460350 vs deer (graphic)

[btroj]

Well, the 460350 over 47 gr of RE7 worked well on my deer.

I learned a few things.

Energy, etc. is NO substitute for a well placed first shot. Three shots was a hard teacher here. Entirely operator error. No excuse for it.


The HP version would be fine for a well plAced lung shot but laves the penetrating ability to overcome the above. Finding a boolit that is wider than it is long is a sure sign of a way to get poor penetration.

Patience in shot placement is critical. Aim small, miss small. Aim big, and learn to follow blood trails. A fellow hunter once said "show me a person good at following blood trails and I'll show you a poor shot with a bow". And he was speaking of himself.

In the end, I did get the deer. Was a nice buck. But the means and method left something to be desired. Need to file this away for next year.

I always find it humbling to do something stupid like this. Makes me work harder next time. And keeps me honest.

Brad

[casey]

Any pics? I will be using that same bullet just two long weeks from today. Iam loading it over 52.0grns. of H4198. Shoots great at 2073fps.

[btroj]

I need to learn up on posting pics here. I've seen numerous threads on how, just never gotten around to doing it.

[Blammer]

go to USERCP, look for Pictures & Albums then go to the bottom and click on 'add album' name it and then add pictures to it.

upload your pics to it, then click on the pic and copy and paste one of the choices you see below it into the thread you want.

[btroj]

This is my first attempt with adding photos so be patient if it does not work.

This is the deer for this year. He was about 50 yards away. Shot him with the NOE 460350 HP lubed with carnuba red over 47 gr of RE7. Velocity was just over 1900 fps.

As you can see from the recovered boolit the velocity/alloy combo caused large weight loss. Unfired boolit weighs 326, recover one was 154 gr. I found this one in the neck as I was cutting off the head. Cabn't help but think the solid would have given MUCH better penetration on a poorly placed shot.

Brad

[JesterGrin_1]

Darn nice Deer you got there though. :)

To be honest I do not know why there is even a HP version lol. I use the RD 460-350 Gr RNFP/GC with great results.

I have not shot a Hog or a Deer as close as 50 yards though as my shots start at about 100 yards to 150. But they have worked great on Hog up to around 300 pounds or so and of course Deer. :)

[Doc Highwall]

btroj, congratulations! I see you have a Marlin 1895 nice gun, I have one also and several Marlin 39A's. I would suggest getting a Marlin 39A because it operates the same as your 1895 except for loading through the tube instead of a side gate. This will give you practice with a gun that operates and feels alot like your 1895 and will not break the bank shooting it.

[Larry Gibson]

btroj

Nice deer

Another lesson there is that is entirely too much HP for that velocity. I learned that lesson almost the same way you have. My guess is that HP bullet was made to expand well down in trapdoor velocities of 1200 - 1400 fps. You might look at getting a new HP stem that is about half that diameter and only HPs to 2/3 the nose length. You don't mention alloy but WW/lead at 50/50 is be my choice for my 45-70 cast bullets that i shoot in the 1800 - 2200 fps range out of my Siamese Mauser.

I also learned the lesson, the hard way, that there is no substitute for proper bullet placement. None the less, good hunting and again, a nice deer.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

Correct on your thoughts on hollow points for bigger game. They are unnecessary, and are not as effective as a solid bullet. On an elk or bear, that could have been a serious boolit failure. Save the hollow point cast boolits for varmint hunting.

Very nice buck!

[Blammer]

Wow! That's a really nice buck there! Glad you got him!

[wilddog45]

Here is the exit wound using a Ranch Dog 460-350 solid which weighs 366gr w gc and my 50-50 alloy using 47gr of RL-7. Nice buck you got there too!!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=433&pictureid=2928

[btroj]

I have shot deer with same rifle in past with "original" RD 350 and 425. Those were both solids, obviously, as Ranch Dog did not do hollow points. These were both one shot kills, but neither was over 20 yards away so shot placement was easy.

No more HP for me for deer. I like penetration. This was also the farthest I have shot a deer in about 8 to 10 years. All of 40 to 50 yards. I must be getting spoiled.

I did not get in the practice I should have this year. I shot about 200 rounds or more getting ready this spring for a bear hunt. I usually would have shot more with the rifle in the fall but just never got around to it. I really like the 405 plain base group buy mould from last year over 24 gr or 2400 for practice. East on the shoulder and accurate enough to keep me honest at 50 to 100 yards.

Thanks for the kind words on the deer. Missouri put in place a point restriction about 5 years ago. Spikes under 3 inches are legal otherwise it must have 4 or more points on 1 side over 1 inch long. We are definitely seeing better bucks because of it. This is tied for the best I have shot.

Brad

[Jack Stanley]

You did double good on this hunt , you got experience and a very nice buck to show for your efforts . The forum also added a bunch of usefull advice as well whats not to like about this deer season huh?

I learned my hollow point lesson with a standard Lyman 429244 with gas check and a large dose of 2400 . I had less bullet leftover that what you're showing but the deer did go down into it's tracks . There are times I still load the hollow point but for penetration I have a LBT to use now .


That really is a nice buck , congrats and find a good taxidermist :bigsmyl2:

Jack

[btroj]

I know a good taxidermist. But I have 5 animals from Africa still with him and a bear rug too.
I new to know my taxidermist less, or so my wide says.......

I was more frustrated with my errors. Nobody likes to make mistakes, I hope? I feel good that I got the buck but it shows that being complacent when hunting can be a tough teacher.

Brad

[home in oz]

btroj, that is a seriously nice deer!

[btroj]

We must be spoiled around here. To my dad and I it is a nice buck, but not a monster by any means. Must be the number of similar bucks we see regularly?
I will say that in the area we hunt there are a large number of nice bucks. And not top many hunters. That coupled with hunting private land makes for a good chance of success evert year.
Now if I could only figure out why I seem to always get my deer Sunday afternoon. Must be that I spend Sat helping dad get his out?

[pls1911]

I'm WAY late to this thread, but certainly affirm the position that hollow points simply are not needed.
Put the RD460350 on the shoulder point about 4" low to the top, and you'll get a deer or big pig DRT right now. Impact velocities can be anywhere from 1300 though 2000 FPS.
Cast soft and heat treated hard, bulllets with big meplats and ample weight are simply slap happy, and take down heavy critters with extreme prejudice.

[1kshooter]

I see a lot of pro's for the Ranch Dog molds ...I just got a .460-420gr does anyone have any experiance that thay can share with this bullet and deer and bear kills?

Brad, congrats on the great buck bro!
Jonathan

[JesterGrin_1]

Sorry 1kshooter I do have the RD .460-420 but have not used it for Bear but I am positive it would be GREAT. It is just more THUMP than I need lol. So I use the RD .460-350Gr on Deer and Hogs.

[1kshooter]

Sorry 1kshooter I do have the RD .460-420 but have not used it for Bear but I am positive it would be GREAT. It is just more THUMP than I need lol. So I use the RD .460-350Gr on Deer and Hogs.

way more then I need to lol but I have had the chance more then once to be hand shaking distance away from big black bears and I like the extra insuriance for breaking them down!...head and shoulders knees and toes .shoot em in the nose..down he goes:grin::grin:

[btroj]

I have shot deer with both the 425 and 350 RD. Both were going around 1700 fps. Those were solid nose bullets. Both hit deer at less than 25 yards. Both deer went down withnin 25 yards. They work quite well.

For bear this year I am using the 420 plain base I used last year. It has a slightly longer nose than the 425 RD but the same size meplat. Last years bear was about 15 yards and the bullets visibly shook him, he ran 20 yards or so, and died. That bullet started at about 1650. I may try a lighter load this year, I don't think the velocity is really needed. I may use my normal "range" load of 24 gr of 2400. Gives very good accuracy at 1350 fps. I KNOW that bullet will go thru any bear i come across at the lower velocity just fine. My shoulder sure likes the lower velocity too.

A big bullet with a flat nose just hammers deer and bears. Can't say enough for the 45-70 and how well it works.

[Doc Highwall]

I think that the hollow point would be good at Black Powder Velocities with a pure lead or lead/tin alloy only, but as the velocity goes up the hollow point should get smaller and smaller to solid nose.

[1kshooter]

X2 with the hollow points!.....save them for the ground hogs!

[Changeling]

Well I am sure I will get bashed but, I have hunted all my life with out regretting a shot animal, I'm a hunter, but I draw the line at shooting deer in the "Head"! It just never set right with me to see such a great animal have to go down in such a distressful fashion! If there is time to shoot him/her in the head, theres time to put the bullet in the neck, if thats all of the animal one can see!!

This is my opinion and I really don't care about yours, or feed back!

[1kshooter]

Well I am sure I will get bashed but, I have hunted all my life with out regretting a shot animal, I'm a hunter, but I draw the line at shooting deer in the "Head"! It just never set right with me to see such a great animal have to go down in such a distressful fashion! If there is time to shoot him/her in the head, theres time to put the bullet in the neck, if thats all of the animal one can see!!

This is my opinion and I really don't care about yours, or feed back!

opinions are like allbows we all got them...as for head shots! ...I respect deer...a lot and I have killed 4 with such shots and bang flop...fastest way to get lights out DRT on a deer! ....I am not trying to me disrespectfull to you or the deer but I would love to know what you mean by distressful to the deer?

as a side note your last line confuses the heck out of me....unless this is your web site?? .....why would you post on a public forum if you don't want feed back?
Jonathan

[waksupi]

opinions are like allbows we all got them...as for head shots! ...I respect deer...a lot and I have killed 4 with such shots and bang flop...fastest way to get lights out DRT on a deer! ....I am not trying to me disrespectfull to you or the deer but I would love to know what you mean by distressful to the deer?

as a side note your last line confuses the heck out of me....unless this is your web site?? .....why would you post on a public forum if you don't want feed back?
Jonathan

That post from the other member is a good example of the kind of disrespectful remarks that should not be on this board. I should actually get rid of it, and issue an infraction. At the time though, I am just going to leave it as a BAD example.