Looking for a Lee 9mm Mold

[HighRoad]

Presently I’m shooting Winchester 9mm Luger 115gr full metal jacket bullets in my Taurus PT92.
I would like to cast some plinking boolets for it.
I would like to get a Lee 6 cavity mold.
I also plan on tumble lubing with the JPW 45-45-10 lube.

If the above assumptions are ok, which Lee mold would you guys recommend?

[theperfessor]

Until you got to the TL part I was ready to suggest the Lee 358-125 RF. You could TL it if you wanted. Sorry, no experience with Lee TL 9mm molds to share.

[MT Gianni]

I had the 124 gr TL a long time ago and it went down the road. It did not group well in a P-89.

[mooman76]

The Lee 105gr SWC is a great little boolit. Good plinker and acurate too.It doesn't have to be a TL mould to use TL on it.

[HighRoad]

Mooman, so I start with this 38 special bullet and size it to .356, right?
Or, I guess I really need to slug the barrel and then size it for .001 over.
Additional thoughts anyone?

And of course, thanks to all for your suggestions.

[Jech]

I don't have experience casting for 9mm yet but when it comes to conventional lube groove versus tumble-lube style, it doesn't really make a difference when you're using 45-45-10. It works just great for me and my Lee 452-230-TC conventional groove boolits. I know others will agree too =D

Hope that helps to remove some restriction on bullet styles :)

[Shiloh]

Mooman, so I start with this 38 special bullet and size it to .356, right?
Or, I guess I really need to slug the barrel and then size it for .001 over.
Additional thoughts anyone?

And of course, thanks to all for your suggestions.

That is what I'm going to try. Sized at .357 I have not had good luck with boolits from 9mm molds. I'm going to go a bit larger diameter.

I have had commercial cast that worked pretty well, but they are gone and the vendor is as well.

Shiloh

[Ugluk]

I tried loading cast in my PT99AFS with no success. Leading and accuracy was really horrible.
I tried Lee 120tc tumble lubed .357 unsized and Lee 105swc sized to .358 also tumble lubed.
Eventually I gave up as I came across an affordable batch of jacketed Nosler 115gr hollow points that shoots real well.
The cast experiments was quite early in my handloading/casting adventures so I think a big part of the failure was inexperience.

I'm currently preparing to give it another go with properly sized and lubed boolits and a special expander plug I made for the powder through die, and separate seat and crimp dies.
I'm thinking the case sized the boolit down as well as scraping off most of the LLA lube.

My barrel slugged .358

If I succeed I'll let you know what made the difference.

[MtGun44]

Start with a Lee 125 TC conventional lube, at least .357 diam.

Bill

[ph4570]

I use the Lee 120Gr TC 6 holer in my Sig P226. I had to beagle it to get the fat boolits my Sig needs. Feeding is flawless and accuracy is good.

[HeavyMetal]

Either the Lee 105 or the Lee 125 RF are good choices, tumble lube in the 9mm gonna give ya trouble.

Sluuging your Taurus barrel a real good idea!!

You may find .357 will work best for you, .001 over, but do not take my word for it slug the barrel!

Pan lube with Carnuba Red if you don't have a lube sizer and make sure you expander plug is not way to small for the boolit you cast, bearing in mind many die makers figure everyone loads 115 ball in the 9mm if they reload!

Avoid the Lee FCD die if you can and be very careful with taper crimping: Bottom line if you can see the crimp it is way to heavy!

[Shiloh]

Start with a Lee 125 TC conventional lube, at least .357 diam.

Bill

If it is the 9mm TC mold, do they drop at .357 or better??
I have had poor results from 9mm cast as they were all to small.

SHiloh

[Ugluk]

My Lee tc 120 drops .357 with 50-50 ww rs. Useless in my Taurus.

I did just fire 20 rounds of lee 105swc that show promise.
A bit of lead on the lands, but nothing like my earlier experiments. I'm going to try a few different loads in the morning when I can shoot some groups at 25m and chrony them. These boolits are lubed with Javelina.

The custom powder through expander plug and separate bullet seating and crimp dies seems to have made a bit of difference.

[Wally]

I have a Taurus..I've used an extensive variety of bullet molds--the one I favor is the Lee 90305 102-1R. W/WW they cast at 108 grains and cast out at .357~.358". Despite it being a RN type it smacks cans just as well as a SWC or a TC... The RN is more sahped like a ball than a traditional RN ogive. I use 4.0 grains of Red Dot... get 1,170 FPS MV. My Taurus will lead up with any cast bullet even oversizes one, but pushing a tight fitting cloth patch removes it very quickly.

[timkelley]

I have three Lee molds I can shoot in my XDs, I size them all at .358 and tumble lube (one light coat ALOX and one light coat JPW). If they dont shoot good it is me and not them. Whichever mold you get, try a couple as cast and see if they will chamber, if they will they will likely shoot. I won't even pretend to be able to argue with so many others who post here but real often, bigger is better, if it will chamber.

[Mikael]

My Lee tc 120 drops .357 with 50-50 ww rs. Useless in my Taurus.

I did just fire 20 rounds of lee 105swc that show promise.
A bit of lead on the lands, but nothing like my earlier experiments. I'm going to try a few different loads in the morning when I can shoot some groups at 25m and chrony them. These boolits are lubed with Javelina.

The custom powder through expander plug and separate bullet seating and crimp dies seems to have made a bit of difference.

VV320?
Looking forward to hearing about your results.
Hope you've made a bunch so you can put some serious rounds through the gun :)
Still waiting for both my lube and sizer so I cant try my LEE 356-120-TC , but I have a feeling, this one will be just fine in my Shadow sized .358 :)
Tried some dummies and I have to set 'em rather deep about 27mm(1.064) but as long as it works, I'm a happy camper :)

The TL356-124-TC was a pain, after 30 rounds my barrel was smeared with lead :(
Might try beagle it, but if the 120 works I dont see the point :)

[Ole]

I use the Lee 125RF, sized to .357". I use the liquid TL and it works well enough for my needs in my SW model 59. Just a hint of leading, nothing terrible. Takes less than 5 minutes to remove with a standard bore brush.

I should have used pan lube, but I made up a big batch of ammo with TL and i'm not pulling the bullets to avoid very slight leading.

[Ugluk]

VV320?
Looking forward to hearing about your results.
Hope you've made a bunch so you can put some serious rounds through the gun :)
Still waiting for both my lube and sizer so I cant try my LEE 356-120-TC , but I have a feeling, this one will be just fine in my Shadow sized .358 :)
Tried some dummies and I have to set 'em rather deep about 27mm(1.064) but as long as it works, I'm a happy camper :)

The TL356-124-TC was a pain, after 30 rounds my barrel was smeared with lead :(
Might try beagle it, but if the 120 works I dont see the point :)

I'm not all that optimistic. Even with the oal at 1.02" the boolit bites in a bit in the rifling and that scares me. It chambers only reluctantly at this big a diameter, but cycles and feeds reliably.

I went with N320 because I've got a few pounds that I don't use for any other load, but I might try N340 if it won't work.
I need to make 1180fps (360m/s) in order to meet the power requirements with this light a boolit, so I suspect I'll have to switch to the 125gr rf when that mold finally arrives. That one's good at 1080fps (330m/s).

The leading I got today was easily wiped out with two pulls of a boresnake, so I don't think it's really accumulating.

I recall loading the Lee 120tc to 27mm as well, but I've only got a two cav mold and I won't bother beagling it if the rf comes through.

[Mikael]

I'm not all that optimistic. Even with the oal at 1.02" the boolit bites in a bit in the rifling and that scares me. It chambers only reluctantly at this big a diameter, but cycles and feeds reliably.

I went with N320 because I've got a few pounds that I don't use for any other load, but I might try N340 if it won't work.
I need to make 1180fps (360m/s) in order to meet the power requirements with this light a boolit, so I suspect I'll have to switch to the 125gr rf when that mold finally arrives. That one's good at 1080fps (330m/s).

The leading I got today was easily wiped out with two pulls of a boresnake, so I don't think it's really accumulating.

I recall loading the Lee 120tc to 27mm as well, but I've only got a two cav mold and I won't bother beagling it if the rf comes through.

Lets hope for the RF then :)
Did you make their thursday delivery?

Was planning on beagling my 120tc but after a quick test run couple hundred boolits, when I measured they were quite oversized so it seem I wont need to beagle :)
Have fun at the range tomorrow, will keep my fingers crossed that you find a good working load :)

[Ugluk]

Fired 20 rounds with 3.5gr n320 and 20 with 3.7. Half through the CED millenium.

All oal 26mm (1.02"). Out of 40, 3 needed a second attempt to chamber.
No signs of excessive pressure, but groups seemed bad (8" or so at 27 yds), a bit less with the lighter ones.
Again a bit of leading, but not severe.


CED says
3.5gr
1) 341.8 -5.0
2) 352.7 5.9
3) 347.3 -0.5
4) 348.2 1.4
5) 347.0 0.2
6) 351.5 4.7
7) 344.8 -2.0
8) 345.7 -1.1
9) 342.4 -4.4
High: 352.7
Low: 342.8
E.S.: 10.1
Ave.: 346.8

3.7gr
1) 361.0 1.5
2) 356.7 -2.8
3) 360.1 1.6
4) 357.3 -2.2
5) 362.8 3.3
6) 361.9 2.4
7) 359.1 -0.4
8) 355.5 -4.0
9) 363.7 4.2
10) 356.4 -3.1
High: 363.7
Low: 355.5
E.S.: 8.2
Ave.: 359.5

I'm not gonna pretend to be able to conclude much from this, but I'm gonna up the charge slightly and try some groups again.

[Ugluk]

Lets hope for the RF then :)
Did you make their thursday delivery?


I think I might have.. I really can't think of a place with worse service..
Ordering from overseas is 2/3 price and half the time.

[MtGun44]

My 356-120 TC Lee 6 cavity (second one I have purchased) drops at .358 or .359
depending on alloy.

I think expecting TL to work with 9mm is asking for a lot of luck. May work, but many
have not had success with this.

THE root problem with 9mm cast boolits is undersized boolits (actually an oversized bore,
but that is uncorrectable, at least at a reasonable cost). In my experience with 2 SIGs,
a B92, HighPower and PF9 are that .357" 120 TC works fine, does not lead at max load levels
with Vectran SP8 (extremely rare in USA, got 8 lbs cheap and am shooting it up) and will
chamber in all my 9mms. The Lee 105 SWC design is also excellent and very accurate,
great in 9mm altho sold as a .38/.357 boolit design.

We have had MANY people come here for help with severe inaccuracy and leading with
9mm, usually undersized commercial boolits and many with Lee TL designs. .356 in most
9mms is going to hit the target sideways and often leads very badly, too. Apparently only
a minority of 9mm barrels are small enough to handle .355 or .356 diameter cast boolits.

Bill

[Cowboy T]

Mooman, so I start with this 38 special bullet and size it to .356, right?
Or, I guess I really need to slug the barrel and then size it for .001 over.
Additional thoughts anyone?

And of course, thanks to all for your suggestions.

Exactly. I've used this very boolit in both .38 Spl and 9mm applications. Ruger SR9's absoultely love it.

Another excellent one is the TL356-124-2R. While intended for 9mm Para semi-autos, the boolits drop from my mould at 0.3575" to 0.3580". This is perfect for my .357 Magnum, and I do size this TL boolit down to 0.356" for 9mm applications.

And yes, you can TL boolits that use traditional lube grooves. I do it all the time for several calibers with excellent results.

[Cowboy T]

My 356-120 TC Lee 6 cavity (second one I have purchased) drops at .358 or .359
depending on alloy.

I think expecting TL to work with 9mm is asking for a lot of luck. May work, but many
have not had success with this.

THE root problem with 9mm cast boolits is undersized boolits (actually an oversized bore,
but that is uncorrectable, at least at a reasonable cost).


The cure, or rather workaround, for that is to match boolit hardness to the load's pressure. This will give good obturation and eliminate the leading and other problems. I've got a Lee ".452" mould that drops boolits between 0.4505" and 0.4525". That's too small for a Super Redhawk to stay happy...until I matched the hardness to the load's pressure of 27,000 to 30,000 PSI (these are .45 Colt "Magnum" loads). Boolit strength is 15-16 BHN. Leading and precision problems went bye-bye, and I started getting very tight groups. The difference, once I hit that sweet spot, was dramatic. This pressure range is also appropriate for 9mm Para applications, and BHN 15-16 alloys have shown to shoot very precisely in the 9mm as well.

Yes, the really best fix is to open up the mould's cavities some, and I will do that when I get time. But this workaround actually does work, and amazingly well.



The Lee 105 SWC design is also excellent and very accurate,
great in 9mm altho sold as a .38/.357 boolit design.

+1 to that. The design is basically, "LSWC meets TC". Looks like a Crayola crayon tip. :-D This boolit style has proved to be very versatile.

[MtGun44]

Whacking them hard enought to bump up is much less predictable than making them
the correct size to begin with, IMO. Not saying it can't work, just that it is harder to get
it right (esp when you have alloy variations like most of us do, from batch to batch) than
using the correct size boolits right off the bat.

+1 on Crayola tip, I have thought the same thing. I've been shooting that 105 gr in 9mm
since the late 70s and it is a dandy. Mini H&G 68 for 9mm, basically.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I'm a BIG believer in 1) fatter is better in 9mm and 2) don't ruin good boolits that are big enough by a) excessive taper crimping or b) by taper crimping while seating the boolits or c) using too small an expander spud. Ditto this drill in 40 S&W and 10mm. 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP pistols seem to have more consistently correct internal dimensions than do 9mm barrels. Good also to see our Swedish membership active and busy!

[HighRoad]

Well I was considering getting the lee 358-125-RF because I could find load data for that but I didn't like that it only comes in a 2 Cavity mold.

Now I'm back to thinking about the lee 358-105-SWC. It comes in the 6 cavity mold but I can't find any load data. Anybody got load data to share? I would like to use Bullseye if possible.

Also will be using WW alloy with a little 95/5 solder. I planned on water dropping them to bring up the hardness but have no way of testing; thoughts?

[biscot]

HighRoad,
The 358-125-RF comes in 6-cavity. Part number 90306.
I bought one recently from Midway or Grafs, don't remember which.

[Ugluk]

My 6-cav came in today. It's been boiled clean and I'm gonna try it out tonight as soon as the kids go to sleep..
Looks like a good one. Nice cavities and vent lines.
Cleaned out the pot yesterday after casting some 160 swc gc from a new-to-me rcbs find.
The drawback wih having a 50# pot is that you rarely see the bottom of it. I had to pour 9 muffin ingots to empty it..

Now I'll try straight ww instead of my usual 50/50 mix. It's good for my revolver boolits but probably too soft for the 9.

@ 9,3X62AL
Sweden just got the first heavy snowfall.. Activities move indoor.. Perfect for spending time casting, reloading and reading.

[Tag]

I Too shoot a 9mm I have a Lee 125 RN mold and I have been playing with it all week trying to come up with a load that don't lead the barrel. here is what I settled on, a 50/50 mix of lino from rote metals and pure lead bullet sized to 356 with lee sizer dye pan lubed with speed green or 60/40 bees wax and vaseline. tryed tumble lube with LLA leading was bad so I pan lubed with good results. good luck with your nine

[Tag]

Oh and the powder charge 4.1 of ww 231 for the 9mm

[Houndog]

I've been playing with the 9MM all summer and my best boolet and load to date has been the Lee 356-120-2R cast of TRUCK ww with 3 oz lead free solder added per 10 pounds of WW. I air cool the boolets initally and then heat treat them in a seperate operation by putting them base down in an old toaster oven at 450 degrees and let them heat soak for one hour. I quench them in ice water and let them "cure" for at least 2 weeks before use. These boolets measure .358 as cast and heat treated. I size them to .357 to match the bore of my PT99, but they also work well in my Smith 915 with a .356 bore. I use BAC lube in an old Lyman 450 for lubing and sizing. Hardness has been in the 20-22 range. I've used Bullseye, 231, Winchester Super Field and Unique and had fairly good results with all of them, but 5GR Unique won out for consistancy in all weather conditions. It isn't as clean as some of the others, but groups stay in the 2" range at 25 yards fairly consistantly, if I do my part, in hot, cold and rainy conditions. I'm using Wolf standard primers and load to an OAL of 1.154.

The largest improvement in group size came with case segregation and preparation! We all shoot mixed cases, but for the smallest groups, one brand and lot of cases is necessary in my book! I also made my own sizing plug for a Lee die that works like a Lyman M die. The plug measures .353 on the sizing portion and .360 on the belled part with an approximately 60 degree lead in. I also seat the boolet and final crimp in seperate operations, only sizing enough to get rid of the case bell.

I'm sure there are others on this board that can do MUCH better and shoot rings around me, but that's what's worked the best for me so far.
I hope it helps.

[EDK]

Take at look at RANCH DOG's new offerings. Six cavities and designed for tumble lube. I'm thinking of trying them in 38/357.

:Fire::redneck::cbpour:

[Ugluk]

The lee 358-125-RF is doing a lot better than my other molds so far.

A couple of hours yielded 650 icewaterdropped keepers out of 700 or so.

I couldn't wait for them to fully harden and loaded a few on top of 4.7gr of vv n340 to a coal of 1.07".
I got consistent 10 shot 4" groups at 27 yds and only traces of lead, and that is probably close to the limit of the gun and my shooting skills as I've never been able to shoot well from bags without limp wristing.

Perhaps it's time to make inserts for the ransom..

[TheOldGreybeard]

Before I start, I want to thank all the folks who know so much more than I do about casting for all the helpful advice given on this forum.

I hope that sharing my experiences over the last 25 years or so on the subject of lead bullets in 9mm will be helpful and not boring. After casting bullets off and on since the late 60's, I thought I knew something about the subject, but after being referred to Cast Boolits, I have decided that I don't know much after all. None the less, my experiences may be instructive, as I have certainly made many of the possible mistakes.
By way of brief history, my first 9mm was a wartime production P-08 which didn't work at all, with lead or otherwise. Probably the mag springs, don't know, since I got rid of it after it went full auto on me...(funny story...now...).
Next there was a Colt Lightweight Commander, about which I remember nothing except that my nephew was supposed to sell it back to me if he sold it, but didn't.

There was a very early Berretta 92 something or other (pre-Army), which shot alright, but not great (down the road...) followed by a hiatus from 9mm, broken by the purchase of a Witness Combo set. Charming thing, it allowed shooting 9mm and 40 S&W by changing slides, barrels and mags. I messed around with that from the early 90's until last month....
I experimented with various lead bullets over the years, most notably a 124 RN with gas check (RCBS) a 125 CP flat base (RCBS) and the 125 TLTC from Lee. More recently, I stumbled on a H&G 125 BBTC which casts over .358...(more about that later).

I should comment that the gas check bullet would always shoot, but I'm to cheap and impatient to go to all that trouble. I shoot a lot, so need to be efficient...

In my early experiments, I never could get the TLTC bullet to shoot at all. I corresponded with the very helpful folks at Lee, and they alerted me to the idea of softer bullets "bumping" up to the bore diameter, which didn't work at all in any of my 9mm guns.

MUCH more recently, I read here on Cast Boolits about sizing bullets "work softening" the surface, so decided to test whether that was happening. (From here on out, the discussion is about tests in the Witness...until I bought the M&P.) During my recent struggles a friend alerted me to an observation made by one of the professional shooters who said, in essence, "most 9mm's other than 1911's have very shallow rifling, so I always shoot FMJ bullets in them...". In my view, this is a critical issue!

I cast some bullets using the H&G mold and tested them in the Witness, after sizing them down to.366. They shot terrible, most weren't even stabilized and the barrel was so leaded up after only 10 shots that is took real effort to clean it out. After cleaning it up, I tried the same alloy, same mould, but left them around .358 and lo and behold it WORKED. Heartened by this experience, I tried the Lee TLTC, in the same alloy and it worked pretty well...moderate lead, reasonable accuracy etc.
The same day I tested the TL bullet I ran into a fellow at the range who offered to sell me a 1 month old S&W M&P 9mm,and after shooting it, I decided to go for it. After a little more shooting, I sold the Witness at an Arms Collectors meeting. It's a fine pistol, if you are willing to buy jacketed bullets...I am not...nuf said...
Now here a month later, I have shot the M&P more, including a steel match last Saturday, and ALL the bullets I have tried have worked well. The plain base from the RCBS mold and the bevel base from the H&G both clean out the barrel if fired after something that left much lead. Today (12/17/10) I shot 40 rounds of the Lee TLTC and there was very light leading near the muzzle and the accuracy was very acceptable. The load was 5.0 gr. of Green Dot, and the alloy tests 073 BHS (Brown hardness Scale). To put this in perspective, the scale runs from Linotype which tests 060 to pure lead which tests 098 or so.
Tomorrow I will try to run around 100 rounds through the M&P at our IDPA match, to see what the barrel looks like...using the Lee TLTC. I want bullets that work, and don't take hours of messing around to make it happen if possible.

My conclusions:
1. It has been said here and in other contexts: Size matters. In bullets, it seems to be the case...fitting bullets to 9mm barrels can be tricky...bigger is probably better, if they feed and chamber.
2. Soft lead bullets obturating up to bore diameter seems to work very well in revolvers...I am not sure why, but doesn't seem to work for beans in autos, especially 9mm autos...
3. Shallow rifling doesn't seem to like lead bullets, it seems to just strip and not stabilize the bullets, and leads terrible to boot...
4. Velocity matters...
5. It's the search that's fun, but so is the shooting, when everything works as intended.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night! TheOldGreybeard, Eugene, OR

[TheOldGreybeard]

If anybody is interested, I shot the 9mm at our IDPA match yesterday and had a respectable showing. Certainly the gun didn't keep me from placing higher!
After shooting a two stages, I looked at the barrel and saw only light leading near muzzle. After finishing the match, around 90 rounds, I looked again and it looked to be, if anything, less lead than earlier. Certainly not building up, and the accuracy was quite adequate. After removing the barrel at my shop for close examination, I decided it wasn't even worth cleaning it...WOOHOO!

[dualsport]

I have wrestled this demon off and on for 20 yrs. and have concluded that the quest for successful 9mm cb loads is an invitation to madness, at least to some of us. Nevertheless, when I read about other's success I am drawn back for another attempt, like a moth to a flame. No doubt it is my technique that is the problem. I have many thousands of 9mm cases that beckon me, I will not give up. Current efforts are with the Ranch Dog 100 gr. .380 boolit and the Lee 358-125RF over Unique. Leading in my Tanfoglio TA90 is minimal and accuracy with both is around 8" at 25 yds. At least there's a 'group'! Next I will mess with bhn changes.

[turbo1889]

Not a direct answer to the original question of the original poster, but is an answer to the possible problems the original poster has been warned about with using tumble lube type lubrication in the 9mm cartridge.

Long story short, pressure curve shape matters. If you are going to limit yourself to book loads only, Blue Dot and Accurate #7 powders are the place to look towards. Yes your going to be using up your powder supply twice as fast as other choices because it takes twice as much of those slower powders (and even more of even slower powders that are "off the book" loads) to get the same performance at the muzzle; but change in pressure curve shape significantly reduces the stress placed on your cast boolits and the lube they are lubed with.

Personally, with my preference for heavier weight boolits if I was going to limit myself to a Lee 6-cav. mold then I would probably lean towards the Lee #358-140-SWC mold and seat it only as deep as necessary to fit the chamber and magazine and let as much boolit as possible hang out the end of the case which would put my crimp on the driving band above the last lube groove and below the actual crimp groove. That is a combination I haven’t actually tried but I've done basically the same thing with other similar molds. My AP-9 will even feed 158 grain button nose wad-cutters such as one would use in a revolver loaded with only the bottom 2/3 or less inside the case. Those loads hit hard with lots of smack down and laser like accuracy out of that gun since I've got them cranked up to muzzle velocities that leave a 38-spl. load in the dust and still am within safe pressure limits (figured out how to install a pressure trace sensor on that grease gun under the machine gun look alike barrel shroud).

Anyway, have fun and be safe; just letting you know you can do away with a lot of headache and pickiness out of the 9mm if you go with a larger quantity of slower burning powder rather then a smaller quantity of faster burning powder. Assuming of course that you got a boolit big enough to fit your bore in a tight squeeze fit, that is step one with the 9mm and all bets are off if you don't get that one done right first.

[fecmech]

I would second Turbo's comments about powders. If you want to use light loads of say 120@1000fps you may have decent luck with the faster powders. If you want to go up in the jacketed range around 1200 fps (4" bbl) then I had excellent results with Hogdon Longshot and Blue Dot with properly fit bullets with good lube. Blue dot has the added advantage that I don't believe you can overload it in the 9MM as you run out of case capacity before you run into pressure trouble. Eight grains (which fills the case) according to Alliant is only 29K psi with a 124 lead.

[9.3X62AL]

Harder alloys and proper sizing can ameliorate the effects of shallow rifling and too-fast twist rates. Predicate boolit diameter on throat diameter. Use a large enough expander spud that you're not down-sizing your boolits during the seating step. And LAY OFF the taper crimping excesses! In other words--treat the 9mm like a rifle caliber, and it gets almost lead-friendly.

+1 to the idea of slower powders, too. Herco and Blue Dot are better for full-potential 9mm loads than are Bullseye or WW-231/HP-38. Cast or jacketed.

[TheOldGreybeard]

It may be worth noting that 5.0 gr. of Grn. Dot is nearly a case full. Seating the bullet actually compacts the powder to some extent. I have also shot some of the lead bullets successfully with Titegroup (book loads). It seems to work alright. The comment from Turbo 1889 certainly makes sense to me and my results don't show any inconsistency with it...TOG

[docmagnum357]

I have also been pilling my hair and cusing about 9mm cast loads. i think the real problems are three fold. 1) shallow rifling. 2) fast twist rate. a 38 special is arounfd 1 turn in 16 inches. my Cz 9mm is 1 turn in 9 1/4" 3) very inconsistent Brass. I never had had much luck with any cast bullets in a 9mm, but my next efforts are going to be with the Lee 140 grain swc. Also, I have had some very accurate loads with Tail Boss, and 2400, although they wer too slow to gt enough pressure/ recoil impulse to cycle the slide. Folks are probably on the right track with blue dot, other powders in the slower range. I like accurate #7 for plated bullets(duh! it was develope for 9mm NATO loads, 124 Grain bullets). Just haven't found the right cast bullet to make my Cz75 sing yet. it is usually very accurate.

[9.3X62AL]

One possible advantage the SWC or TC designs may have is their longer bearing surface than that of many RN designs. This helps the boolit get a better purchase on the grooves and lands. Why makers of 9mm pistols insist on the way-fast twist rates is beyond me.

[fecmech]

I have also been pilling my hair and cusing about 9mm cast loads. Just haven't found the right cast bullet to make my Cz75 sing yet. it is usually very accurate.

The Lee 121 TC boolit with the lube groove, Lyman 356402 or RCBS124 CN are all excellent 9MM bullets and all very accurate. I would be very surprised if you did not get good results with any of these bullets water dropped over a stiff charge of Longshot (my favorite!) or Blue Dot.

[TheOldGreybeard]

In case anybody is interested, since I commented that I had found the Lee 9mm Tumble Lube bullet to work well in a S&W M&P, I have shot three matches with it. The round count at the latest match on !/8 was between 125 and 150. After the match, I looked at the barrel and it had less lead in it than at the beginning. It's almost completely clean now, so I lubed the slide and put it away!
I conclude that in a gun with a good barrel, the TL bullet will work fine....this after messing around unsuccessfully with it for over 20 years. Go figure!

[tackstrp]

interesting comments about the lee 358-105-SWC and sizing it down to fit at .356. or 9 mm. I tried that in a Kel Tec 380 and it did not work at all. Every round was a failure to feed properly. I did not try in my Glock 17L. I have the lee 356-102-1R again not having much luck in a kel tec. 380. FTF ..Tempted to try both of those in my SIG 239. In my Glock i have a Lone Wolf barrel and shoot the lee TL356-124-TC . Leading is not a problem at all. I use White label alox thined down to 60% mineral sprits. I have a Aim point red dot on the 17l so i shoot at 25 yard the max at the indoor range. On target not sure what the distance would be at Parker County shooting club.

I appreciate reading all the comments and will pay more attention to my targets for group size and bullets that are tumbling.

I use Ramshot True Blue powder

[Boolseye]

I'll weigh in. I've been shooting the Lee TL356-124TC. THey drop at around .357, so I don't size them for my p226, which slugged at .355. I use 45-45-10, and they group well for me. There is some leading, but it's not serious. I use #7 or Blue Dot, and push them to around 1000fps. I think they'd be alright if I sized them to .356, too, but why bother? I also have that little .356-102 1R–no leading out of the pk380, sized to .356 (it, too, slugged at .355).

[NHlever]

I am very new to casting for a 9mm, but I had very good luck with the Lee 358-125RF cast from 1-15 alloy, sized to .358, and lubed with Thompson Blue Angel. I know I've probably done at least a couple of things wrong here, but I sure got some small groups with that combo. It will require more testing to see about leading issues, etc. since I only had 50 rounds made up. My little Ruger SR9-C gave me a couple of groups under 1 1/2" (5 shot) at 25 yards over my pistol rest, and sure surprised me!

[Ugluk]

The Lee 358-125RF has come through in my Taurus PT99. Waterdropped ww and sized 358 with BAC over a charge of 5.1gr VV N340.
I switched to brass stamped WCC and WIN and that has been the end of the chambering troubles. Improved groups over my previous load with Nosler jhp's as well.
Little leading with no accumulation.
The chronograph ran out of daylight before I could get up to this one, but I estimate it's around 1150fps.
Oal is 1.06" and primers Magtech sp.

[skeet1]

I have just started using the Lee 358-105 Bullet in my Glock 17. I had trouble feeding at first and then started crimping in the crimping groove. I know what they say about using to much crimp on cases like this but I use a fairly heavy crimp and 4.4 gr. of unique and it work great so far.

Ken

[Ugluk]

Just fired 15 through the CED. My estimation was correct. Average 1150fps with one strange dip to 1120.

String 7
1) 350.9 -0.4
2) 353.0 1.7
3) 354.0 2.7
4) 355.5 4.2
5) 352.1 0.8
6) 350.0 -1.3
7) 350.6 -0.7
8) 348.5 -2.8
9) 354.6 3.3
10) 353.0 1.7
11) 352.7 1.4
12) 352.4 1.1
13) 348.2 -3.1
14) 352.1 0.8
15) 342.4 -8.9 f

High: 355.5
Low: 342.4
E.S.: 13.1
Ave.: 351.3
S.D.: 3.1
95%: ±1.8

I'm really happy with this boolit and load.

[MtGun44]

38-105-SWC crimped in the crimp groove works perfectly in 9mm and .380 for me. I have
shot many in 9mm, but literally only a handful in .380 just to try it out in the KelTech P3AT,
worked perfectly. FTF may be LOA or no TC on the case.

As to "It would probably work fine sized to .356 . . . ." I'll suggest that you may well find
it works, but many, many folks have not had any luck with .356 in 9mm. But some bbls
are small enough to make it work.

Bill