Marlin 1894 44 Magnum

[ron brooks]

I am trying to decide on which Lyman mold to get for my 1894 44 mag. For powder I am planning on using 820 powder and am seriously considering the 245 grain SWC, although i am open to oter thoughts. My big question is gas check or no gas check. From the reading I have done It seems that if you have a lead 44 caliber boolit at 432-433 you don't need the gas check.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ron

[Bullshop]

A couple things you have to remember about the Marlin are first there is no pressure release valve until the boolit exits the muzzle so pressure for equal loads may be higher depending on powder burn rate. Also because of the higher pressure and the longer push time you can expect to see 300 to 400 fps higher velocities from equal loads. You wont see this much gain from all loads just the top end loads with the slow powders. So you can see by this that a load in a revolver that is near the limit of a plain base boolit for the revolver may be over the limits of the boolit in the Marlin. Best Idea is to get both the PB and GC versions and have greater versatility for your carbine! Just to show you the capability of the carbine in 44 mag I worked up to 1800 fps with the Lee 310gn flgc. At this velocity extraction was apx. 50 %. Backing down to 1700 fps extraction is 100% so this is my working load. The extraction systam on all the Marlins is the week link in the chain and I use it to tell where the absolute max is for each gun. At the 1700 fps load everything works good and case life is normal.
Hope that helps.
BIC/BS

[Leftoverdj]

I am trying to decide on which Lyman mold to get for my 1894 44 mag. For powder I am planning on using 820 powder and am seriously considering the 245 grain SWC, although i am open to oter thoughts. My big question is gas check or no gas check. From the reading I have done It seems that if you have a lead 44 caliber boolit at 432-433 you don't need the gas check.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ron

Marlin carbines never read the book. I've never gotten accuracy past 1200 fps with a plain base bullet, and I've tried a bunch. #429244 is probably your best bet in a production mould. Mine casts at 255 grains rather than 245, though.

[44man]

Heck, get the Lee 310 gr and load 20.5 gr's of 296 with the Federal 150 primer and bust deer left and right. Super accurate.

[ron brooks]

Thanks fr the opinions. I've decided to go with the 429244. Will probably end up getting both as Bullshop suggested since I'm kind of like that. Also going to get in on the 245 Plain base Keith group buy.

Say, where do you get a 433 size sizing die? Just get a 430 opened up?

Thanks,

Ron

[georgeld]

Ron:

You order from Lee what ever size you want, same as standards.

You gonna be doing any goose hunting this winter down that way????????

IF so, I'd like to drag the trailer down and spend a week doing it. Depending on the NR tag costs, might not want to hunt out of CO. Leave that kinda expense for you Texans with the money.

I see the forum was down, got it opened right after I sent that note.

Behave, keep the woman wondering what you're up to!!

[Char-Gar]

Ron... I have some recent experience with the Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum, and here are a few of my observations.

1. The rifling twist in the Marlin (IIRC 1-38) will have a big effect on how fast you must push various cast bullets to get good accuracy.

I can get excellent accuracy at 1.1K fps using the 225 RCBS GC, but the Lyman 429244 ( 255 grains GC) requires 1.3K fps to get the same accuracy. At 1.1K fps the heavier Lyman bullets give groups triple the size of the lighter RCBS.

2. Plain base bullet did not do well in my rifle, no matter what the speed.

3. I would hold off buying that .433 sizer, as you will be lucky to get a .430 as cast diameter out of those 429244.

4. You may have to lengthen the cartridge carrier to get good reliable feeding of the heavier cast bullets. I did. Instructions are on the net.

[eka]

I have gotten the best results from my 1894 Marlin with hard bullets, sized large, and gas checked.

Keith

[JDL]

I agree with 44man on the Lee 310. My powders of choice with it is WC-820 and H-110. -JDL

[Shuz]

Ron, I found that the Lyman 429667 feeds very well outta the Marlin 1894. I gotta admit, tho, that I never did get mine to shoot cast to my satisfaction so I "morphed" it into a Winnie Trapper in .44 mag. I tried many many designs, and they wouldn't shoot well and many wouldn't feed well unless the OAL was drastically changed from the original design intent. I found the best accuracy was with boolits that were at least .433 in diameter. 10g of Unique and the 429667 will give you a load that is interchangable with many revolvers chambered for the .44 mag. You may have to compromise on the diameter tho. Good luck on your quest.--Shuz

[44man]

My 50 yd group with the Marlin. 5 shots with 21.5 gr's of 296, Fed 150 primer.

[ron brooks]

44man,

I usually am not a fan of larger than traditional boolits, such as 310 grain 44's, but I must say you are making me rethink my stand. :)

Ron

[ron brooks]

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it, one and all. Seems that a GC Boolit is the way to go with this rifle. I'll see how the 429244 does and go from there. Check out the 215 grains and the 310 grains as well. I'll let you all know what turns up.

Many thanks again,

Ron

[felix]

It's all about gripping the rifling. Whatever it takes. A longer bearing surface, harder boolit, gas check, larger diameter, taller lands, cleaner barrel, etc. ... felix

[Denver]

I'm gonna have to try that Lee 310 in my 94. I've tried just about every other cast boolit in it, but haven't yet hit on the right combo. I have a GB mold that drops a 250gr PB at about .434 that has been a little more encouraging, but still isn't where I'd like to be with accuracy. I can load boolits at .435 and they'll still chamber as easily as factory rounds. Maybe a boolit with a longer bearing surface and the check will be the ticket.

:lovebooli

[ron brooks]

It's all about gripping the rifling. Whatever it takes. A longer bearing surface, harder boolit, gas check, larger diameter, taller lands, cleaner barrel, etc.

Felix,

I'm trying, I'm trying. :) The longer bearing surface is something I hadn't considered, I'll look into it. Sounds like 44mans 310 grain boolit.

thanks,

Ron

[azrednek]

I've had good luck with short range accuracy, 50 yds max, 35 best shooting the Lee 44 cal full wadcutter in my 44 mag Rossi rifle. It's much easier to load and shoot one at a time as they don't cycle to well. Might do better in a higher quality Marlin. I used a mild load of 4.5-5.0 of Bullseye originally intended for an easy recoiling load for handgun paper punching and was surprised how well it shot in the rifle. It's a fun load, great for short range practice, in my case about the best my 55 year old eyes can do with iron sights, easy on brass and shoulders.

Another one of my revolver loads using the gas checked spire pointed Lyman (one at a time again because of the tube mag) my son surprised me how well he grouped them at 100 yards. I didn't do to bad at 50. I can't recall the exact load but do know it was a published max load using 2400 powder.

I've recently aquired some 44 cal molds suitable for use in a tubular mag but haven't had a chance to try them at the range yet. I did manage to cast a few slugs, load some dummy rounds and they seem to cycle through the action ok.

I originally passed on the 310 Lee but I'm seeing alot of praise in this group and elsewhere so I'm going to have to give it a try. I did shoot a friend's loads with the 310 ge Lee before I had the rifle. They shot real well in his Super Blackhawk but were outright painfull in my 4" Model 29. The heavier rifle shoud tame the heavy recoil considerably. I don't recall what his powder load was but do know they were hot as he used to use it for silhouettes.

I can't speak with any experience with 44 mag rifle shooting but my 2 cents says for serious 44 mag shooting a gas check is well worth the extra work and expense. At least that is what I found shooting it in revolvers. Gas checks are not really necessary if you want to develop a milder load for practice, plinking or tin can killing. If you're like most reloaders you wont be satisfied untill you try it with and without.

[wills]

There is an article on Leverguns
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/marlin_1894.htm

[44man]

Good article!
The absolute one thing I have found and I have posted many, many times, is to use a standard primer in the .44 with 296. Be sure to try it and make side by side comparisons with the mag primer. Post your results for everyone. Accuracy, please, not how fast you can get the gun to shoot.

[longbow]

I have a Marlin 1894 with 1:38 twist microgroove barrel and have tried several cast and jacketed boolits with varying success.

1) Jacketed 240 gr. gave decent accuracy to 100 yards+
2 Lyman 429244 gives mediocre accuracy at all ranges and shows gas cutting on recovered boolits
3) Home made 265 gr. round nose flat point plain base gives good accuracy out to 200 yards
4) paper patched round nose flat point up to 265 grs. also give good accuracy
5) 300 gr. paper patched gives reasonable accuracy to about 75 yards but are sideways at 100
6) 300 gr. home made round nose flat point plain base gave poor accuracy at 50 yards
7) 300 gr. jacketed gave poor accuracy at 50 yards

I have used these boolits over top of H110, IMR 4227, Unique and Blue Dot with basically the same results.

I read an article about Marlins tending to have tight spots in the barrels so drilled a 0.440 ball to fit a threaded pice of 1/4" round bar and pushed it through the barrel - yup, tight spots.

Also found that my groove diameter was 0.4315" (well, between 0.431" & 0.432").

I hand lapped to remove the tight spots then retested a few of the various weight bullets and got about the same results - anything over 265 gr. didn't shoot well.

The Greenhills formula indicates 0.72" as being the max. length for a boolit in 1:38 twist. So far my results are about in line. I know boolit shape has an effect and many here use much heavier boolts with success - but not in my gun so far anyway.

Another observation. My Lyman 429421 casts at 0.430" so is small for my barrel. It doesn't feed well when crimped in the crimp groove as it is too long, doesn't feed well whem crimped over the front driving band because the shoulder hangs up.

Personally I don't see any purpose in the semi wadcutter style and would go round nose flat point or truncated cone. You might want to slug your bore to determine diameter then purchase some cast boolits of varying styles and weights that suit it before getting a mould just to be sure what your gun likes.

Longbow

[Pop Gun]

Longbow,

Strange huh? I have a browning 92 and an 1894. The Marlin will, where the 92 won't, and visa versa. I have measured both twists many times and they are 38 twist. The 92 is micro groove and the Marlin is not. The Marlin is .431 and the 92 is .430.

I have tried jacketed and cast. I played with bullet diameter on cast from .435 on down in .0005 increments. I played with seating depths to the point of single loading.

In the end, the Marlin will shoot 300 grainers and stabilize them to at least 100 yards. Not real accurately, but the holes are round. The 92 will not come close to stabilizing them in either metal. It clearly has a preference for anything less than 265 grains. But the 92 is more accurate with a wider selection of lower weights than the Marlin across a wider velocity range.

So no tellin until you try.

[ron brooks]

Longbow,

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

Ron

[Newtire]

Yup .44 Man,
Using that same load with the Lee 310RF and getting real nice accuracy out of my Ruger rifle. I use that thing in my Marlin .444 too and really groups them tight with full power loads of RX-7, H-335, and H-4198

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got two one micro grove and one conventional rifling and both guns favorite load is the rcbs 240swcgc. Which by the way is one of the most accurate .44 bullets ive tested in alot of guns, and 20 grains of lilgun or 19.5 grains of wc820 with a fed mag primer cast out of 5o5o ww/lyno. Both guns will shoot either of these loads into one hole at 50 yards. I fooled alot with the heavies in the levers but there just to finiky for feeding. This bullet feeds like butter in mine the 245kt is another of my favorite bullets but ive never fooled with it much in the levers as i prefer a gc at the velocitys your getting in a lever. By the way i size to .432 for the levers.

[ron brooks]

Lloyd,

Does the RCBS mold throw them that large or did ou have to modify the mold?

Thanks,

Ron

[44man]

You will have a lot of trouble finding a factory mould throwing that large a boolit. Most will be .429 or so. I get a kick out of guys saying they size larger then a mould will cast unless the mould was lapped. Yeah, some are lucky and get one cut with a new cherry or they Beagle the mould, but the rest of us just do not fall into that stuff. You want a large mould? Get a custom one. I have never seen a factory mould throw a .432, a .454 (Other then Rapine.) or .476 yet!

[HEAD0001]

"wow", no one mentioned 2400. I really like that powder, gives good case fill, and meters evenly. I have put 2,000 or more rounds through my 1894. I load 18.0 grains of 2400(do not try this load). I do not size or lube. I do use a redding taper crimp, instead of a roll crimp. I have shot several deer(one at 150 yards), I get great performance, good accuracy, and no leading(9 parts pure lead and 1 part tin). Tom.:castmine:

[44man]

Sorry Tom, yes 2400 is a fine powder too. You said you use a taper crimp, did you mean the profile crimp? A taper crimper tends to size the first drive band down and is not the best.
My Hornady .475 dies came with what they call a taper crimp die, but it does a nice roll crimp so it gets confusing as to what it really is. Looking in the die shows the same shoulder the roll crimp die has. I have never loaded for an auto so I can't compare with, say a .45 ACP die. As much fun as an auto is to shoot, I have no use for a gun that throws the brass out, I shoot all of my friend's autos instead, hee-hee. (Yeah, I still have to help them find the brass, grrr.)

[drinks]

I have had 5, .44 molds.
The best accuracy is with the Lee C429-240-SWC and the Lee C430-310-RF.
I have a Handirifle which I reamed to a .445 SM, still can shoot .44 Mag., for target plinking and almost match .444 results.
In .44 Mag., H110 and 4227 are best for my rifle, with .445 SM, WC 680, Rel7 and 4198 do best, well over 2000fps with the 240 and 1900+ with the 310gr.
Groups are under 1 1/2" at 50 yds and some are just a ragged hole less than 1" across.
My barrel is .431", so I have to make at least .432" to get decent results. I have reamed both molds so they drop at least .433" and am getting good results, at least as good as I can shoot.

[HEAD0001]

I think the die says taper crimp? I will have to get it out. I load the shell out to where the crimp comes right in under the band(almost right up against it). My old eyes can not tell if it is a taper, but it does not look like a full roll crimp. The die does not seem to work the brass as much. I also use the same type die on my 45-70. Tom.