.380acp, 125 gr LRN

[Dewey von]

Has anyone loaded the .380 acp with a cast 125gr boolit? I can't seem to find any data on anything heavier than 120gr.

[NickSS]

I loaded up some with a 124 gr plated bullet and they went bang but I had a lot of problems with the load I used. Not that it was unsafe as it worked well but the gun was almost a single shot affair with it due to bulged cases. The bullet had to be seated so deep that it bulged the cases and some would not fit in the magazine. Basically they worked out to be a two shooter as I could get two in the mag and then it would jam on the next one. Some makes of brass bulged less than others but I was using mixed brass. I loaded them with 1.8 gr of WST. I do not recommend heaviy bullets in the 380 bryond the 120 gr TC Lee bullet. That one seams to work but I tried some 120 gr RN and had similar problems.

[Dewey von]

Thanks for the info. I think I have some load data for a 124gr JHP in my old seirra load manual. The boolits I'm trying to load are 125gr LRN from a Lee mold. I've sized them to .356. I'm basically trying to build a better mouse trap. I personally use a .38 special for concealed carry, but alot of my buddies have a .380. I'm planning on buying a PPK/S to test my boolits with. If I can get a 125gr load as compared to the usual 90gr, I'm sure I could get better penertraion with the .380. Did you do any test with your 124gr? I usually test on Wet magazines, but found a recipe for homade ballistics gel. I plan on trying the .380 on the gel.

[Houndog]

I tried some 115 trunicated cone boolets in my Bersa and never did get them to shoot and feed right. I went back to the Lee 102gr round nose and ALL my problems went away. I presently use 3.7gr Unique in mine and it shoots somewhere around 850FS with groups running sub 2" at 15 yards.

[JIMinPHX]

The .380 is normally loaded up with a 90-100 grain boolit. The .380 has very little case capacity. Going to a heavier (longer) boolit means that you are going to shrink the size of the powder cavity if you seat to the same COAL. That tends to cause higher pressures. This especially concerns me in the .380 because most of the guns in that caliber are either very small or straight blow back actions. If you have a good strong locked breach gun like a mustang or a star, I might think about hot rodding it up a little, but otherwise, I'd tend to tread gently on that particular cartridge. That's just me though. Others may have more experience in that particular endeavor.

I've done most of my reloading in that caliber for a PPK. For me, the Lee 102gr LRN works great in that cartridge with either Bullseye or Unique. The PPK is a very well made gun, but it is still just a blow back action. Heavy charges are not comfortable to shoot in that gun. I don't push my luck with it.

[rintinglen]

I have tried the 358-242 120 grain version in my PPK and in my Berretta84f. It was more hassle than it was worth. The cases bulged, I could scarcely get them loaded short enough, and velocities were down in the you-could-spit-a-watermelon-seed-faster range. I managed to make them work by resizing them after loading to iron the bulge. They still shot high, though.

[Dewey von]

Thanks for the info guys. I still haven't purchased my .380 yet. But plan on looking for one this weekend. I was also looking at the RSI pressure trace to record pressures, and keep it under 21,000 psi, Which I think is the SAAMI max for .380. If I use the pressure trace I'll probably opt for the Berretta 84f, due to having to glue the pressure transducer to the barrel to record with the RSI unit. It sounds like I need to just go with the 102gr LRN, but what the heck, thats all the fun in reloading is trying to improve on what is available as long as we do it safely. I should be able to post some results after the thanksgiving weekend. Thanks again for the input.

[JIMinPHX]

The 9mm Lugar cartridge does well with a 125 grain boolit. The brass in that caliber is thicker & the guns in that caliber are stronger. You can get pretty small guns in that caliber of you want to. For the price of a PPK, there are several 9-irons that you could choose from. You might want to consider some options along those lines if the 125grain boolit is a must have for you.

[HollowPoint]

I was out just yesterday shooting my new 380 for the first time. I too was shooting the Lee 102 grain round nose; except that I had hollow Pointed them to get me down to 100 grains.

The little Keltec I was shooting did quite well with these loads. I have to admit I had them loaded kind of stiff with 3 grains of HP38. I can't imagine going with a projectile as heavy as 125.

I know it's been safely done before but it gets to a point where you get diminished returns for your efforts. I have to agree that stepping up to a 9mm may be a more logical alternative than doing a possible balancing act with safety concerns and actual improvements in terminal ballistics on a 380 ACP caliber.

HollowPoint

[atr]

I have used the 125gr cast in a .380 Lama,,,action very similiar to a 1911....worked great !!....I approached the max load given for a 100gr with caution and never had any problems....used Bullseye. I did notice that the recoil action was alot sharper when using the 125 gr cast.

wish I hadn't sold that Lama but I got tired of picking up brass and switched back to revolvers

[Dewey von]

Thanks for the replies. Yes the 9mm would make a good CCW. My personal favorite CCW is an airwieght S&W in .38 special. All my other handguns are Kimber, and Springfield 1911s. I doubt I will ever carry the .380. However a lot of my friends do. The main argument I've heard about the .380 is lack of penetration. I would like to see if I can tweak the little cartridge, and see what can be got out of it safely. I think this would benefit alot of shooters who carry it. Maybe we'll see a +P. Given the recent gain in popularity of the .380 who knows?

[Dewey von]

After looking at numerous .380 auto's I finally purchased a Bersa firestorm. It's basically a PPK clone. The fit, and finish is very good for a pistol in this price range. I also found load data for 124 grain jacketed for .380 acp. This load calls for 2.4 grains of HP38. I loaded 125 gr LRN cast with a Lee mould. with 2.4 grains of HP38. The boolits were sized to .356. Case capacity after charging with powder left plenty of room to seat the boolits to .982 so this shouldn't be a compressed load. After loading the cases had a slight bulge, but only .002 more than factory. I first fired 95gr Winchester FMJ for comparison. I then loaded up with the 125gr LRN. I had no problems with feeding, and the recoil seemed the same as the 95gr FMJs. Hopefully I'll have some chrono info soon. Does anyone have any recommendations for a chronograph?

[Dewey von]

Just did a penetration test. My daughter was gracious enough to let me have a few paper backs with the understanding that I would by her some new ones. These are small childrens paper backs, about 1/4" to 1/2". I first shot winchester 95 gr. FMJs with penetration of 7 books, and further damage to books 8, and 9. Next I shot the 125gr cast boolits loaded with 2.4 grains of HP38. The boolit penetrated to book 10 with damage to 11, and 12. I should be recieving in a chronograph this week, and will post the chrono results asap.

[Dewey von]

I loaded up some with a 124 gr plated bullet and they went bang but I had a lot of problems with the load I used. Not that it was unsafe as it worked well but the gun was almost a single shot affair with it due to bulged cases. The bullet had to be seated so deep that it bulged the cases and some would not fit in the magazine. Basically they worked out to be a two shooter as I could get two in the mag and then it would jam on the next one. Some makes of brass bulged less than others but I was using mixed brass. I loaded them with 1.8 gr of WST. I do not recommend heaviy bullets in the 380 bryond the 120 gr TC Lee bullet. That one seams to work but I tried some 120 gr RN and had similar problems.

Try using a Lee factory crimp die. After seating all your boolits, remove the seater screw. Run the loaded case a few times in and out the factory crimp die. This will remove the bulge caused by seating the bullet. I could really tell a difference after doing this. No more rounds dragging in the mag.

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

I have loaded and used the 380 as a CCW and as a plinker from time to time. I own a Taurus 738 that my wife carries cause "it fits in my pocket nicer".

I make two bullets for the 380, the Lee 102 and a new Ranch Dog Outdoors 100 grn FN. Both are cast from a hard alloy and work well. The RDO, in my opinion is the better of the two because of the large flat meplat.

I load 2.8 grn HP38 with the bullet sized to .356". The RDO has been tested, not exctensively, in my Taurus and a borrowed Walther PPK/S. Both weapons fed the bullet with no FTE, FTL and acceptable accuracy ( under 4" at 15 yards ) for the pocket guns they are.

:lovebooli

[Russ in WY]

I have a very nice 95 gr JHP from Montana Gold that is .355 . Loads & shoots great .
Have 95 gr HP mold that I will soon cast a few & try, had planned on sizing to .355 just wondering about the .356 & .355 dia to use...Russ.
PS: Bersa CC model I am shooting..

[Ranch Dog]

Has anyone loaded the .380 acp with a cast 125gr boolit? I can't seem to find any data on anything heavier than 120gr.

I actually shoot a 125-grain RF nosed bullet of my design in a full frame 380, the JA-LC380. Its a cheap pistol and say what you want but it goes bang at the trigger pull and hits what you are aiming at. I use QuickLoad to generate my data. I cannot pressure test the semi-auto pistol load for the reasons posted earlier in this thread. My experience with both the pressure trace equipment against QL is that it is very accurate so I go with what it says.

I'm using 3.5-grains of Unique at 850 FPS. At 7-yards and from a self defense shooting stance all 12 rounds out of my pistol fall into a 1" black square box on a target. At 15-yards, I see a 2" 12-shot group but it falls apart beyond that. I consider it a sight system problem more than a load/bullet/firearm issue at that point.

I like the idea of a "heavy" bullet in the 380 Auto. If you use the Hatcher Index as a comparison standard against it and a 9mm 115-grain bullet, the heavy 380 Auto bullet has a better "index" number. I shoot a lot of 380 Auto and 9mm Luger ammo up and the subsonic bullet out of the 380 auto is a lot easier on the ears!

A heavy bullet will not work in a sub compact. The magazines in these pistols define OAL and the bullets must be seated too deep; hence, load performance is reduced because of the limited case capacity.

[Dframe]

The .380 is normally loaded up with a 90-100 grain boolit. The .380 has very little case capacity. Going to a heavier (longer) boolit means that you are going to shrink the size of the powder cavity if you seat to the same COAL. That tends to cause higher pressures. This especially concerns me in the .380 because most of the guns in that caliber are either very small or straight blow back actions. If you have a good strong locked breach gun like a mustang or a star, I might think about hot rodding it up a little, but otherwise, I'd tend to tread gently on that particular cartridge. That's just me though. Others may have more experience in that particular endeavor.

I've done most of my reloading in that caliber for a PPK. For me, the Lee 102gr LRN works great in that cartridge with either Bullseye or Unique. The PPK is a very well made gun, but it is still just a blow back action. Heavy charges are not comfortable to shoot in that gun. I don't push my luck with it.
Jim said it very well. The 380s tiny case capacity combined with the most common blowback actions does not lend itself well to hotrodding. I've loaded and fired 115 grain bullets quite successfully but only at somewhat reduced charges. Any bullet heavier would be cause for concern over diminished powder chamber and correspondingly higher pressures.

[bobthenailer]

if you want penetration and expansion for the 380 acp try a box of barnes 90 gr tac xp bullets they come 40 to a box for about 23 dollars from mid south! much cheaper than buying corbon factory tac xp ammo at almost 40 dollars a box for 20 rounds.
so far i have bought the tac-xp bullets to reload the 380 / 9mm / and 45 acp , reloading info is on barnes websight.

[Dewey von]

Thanks for the info. I'm happy to see that I'm no the only one to try this, and to see some value of a heavier bullet. I will have to get my hands on some quick load software. I'm still interested in the pressure trace equipment, and will probably get my hands on it at a later date. I did finally recieve in my chrony, but I've been on an oil rig in the gulf of mexico for a week and a half, and still have two weeks to go. I'll post some fps data, as soon as I get back home.

[Dewey von]

I actually shoot a 125-grain RF nosed bullet of my design in a full frame 380, the JA-LC380. Its a cheap pistol and say what you want but it goes bang at the trigger pull and hits what you are aiming at. I use QuickLoad to generate my data. I cannot pressure test the semi-auto pistol load for the reasons posted earlier in this thread. My experience with both the pressure trace equipment against QL is that it is very accurate so I go with what it says.

I'm using 3.5-grains of Unique at 850 FPS. At 7-yards and from a self defense shooting stance all 12 rounds out of my pistol fall into a 1" black square box on a target. At 15-yards, I see a 2" 12-shot group but it falls apart beyond that. I consider it a sight system problem more than a load/bullet/firearm issue at that point.

I like the idea of a "heavy" bullet in the 380 Auto. If you use the Hatcher Index as a comparison standard against it and a 9mm 115-grain bullet, the heavy 380 Auto bullet has a better "index" number. I shoot a lot of 380 Auto and 9mm Luger ammo up and the subsonic bullet out of the 380 auto is a lot easier on the ears!

A heavy bullet will not work in a sub compact. The magazines in these pistols define OAL and the bullets must be seated too deep; hence, load performance is reduced because of the limited case capacity.

Thanks for the info. I'm happy to see that I'm no the only one to try this, and to see some value of a heavier bullet. I will have to get my hands on some quick load software. I'm still interested in the pressure trace equipment, and will probably get my hands on it at a later date. I did finally recieve in my chrony, but I've been on an oil rig in the gulf of mexico for a week and a half, and still have two weeks to go. I'll post some fps data, as soon as I get back home.

[Dewey von]

if you want penetration and expansion for the 380 acp try a box of barnes 90 gr tac xp bullets they come 40 to a box for about 23 dollars from mid south! much cheaper than buying corbon factory tac xp ammo at almost 40 dollars a box for 20 rounds.
so far i have bought the tac-xp bullets to reload the 380 / 9mm / and 45 acp , reloading info is on barnes websight.

I will have to check them out. I have a box of corbon 45acp that my wife had picked up for me. haven't shot any yet. I was keeping them for self defense loads. I shoot the barnes spitfire in my .50 cal muzzleloader. Best groups I've ever gotten with a smoke pole.

[Ranch Dog]

Jim said it very well. The 380s tiny case capacity combined with the most common blowback actions does not lend itself well to hotrodding. I've loaded and fired 115 grain bullets quite successfully but only at somewhat reduced charges. Any bullet heavier would be cause for concern over diminished powder chamber and correspondingly higher pressures.

A heavier bullet does not mean higher pressures if the loadwork is right.

[BCall]

Dredging this one back up, I finished loading some Ranchdog 125's today. Using Unique as well, 3.4 gr. Works fantastic in my 380 Hi-Point, which is basically a 380 on a 9mm frame, just like RD's LC-380. Shoots good and I have yet to have an FTE or FTF with it. These 125's do just fine in the large frame, but like RD said, they don't function in a compact type gun. I also cast some RCBS 9mm-115-RN in the picture. RCBS has load data for them in their cast manual. I load these the same as the RD, sized .358 on both, TL liquid alox, then sized, the TL with the 45-45-10 mix. Works great. Will be loading RD 100 gr boolits for the LCP next. Thanks, Billy
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN851331.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Looks good Billy! I continue to see the same performance from the LC380. It just spits them out. I wrote a little program that visualizes group size so if your browser is at 100%, the rings are correctly sized...

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Firearms/JALC380/Images/LC380_Max_Loads_Group_Size.gif

These are results from 10-shots at 7-yards from a self defense stance, not shot from a rest. I found Unique and Universal performance identical, the rings are overlaid but Unique was 50 FPS quicker in my testing.

I did the loading on my Lee Turret press with the Auto-Index engaged, using the Auto-Disk to drop the powder. The Unique metered quite well. For production, I moved everything to my Load Master and the Auto-Disk and Unique did not mix well. The charges were very inconsistent. I think the starting and stopping at each stage on the turret press packs the Auto-Disk cavity for the drop. You get one drop with four ram cycles. The Load Master drops with every ram cycle plus the press is extremely smooth, no vibration. Those big flakes of powder do not like that.

[Dframe]

A heavier bullet does not mean higher pressures if the loadwork is right.
Ranchdog I didn't mean to imply that it did. I was merely pointing out that sooner or later you reach a point of diminishing returns. The 380s tiny case capacity gets you there pretty quickly with heavier than standard bullets.

[BCall]

Thanks Michael, I started with titegroup, but switched to Unique. I don't think it shot appreciably better in my gun, but it "felt" better.

That situation you describe with the Unique on the Loadmaster was why I started with Titegroup. I was loading on a Pro1000, and even though it's not a smooth press, the auto disc did not like to throw unique consistently. I hope to have a turrent press setup soon, hopefully it will solve the problem for the reasons you describe. Thanks, Billy

[Fly-guy]

I've been casting the Lee "TL 356 124gr rn" sized to .356, lubed with 45/45/10 and then loading 1.7 gr of Bullseye with good accuracy. The oal measures .990 and this load works great in my LCP!

[dogbert41]

Last time out shooting I put about 100 rounds of lee 358-105 swc on 2.5 grains 231 for a very very pleasant load in the LCP. I believe I sized to 356 and lubed 50/50 lla and jp.

Functioned 100%.

I tried a load out with the Lee tl 124 tc and it shot and functioned well, but for the light LCP I prefer the lighter bullets for shooting comfort.

I carry hollow points for business, but I would definitely go for the heavier bullet if I didn't have them.

[blade]

This was great information. I didn't find anything for 125 grain for 380 ACP in Lyman 49th Edition.

[forrest-hunter]

Great info

[Outpost75]

I load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with Accurate 35-120H, which runs 100% in my Ruger LCP, Beretta M1934 and SIG P230.

198442

[lotech]

I used the SAECO 122 grain flat nose 9mm design (ww alloy sized to .356") in several .380s (Walthers and a Makarov). I recall no feeding / reliability problems and accuracy was good.

[Texas by God]

I have, but in a locked breech Colt govt model(1987). I used the start load for 95 grn bullet with Bullseye. They worked fine but might be thumpy in a blowback.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

[ichthyo]

I have come close to trying as my lee bullets for my 9mm drop at 124. Just a bit afraid to take the plunge.

[Texas by God]

Just remember the .38S&W cartridge uses 146 to 200 gr bullets with just a bit more case capacity.
So- up to 125 gr in a .380 is safe if done correctly.

[Boogieman]

I loaded Lyman's 358345 SWC in the 380 ,it runs 115 gr. Worked great in my PPK and 380 Colt