and the use of SWC's and roundnoses. LLS

[357shooter]

There is an old saying among some handloaders that goes," 357's make better 38s". That's a good saying and very true I think. For me the longer cases and bullets loaded a bit long combined with the wider range of powder combination's make it incredibly tunable and flexible.

[exile]

Good thoughts.

exile

[cbunt1]

I've got a friend who loads .38 spl loads in .357 cases. Insists it's better. His reasoning: He doesn't own any "true" .38 spls--all Magnums...and he hates sorting .38 from .357 brass!

Sounds like as good a logic as anything else I've heard...

Carry on. Load, test, and shoot....

[MT Gianni]

http://www.castpics.net/
Go to articles by members and High speed 38 loads, Then thank Beagle.

[358wcf]

I don't load my 357mag cases to anything near a hot load. For years, I've standardized on the RCBS 150gr SWC in the mag case with 6.0gr Unique. Very, very mild load, with very good accuracy and minimal recoil and noise. For the 38Spec cases, I use the same boolit over 5.0gr Unique, with similar results, except that I can also use it in the 38Special revolvers. This last year, I've pretty much decided to reduce the 38Spec load just a bit, to perhaps 4.6gr Unique to further reduce the recoil to a lower level yet.
Heavier loads in the 357mag cases need a different boolit, to visually point out the difference between, for example my 150gr SWC utility loads and my heavier 358429HP hunting loads. This system allows me to always know what type load I am using, even without labels.
I used RCBS 148gr WC boolits in both the Special and Mag cases for years- forgot the exact loads now, but it was Unique, for sure.
Today, I use the different boolit style approach to tell me what load I have on hand.
Try it- it always works-

358wcf[smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[TCLouis]

I guess you learn something new every day, at least on this website. I was surprised to see (in my manuals at least) that starting loads with Unique in the
.357 magnum seem to be so much more (6.2 as opposed to 4.1 in .38 special). The learning goes on.

(I guess my point is that if I really wanted .357 magnum loads I would use something like AA # 9, I did not think that anyone would really try to raise velocities with powders like Unique or Bullseye, [referring to what is in the manuals, not what you guys said})

exile


First and foremost is the increase in case/powder volume in the 357 Mag vs the 38 SPL.

Secondly is the "max pressure" issue, something like 16,000 for the 38SPL and 36,000 for the 357.

[lylejb]

Been doing it for many years.

At the time I started, I could pick up as much 357 range brass as I wanted, and was too lazy to readjust my dies every time I changed loads.

So, it all went into 357 brass. no problems yet. Just make sure to mark your boxes (as you should be anyway)

It might be slightly lower velocity in the larger case, but nothing too drastic. I've loaded down to about 600 fps, and up to 1500 or so, in 357 brass.

[NHlever]

I have been disappointed that most manuals start at higher velocities for many cast boolits than I would like in the .357. I too would like some .38 Special velocity loads for their quiet report. I have larger calibers for serious larger game hunting, and appreciate how well the lighter .38 loads work on targets, and small game. I guess I'll just have to break out the chronograph one of these days, and make that a project.

[exile]

A chronograph would solve many an issue, wouldn't it? I would love to have one.

exile

[Digger]

Been using WST in 9 , 40 s+w , 45 and since it still is in the hopper , thought I would try it out in 38 special and 357.
Have yet to do the 357 , a little short on brass , have to find some , but put 2.8 gr in the 38 with Miha's 359640 hp and was surprised at how accurate in my 586 , went up to 3.1 gr and is very nice load combo but like Exile stated , a chrono would be so nice to have ...
Thought about using the 3.1 gr in the 357 with the boolit set back to the second crimp groove when I get the chance ,
Any opinions on the process so far ?
The 586 and MIha's boolit is working out great as time goes on ....
digger

[truckmsl]

Digger - I've been using 3.5 grains of WST with Lee RFP that casts to 163 grains for a long time through a Smith K-38. Very nice load. Same load woks well in my GP100 in .357. Haven't used WST in .357 cases though.

[exile]

WST?

exile

[Digger]

Winchester Super Target .....one of the faster powders I believe .....but not as fast as Bullseye ?

[6bg6ga]

Would 4.4gr of Unique with a 158gr LSWC work for a very mild load for the wife?

[waco]

We just loaded and shot a lot of NOE360477 150gr. Boolits over 5.0 gr Reddot in .357 brass.
They shot great!