crimp die

[Beekeeper]

Calling all tinkerers,
I am starting to get serious about reloading P/P boolits for my 43 Mausers.

Normal seating crimp die is .446
My groove is .449.
If I use the seating die to seat the boolit and crimp I cut the patch.
Was looking on the Lee site and they have a number of different factory crimp dies but do not give any deminsions.
Was thinking the 444 Marlin die might work but have no way of measuring it.
Anyone know the internal sizes of the different Lee Factory Crimp Dies?

Want to keep the seating die as is as I also want to shoot .446 Grease Groove Boolits using BP and it works fine there.


Jim

[noylj]

Sounds like a post for paper patch or black powder forum. Also, sounds like a call to Lee would be good.

[Beekeeper]

Oh I don't know,
It is a question about reloading equipment and does have something to do with reloading!
It doesn't have anything to do with P/P and very little to do with BP.

Jim

[BCB]

Beekeeper,

This may or may not help…

The Lee Crimping die for straight wall cases (444 Marlin and such) has a different crimping mechanism then the ones for bottle-neck cases…

I don’t know what the case for the 43 Mauser is—guess I could have looked it up!...

That is something to think about…

Good-luck…BCB

[Pepe Ray]

BeeKeeper;
I've just reviewed the 8th Ed. of Cartridges of the World. I find no 43 Mauser listed. Tried to find aliases to no avail.
Does your ctrg. have another name?
The Lee FCD for rifles is of the collet type and gives lots of flexibility in adjustments. I've also made some "Bubba" adaptations with them that was successful.
BUT-- until I can ID your ctg I can give you no more specific info.
Pepe Ray

[BCB]

BeeKeeper;
The Lee FCD for rifles is of the collet type and gives lots of flexibility in adjustments.


Pepe Ray,

The bottle neck crimping dies are collet type, the straight wall are not, at least the ones I have aren't...

I did put a 30-30 case into the collet of the crimp die for that cartridge and there is not too much extra space...

I think it will be critical as to the neck diameter of the 43 Mauser (?) as compared to the 444 Marlin. Plus, there might be too much or not enough depth to the collet when it is in the die and the sizing is attempted...

But, the key issue here is, "What is the 43 Mauser? (!)...

I am curious about this process now...

BCB

[Pepe Ray]

BCB;
My .444 FCD is of the collet type. I can't give relevant measurements from it, however, because I've already modified it to a different use.
Pepe Ray

[Mk42gunner]

Jim,

The .444 FCD won't work, the .444 case is a straight taper from .470" at the head to .453" at the case mouth.

Do you really want a crimp, or are you merely trying to iron out the flare from seating the boolit? If the later, what about using a steel straight walled pistol die like the 41 Mag or possibly 44 Special and lapping it to the diameter you need? Or maybe a lapped out Leee boolit sizing die?

Suggestions, maybe they won't work, but then again they might. Using dies for things they aren't designed for is what allowed me to load .45 ACP shotshells.

Robert

[Mk42gunner]

BeeKeeper;
I've just reviewed the 8th Ed. of Cartridges of the World. I find no 43 Mauser listed. Tried to find aliases to no avail.
Does your ctrg. have another name?
The Lee FCD for rifles is of the collet type and gives lots of flexibility in adjustments. I've also made some "Bubba" adaptations with them that was successful.
BUT-- until I can ID your ctg I can give you no more specific info.
Pepe Ray

It is in the 11th Ed. as the 11.15x60Rmm (43) Mauser (11x60Rmm Mauser).

The first Mauser cartridge, used in the 1871 and 71/84 Mauser rifles.

Robert

[Pepe Ray]

Mk42Gunner;
Thanks, I finally found it. And you are correct in that the .444 FCD is too small as produced.
However, unless Lee will make a special die for Beekeeper, there is enough material in the unit to allow converting to something useful.
The collet will need to be opened more (Dremell tool) and it must be shortened so the neck of the case will reach the collet mouth (Dremell tool)
The FCD will accept the neck but NOT the body of that case.
The simplest solution is for Lee to make one for him, but I've long ago learned to NOT rely on such favors.
Anyhow, if it were mine that's what I would do.
Good luck
Pepe Ray

[BCB]

BCB;
My .444 FCD is of the collet type. I can't give relevant measurements from it, however, because I've already modified it to a different use.
Pepe Ray

I wonder why some are collet and some are the other type (for lack of a name for it!). Is it because the 444 is not a straight wall case?

BCB

[Beekeeper]

Mk42gunner,
I am looking for something to remove the slight bell in the mouth of the case theat you need to start seating the P/P boolit.
Everything I have tried simply cuts the patch at the top of the case
The 43 Mausers that I have have a bore of .434 and a groove of .449.
The normal dies will remove the bell from the grease groove boolits as they are .446 but are a little too small to do the P/P boolits at .449.
I will look at the 41 Mag and 44 special dies as they may work.
I have a hard time finding exact diameter demensions on most of the dies and buying a pig in a poke isn't the best way to go about finding the right one.

Thanks for the info.


Jim

[Pepe Ray]

Bee keeper;
I think that I understand your delema. My delema in trying to help, is SEMANTICS.
Without pictures, it must be done with words.
First, so that I'll know what page I'm on, Do you know what a collet type FCD is and how it works?
It's a 2 piece die with threads ONLY on the body for inserting into the press.
The collet is slightly longer than the body and is actuated by contact with the shell holder.
Let's refer to the collet sections as "Jaws", found at the top. & "Mouth" found at the bottom to receive the case.

Now first, the mouth is too small to accept your large case body, but your case neck appears to be long enough to reach the Jaws if the body of the collet was shortened at the mouth end. (Easy with a Dremell)

The Jaws opening is too small for your case mouth but not by too much. By careful grinding (again Dremell) Can be opened up enough to iron out your case flare.

All this presuming you have the hand/eye skills and ambition to do it.

Have you sought relief from Lee? I've never called them but some ,here, have said that Lee is very accommodating with some custom die work at a very reasonable price. It may be worth a shot ,eh?

Give us an update when you decide on the answer. Good luck!!
Pepe Ray

[Mk42gunner]

Mk42gunner,
I am looking for something to remove the slight bell in the mouth of the case theat you need to start seating the P/P boolit.
Everything I have tried simply cuts the patch at the top of the case
The 43 Mausers that I have have a bore of .434 and a groove of .449.
The normal dies will remove the bell from the grease groove boolits as they are .446 but are a little too small to do the P/P boolits at .449.
I will look at the 41 Mag and 44 special dies as they may work.
I have a hard time finding exact diameter demensions on most of the dies and buying a pig in a poke isn't the best way to go about finding the right one.

Thanks for the info.


Jim

Jim,

I totally missed something in your measurements. I was reading .449" as the neck diameter of your loaded brass, not the groove diameter.

That being the case (no pun intended), how about trying a taper crimp die meant for a .45 ACP. I just measured the opening in the top of my CH taper crimp die and got a measurement of .454". I also tried a resized but not flared .43 Spanish case in it, by hand. The case mouth hit the taper before the shouldr hit the bottom of the die. I couldn't find the neck length of your Mauser case, but it seems to me that it could work.

Given my reduced funding situation; I try to make dies that I already have do double duty if possible.

Robert