Swedish Rolling Block 8 X 58R

[leadman]

Just traded into one of the sporterized RBs in 8x58R Danish. The chamber end of the barrel is octogan, the rest is round. Rifling is very good. No rust to speak of anywhere. Wood has dings and is an old military stock with the disc hole filled. The forend is shortened with a schnabel on the end.

Dutchman said these were converted to smokeless with the new barrel and casehardened receiver.
Plan on shooting light cast in it and may take it hunting as the weight is much less than my 40-65 roller.

Now need to get some proper brass and dies. Got 19 45-70 converted cases but the neck are short. Usable but would like the correct brass. Grafs & Sons has it for lots of money!

[rhbrink]

How much too short are they maybe you could make some out of 45-90 or 45-100 brass don't know how pricey they are but a just a idea.

[Boz330]

I had one of these and it was a fine shooter with 4759. But I wanted a 40-65 for hunting and it is in process right now. Tried to get it done for this season but didn't make it.
I used a set of 8x57 Lee neck size dies on it and they worked fine and a lot cheaper than purpose made dies. Got a Lee custom mold from Mid South which threw a 235gr boolit. BACO sells the brass. If you would like a package deal I would be willing to part with this stuff. Not sure what it would be worth I'll have to check what I paid for it if you are interested. BTW mine shot sub 2 MOA, and was a ball to shoot.

Bob

[leadman]

boz33o, sent you a pm.

[leadman]

While trying to locate 8x58r components for this rifle I contacted Bob Shell in Apache Junction Az.
He does have ammo and also included a link to an article he wrote. I will not include the link because I have concerns with the reloading data presented.

If you come across this article I very strongly advise you to compare it to other sources before considering the use of the data.

Dutchman has several very good articles that are linked on this site and one has pressure tested loads. Dutchman has provided me with a great deal of info on my rifle and is also aware of the article I mentioned.

[happyret65]

I have several of these customized rolling blocks. Great rifles! I found out when I had one of them crowned and cut down a little that the barrel was sleeved. There was silver at the cut off point.

[leadman]

I was wondering if these might not be sleeved as the forend wood looks original (but cut down) and the barrel markings appear original. Will to try to find evidence of this as I clean it up.

I cleaned the bore today, which proved to somewhat difficult due to the recent surgery on my left hand, and I am a lefty.
Going to call C&H tomorrow for dies so I can form my own brass.

[Dutchman]

FYI I use RCBS dies for 8x58RD. No problems with them.

From the very thorough historical research done on this cartridge the maximum chamber pressure seems to be in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi. (might be a few more). Norma of Sweden is the expert source of information in this caliber for the m/1889 rolling block.

Mine slugs at .324". Some go as large as .327" so the Lee .329" would be the solution to that problem. Mine shoots RCBS .323" 170 gr FN (.32 Winchester Special) really good as well as Lyman 323460 sized .324". My own 323460 sized .325" don't do as good as .324" or .323". Picky rifles but they can be very accurate with cast bullets. I've gotten good accuracy with SR4759 and Unique so far.

There is no more authoritive information on this cartridge in the Swedish rolling block than right here:
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html


Dutch

[leadman]

Dutchman, don't know when you bought the RCBS dies but they are about $140 now, C&H are about $80. C&H won't have any dies until April or May.
As I am getting formed brass, neck size dies, and a mold from boz330 I should be able to shoot this rifle until I can get a die.
I have read a few comments on the neck of the cartridge breaking off. I did notice on the cartridges that came with the rifle that there is a line at the bottom of the shoulder.
Could it be possible that these are sleeved barrels and this is where the sleeve stops?
I will make a chamber cast when I am able to see what I am dealing with.

[happyret65]

I don't know the brand name on the brass you have, but I got Bertram brass and fire formed the brass with corn meal and red dot. Lost half of the brass to fire forming until I held the rifle in the straight down position and fire forming loss was hardly nothing. You'll find the chamber is big for the brass you have and the barrel is over size also. I went to breech seating and used 8x56r brass, 4759 16 grains, .327-190 grain bullet and have a great target rifle. Good luck.

[Dutchman]

The barrels are not sleeved. I suspect just 19th century tool marks in the chamber. A light polishing might be indicated.

I bought the RCBS 8x58RD dies in about 2000 and as I recall they were $65. I'm sure they've sold a lot more in the last 10 years than in the 10 years prior to 2000..

Bertram brass is undersized in the body. They do need to be fire formed, in two steps preferably. And I've lost a few in the process of fire forming, too. Bertram in Australia was notified that their brass was splitting but I don't know if they ever remedied the problem. Doesn't sound like it. We did a comparison with Bertram, Buffalo Arms and original Norma 8x58RD so we know what 8x58RD is supposed to be. I have quite a few Norma 8x58RD and some Danish military 8x58RD. The Swedish and Danish are the same dimensionally.

Dutch

[leadman]

Dutchman, thanks for the info on the barrels, was concerned. When my hand gets a little better I will do a chamber cast and slug the barrel.
I got the brass and dies from boz330 but it won't chamber in my rifle so am going to try to find a full length die tomorrow.
A couple of the rounds I got with the rifle have pinholes in the shoulder/neck area. I think I need to anneal the brass.

[leadman]

Took the RB to the range today even though my hand is not healed. I'm a lefty and it is my left thumb that had a joint fused so had to change my shooting style. Used my Caldwell front rest, 2 shot bags with corn cob for the butt. Squeezed the shot bags for elevation and pulled the trigger with my right hand. Not the best but worked.
Anyway, just about everything shot well, even the too short 45-70 reformed brass. The brass I got from Boz330 here is perfect.
The pictures are of the Lee boolit for the M95 Steyr sized to .325", 20 and 21 grs. of SR4759, 4 shots each. 20grs.= .823", 21grs= .860". Range was 50 yards.

Might have been able to do better with a good hand, but can't complain about todays results.

Also shot the Lyman 170gr. Louverin boolit with 12grs of Unique and it did well at 5 shots in 2.5" with a flyer, 4 went into .8".
No leading with any loads, cases look excellent. Just a good day.

[Dutchman]

Does your rifle have the standard heavy trigger pull?

I put the music wire trigger spring in mine and it reduced the trigger pull dramatically. Cost $10 from www.rollingblockparts.com . I also worked over the mainspring with a rotary sanding drum and coarse/fine india stone with oil.

http://images110.fotki.com/v560/photos/4/28344/8473790/DSCF1570rb-vi.jpg
http://images12.fotki.com/v252/photos/4/28344/8473790/DSCF0805vb-vi.jpg

This is what the mainspring looked like before:

http://images54.fotki.com/v543/photos/4/28344/8473790/DSCF9759rb-vi.jpg

I also highly recommend Tetra lube grease. Very slippery stuff.

I think I'm going to be getting an original Swedish chambering reamer for 8x58RD pretty soon. Don't know what I'll do with it:).

I also just got the Lee custom 8mm Maximum double cavity bullet mold from Midsouth. At 225 grains it's perfectomundo for the rolling block. The original was 236 grains.

http://images51.fotki.com/v1586/photos/4/28344/7937087/RB04-vi.jpg

http://images27.fotki.com/v1022/photos/2/28344/3886627/rbam1-vi.jpg

http://images51.fotki.com/v1550/photos/2/28344/3886627/rbam4-vi.jpg

http://images51.fotki.com/v1545/photos/2/28344/3886627/z3-vi.jpg

[Boz330]

Took the RB to the range today even though my hand is not healed. I'm a lefty and it is my left thumb that had a joint fused so had to change my shooting style. Used my Caldwell front rest, 2 shot bags with corn cob for the butt. Squeezed the shot bags for elevation and pulled the trigger with my right hand. Not the best but worked.
Anyway, just about everything shot well, even the too short 45-70 reformed brass. The brass I got from Boz330 here is perfect.
The pictures are of the Lee boolit for the M95 Steyr sized to .325", 20 and 21 grs. of SR4759, 4 shots each. 20grs.= .823", 21grs= .860". Range was 50 yards.

Might have been able to do better with a good hand, but can't complain about todays results.

Also shot the Lyman 170gr. Louverin boolit with 12grs of Unique and it did well at 5 shots in 2.5" with a flyer, 4 went into .8".
No leading with any loads, cases look excellent. Just a good day.


Looks like a shooter, that is pretty much what I was getting from mine.
The trigger on mine was pretty stout but it really didn't seem to be that hard to control. I am going to get one of the springs from RB Parts though for the restocked and re-barreled RB.
Dutchman, how much did sanding the sprin reduce the trigger pull and is that the Marbles sight with interchangeable posts?
Here is a picture of the new stock with the 40-65 barrel. The stock is much farther along now, this was as delivered from Treebone. It has a Neider Steel butt plate (that is a real fun project) and the stock is much closer to final sanding. now.

Bob

[leadman]

I was thinking yesterday that this would be a good chambering for an Encore barrel. Would not want to get the ammo mixed up between the 2 guns though.

The trigger pull seems reasonable, but with the way I was shooting it because of my surgery it was hard to control the horizonal spread. Time will fix that. Still might buy the new trigger spring.
Boz, that roller looks very nice and you will really like the 40-65. In my Pedersoli I shoot the 265gr. RFN revolver bullet and the 400 gr. Snover. Both very accurate.

[Boz330]

The 40-65 isn't new to me, that will be my 3rd. The barrel on that RB came off of my Highwall when I went to a 16 twist Badger barrel. I also have a Ballard with a Badger 16 twist barrel. That barrel is 18 twist and I am building the RB for deer hunting. I also own the reamer that all of these were chambered with so you might say I like the 40-65.
I'm looking at something in the 300gr range for a boolit for it. That barrel has accounted for 2 deer with the RCBS 350gr and BP which in all honesty is overkill. The one shot was quartering from the right rear at 100yd and the boolit went clean through hitting multiple bones during that trip. What mold is that pistol boolit? That might be a possibility.

Bob

[Dutchman]

Dutchman, how much did sanding the sprin reduce the trigger pull and is that the Marbles sight with interchangeable posts?


Can't really say what effect it had to polish the mainspring as I put the new trigger spring in at the same time. But with how rough it was before I can't help but think it helped somewhat. The Marble's is not the newer type with interchangeable post. I actually need a little bit taller front now. I put in the lowest Marble's ivory bead but it needs to come up some.

http://images34.fotki.com/v1143/photos/4/28344/7937087/RB06-vi.jpg

Dutch

[leadman]

The 265gr pistol bullets I bought from Cast Performance to try in my SBH Hunter in 41mag. It did not like them.
I had them so tried them in the RB with 5744. Trajectory is much flatter and they shoot 5 into about 2" at 200 yards. That is after I sorted them by weight. They vary about 5grs per box of 100. Think this an LBT design.
I tried my 220gr truncated cone Saeco bullet but it did not shoot as well with the same powder charge. Haven't done any experimenting with charges yet.
I would like to get a shorter rear sight for the Swedish RB as this is off my Pedersoli as the one that came on it had a very loose stem.

[Dutchman]

When you're shooting formed cases it's nice to know what the original dimensions are.

Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.

case OAL = 2.272"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .574"
rim thickness = .058"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"

Norma commercial 8x58RD
headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89

case OAL = 2.266"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .576"
rim thickness = .059"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
(same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)

[Boz330]

The 265gr pistol bullets I bought from Cast Performance to try in my SBH Hunter in 41mag. It did not like them.
I had them so tried them in the RB with 5744. Trajectory is much flatter and they shoot 5 into about 2" at 200 yards. That is after I sorted them by weight. They vary about 5grs per box of 100. Think this an LBT design.
I tried my 220gr truncated cone Saeco bullet but it did not shoot as well with the same powder charge. Haven't done any experimenting with charges yet.
I would like to get a shorter rear sight for the Swedish RB as this is off my Pedersoli as the one that came on it had a very loose stem.

Depending on how far you want to shoot that Swede, Track of the Wolf has a cheap, short vernier tang site that will work on the RB. I had one on mine and it worked just fine for what I was doing. For the converted RB for hunting I'm going with a Marble's or the C-sharps copy of the Ideal.
I put a Marble's on my 75 Sharps for deer season but it had way too much fore and aft slop in the upright position. I sent it back and they fixed it, but I'm not sure what caused it because it was tight when I got it. The Ideal has an adjustment for the upright position so you can fine tune it, where as the Marble's is set at the factory.

Bob

[leadman]

Thanks for the dimensions of the cases Dutchman. The cases I got from Boz are within specs, the ones that came with the gun are short, but work.
Boz, the tang sight I haveon the gun now is propably good for at least 1000 yards. Don't think I will shoot it that far for awhile at least. I think if I want to try it I will use the bullet from the mold you sold me.