Safe way to empty a 'Dud' and remove the Primer ?

[DoctorBill]

I have two duds - squibs that I have kinetically pulled the bullets from.

How can I safely remove the primer if they won't fire - they might explode when
I try to de-prime them....

DoctorBill

[billyb]

we have dud buckets at our range. I check them the first thing when I get to the range and find a lot of duds. I pull the boolits and resize the brass normaly. I wrap an old towel around the press before I get to the deprime stage. Have done hundreds this way and by going easy have never had one go off. Bill

[Shiloh]

I just de-prime as usual but go slow. Never an issue. I don't go as far as billyb. That is, I see no need to wrap the press.

Shiloh

[NickSS]

When I first started reloading I used the original lee loader to load 30-06 rounds. With that setup seating the new primers was always an adventure as you placed the shell in the die and the primer on an anvil and used a mallet to drive a rod down in the case to force the primer into the primer pocket. every now and then a primer would fire as I did this. Other than startling me I suffered no ill effects from the experience. Now I just decap the cases in my resizing die/ I have been doing this for 45 years or so and have yet to have one pop when I was doing so.

[winelover]

Slow and steady as Shiloh does. Even works for those occasional upside down primers.:holysheep Towel idea wouldn't hurt either!

Winelover

[mike in co]

When I first started reloading I used the original lee loader to load 30-06 rounds. With that setup seating the new primers was always an adventure as you placed the shell in the die and the primer on an anvil and used a mallet to drive a rod down in the case to force the primer into the primer pocket. every now and then a primer would fire as I did this. Other than startling me I suffered no ill effects from the experience. Now I just decap the cases in my resizing die/ I have been doing this for 45 years or so and have yet to have one pop when I was doing so.

what nick said.....

it is an impact device..if you dont hit it , it wont go off.....so raise the ram and with nice even pressure push the primer out...end of story, no blast shields, no soaking....simply push it out.


mike in co

[koehn,jim]

I shoot a little wd40 in the case and let it sit a few min before messing with it, it kills the primer and eliminates the problem. I went to this because some brands like federal are sensitive and i set a few off. It was no real problem as I wear safety glasses when loading but it was loud the wd40 solves that problem.

[frkelly74]

Or you could pop the primer by chambering the round after pulling the bullet and dumping the powder and firing it. If it doesn't pop it is dead and you can deprime it as usual. Oil and WD40 work also but you have to clean them out before re using the brass.

[BruceB]

I shoot a little wd40 in the case and let it sit a few min before messing with it, it kills the primer and eliminates the problem. I went to this because some brands like federal are sensitive and i set a few off. It was no real problem as I wear safety glasses when loading but it was loud the wd40 solves that problem.


A few years ago I performed a test along these lines and reported it here.

I IMMERSED,m eaning SUBMERGED, some LP primers in each of WD40, gun oil, and Hoppes' #9. The primers were left in their baths until test-fired. Every 24 hours, I primed a .45ACP case or two from each batch of primers and tried firing them.

THEY ALL FIRED NORMALLY FOR ABOUT THREE DAYS! After that, they became progressively weaker until all were inert at about one week's immersion time. Before that time, at least some of them still fired, however weakly.

A few minutes' exposure to a contaminant will accomplish nothing....you'll still have a very live primer.

Don't believe me? Try it yourself.....

[Char-Gar]

I have deprimed many cases with a regular press and die and never had a problem. I have even deprimed cases with a Wilson punch and base set and never had a problem..well urrh..that is sorta not true.

A few year back I picked up a couple hundred vintage (like 1920s) Winchester primed 30US (Krag cases). I didn't want those old primers and there was a movie I wanted to watch on the tele. I took a wooden TV try into the bedroom and began to punch out those primers with a Wilson punch/base set and a ball peen hammer.

Everything went swimmingly for the first hundred until one went POW and it set off about 20 more in the recess in the base. Well, that was not a POW but something far more significant! The wife jumped straight up the wall, the TV tray is still black and pocked marked, and my hand stung from the jump of the base. But there was no blood, but plenty of smoke and female screams.

[robertsm53]

Durn, I bet that GOT YOUR ATTENTION!!

[jhrosier]

I have deprimed using a regular decapping die in my press.
Slowly raising the ram and holding a thick loading manual between myself and the press seems to work.
However, most of the time, for cheap & common calibers, I just throw the rejects into an empty powder can that I will bury when it gets full. It is only about half full after ten years so I have time to think up a better plan.

Jack

[Freischütz]

I use the slow and easy method too. I put a piece of 2x4 in front of the ram and make sure my eye protection is on.

You might be able to use the hydraulic method like one uses when decapping Berdan primers.

[jonk]

I just punch em out with a universal decapper.

I save the primer and re-use it too, if a simple matter of being inserted upside down or something, i.e if it isn't crushed.

[nicholst55]

Just don't forget to wear your safety glasses, and you should be fine. As sated earlier, primers are detonated from percussion, so don't percuss them (is that even a word?)!

[PDshooter]

I just deep six them in a lake, pond, thats if it's small arms AMMO. Now if it's a 105mm round I call EOD......[smilie=s:

[mike in co]

I just deep six them in a lake, pond, thats if it's small arms AMMO. Now if it's a 105mm round I call EOD......[smilie=s:

waste of good brass
and
the primer, when dried out, will most likely still fire.....(primer compound is wet as put into the cup, then dried)

mike in co

[DoctorBill]

I suppose - if the primer does go off, I would be suffering from "Percussus" - right.

I still don't have the nerve to tap it out.

Doing it with a DIE means the explosion (if it did) would be confined inside
the DIE, which might be a bad thing - no where for the hot gases to go.

I like the idea of immersing them - but plain old soapy water should
really screw them up. Let them set in it for several days - then pop them
out while still wet.

I'll try that.

If I don't return in several days and relate what happened, then I died from "Percussus." :bigsmyl2:

DoctorBill

[lunicy]

do it in a press.
Go easy, smoothly

Had one go off a few days ago on me. (it was crushed)
Not a big deal.
It pops on the press, you jump, thats it.
You are wearing glasses arent you.

I have done probably a few thousand. I have only set two off. They were both crushed.

Nothing to be scared of.

[Echo]

we have dud buckets at our range. I check them the first thing when I get to the range and find a lot of duds. I pull the boolits and resize the brass normaly. I wrap an old towel around the press before I get to the deprime stage. Have done hundreds this way and by going easy have never had one go off. Bill

+1 - have done this often, and never had one go off. Go slow - or don't - I'll bet it would be hard to make a primer go off when de-priming.

[Echo]

I suppose - if the primer does go off, I would be suffering from "Percussus" - right.

I still don't have the nerve to tap it out.

Doing it with a DIE means the explosion (if it did) would be confined inside
the DIE, which might be a bad thing - no where for the hot gases to go.

DoctorBill

Well, No, it wouldn't be confined inside the die. The primer would pop out the bottom of the shell holder - probably a good idea to put a towel strategically to catch the possible ejection.

[mike in co]

I still don't have the nerve to tap it out.



DoctorBill

ok tell us why used those words"tap it out"

you are NOT going to TAP IT OUT.
you are going to PUSH it out.......

go back and read it all....push...not tap

one does not bang(tap) on things designed to bang.....

PUSH

[DoctorBill]

http://www.mynetimages.com/46d4a851e5.jpg

You can de-prime almost any cartridge regardless of caliber (above .28 caliber)
with this old LEE hand Loading tool without having to set up a Press with the Specific Die.

I was de-priming bags of various dirty Brass from an Estate Sale while setting in my
easy chair watching O'Reilly on Fox News network.

Using this tool, I can de-prime various Brass cases faster than someone with a press and
sit on my butt enjoying a Porter and swearing at Nancy Pelosi when O'Reilly shows her swaggering
around the House of Representatives.

THAT is why I said 'TAP', MIKE....!

DoctorBill

[mike in co]

http://www.mynetimages.com/46d4a851e5.jpg

You can de-prime almost any cartridge regardless of caliber (above .28 caliber)
with this old LEE hand Loading tool without having to set up a Press with the Specific Die.

I was de-priming bags of various dirty Brass from an Estate Sale while setting in my
easy chair watching O'Reilly on Fox News network.

Using this tool, I can de-prime various Brass cases faster than someone with a press and
sit on my butt enjoying a Porter and swearing at Nancy Pelosi when O'Reilly shows her swaggering
around the House of Representatives.

THAT is why I said 'TAP', MIKE....!

DoctorBill

BUT THAT IS NOT HOW TO DEPRIME A LIVE PRIMER.....!
DONT DO IT...
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A PRESS TO PUSH IT OUT WITH...I CANNOT RECCOMMEND TAPPING IT OUT.
NOT A GOOD THING AT ALL

mike in co
( just for the record, i am back up to over 100 lee loaders...8 of them are target models...thanks molly)

[jonk]

I think part of the issue here is that people think a primer is going to blow up their decapping die or take off their hand.

I've had one go off when using the universal decapper. It DID indeed shoot down the spent primer hole in the press and came out and hit me, with about enough force for me to say, 'huh. A little harder, that might even have stung.' By the time the primer unseats itself, travels down the press, and ricochets out, it has little force left.

I've also had them go off when using the Lee loader priming system. Not enough flame made it by the seating rod to even singe the hairs on my hand, and the force wasn't even enough to lift the case off the seating base.

I am thrifty. I won't let good primers go to waste if they can be salvaged. Even if they can't be salvaged, I can't stand to let good brass go to waste.

Your money, your choice, but I don't like to waste things.

[DoctorBill]

I am going to use the hand de-primer on it, but first I have poured
soapy water into the two cases and I'll let it set for a couple of days.

Then I will put a rag over everything, wear my safety glasses and
hope for the best.

Two 30-30 Brass cases shouldn't go to waste.

I am of the generation, taught by my parents, who lived thru the
Great Depression, to eat everything on my plate, not waste food,
and keep EVERYTHING just in case I might need it later !

I put my name on EVERYTHING, also !

As a consequence, my garage and house are loaded up with 'Stuff" -
and I am now to the point where I am surprised when I find something
that I forgot I had !

I think people of my ilk are called "Hoarders" now - there are even TV
shows about us folk.

My wife and kids will probably toss most all of it....I should do that.
If you don't know you have it - why keep it !

My Dad was Chief Engineer of HALLICRAFTER'S RADIO in Chicago, IL
and had a garage full of his "Treasures" of Ham Radio stuff.
My brother rented a Dumpster and tossed most all of it when Dad died.
Made me heart sick.
But I didn't want it, either.

I got his 94 Winchester 30-30, though !

Life's a bitch.
Then You die.
Then you go to Hell
and burn FOREVER....

lol - well maybe not lol....

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

The two WET, hot primers popped right out with the hand taping punch w/o
a single problem.

I'm still alive.

DoctorBill

[Three44s]

I also would not have tapped out those live primers ...... I'm glad you did not have an incident.

The soaking was not what made the difference ....... an above post spoke of a test that showed solvents took three days to WEAKEN primers ..... not stop them.

The system you used put more of your body parts in harms way than simply lubing those two cases and running into your newly bought .30-30 FL sizer and letting the press take the gaff.

I would have done one of two things ......

1) Chamber each in your model 94 and fire them .........

2) lube them and FL size them ...... using a pair of safety glasses and an old towel .......

Glad it worked out for you ........ but you took an unnecessary risk.

Best regards and thank you much for the good .25-35 die set ...... I'll be reporting back here soon on progress our old "ranch heirloom" getting back in action!!!


Three 44s

[leadman]

In all the full length resizing dies I have checked there is a bleed or vent somewheres utowards the top of the die to relieve pressure. Had a Lee 8x57 die that was in the neck area, buggered up the neck, Lee replaced it.

[DoctorBill]

I wet the primers with WATER - not a solvent. BIG Difference !

Solvents are non-polar and will not wet ionic material - the primer
compound essentially stays dry when a solvent is applied to it.

This brings to mind all the admonitions to keep oils out of the case
when de-priming and sizing the cases - why...? It boogers up the
primers and one can get squibs with oil contamination.

Water is EXTREMELY "Polar" and will form a 'cage' around ionic
(polar) material which is what primer material is.

Water "wets" things like that and takes up much of the force that would
set off a primer.

Copper and Lead Azide (older primer material) is pretty safe when
wet - it gets dangerous after it dries out.

I think this is being way, way overblown, myself.

The primer was being pushed out almost exactly as a de-priming pin would
be doing in a press.
Most answering this Thread said very few, if any, fired off when pressed
out backwards. Good design of the primers !

I did not 'whack' the pin with my plastic hammer, either - I gently tapped
on it with a rag over the top and safety glasses on while saying
ten Hail Mary's....and looking away.

There was ample space around the de-primer rod and the case mouth.
The primer falls down into a pit or hole.
- There was no confinement -
Had it fired, at most it would have been like a very small firecracker.

It is only a primer. I certainly would not do that with a 50 cal case, however.

...of course now I will get ten diatribes on what a confined primer can do.

DoctorBill

[Three44s]

Did you have a pair of safety glasses on the hand you held the punch with?


Three 44s

[nicholst55]

Many, many years ago, I needed some 7.62X51mm Match, .38 Spl Wadcutter, and .45 ACP Match dummy cartridges to function test (Army) guns with after working on them. I asked the Ammo folks where I was stationed about dummies and they laughed at me, so I made my own.

I won't go into details about how I drilled holes in the sides of the brass and trickled the powder out (using a very, very well lubed drill bit) ~ something I wouldn't recommend doing. After removing the powder through the three holes in the brass, I squirted liberal amounts of various products into the brass to kill the primers ~ WD-40 (widely known to migrate in around primers from the surrounding steel and kill them, according to urban legend), CLP, and a light oil known as PL Special (similar to 3-in-1 oil). This was a Friday afternoon, and I left these future dummy rounds to sit over the weekend - plenty of time to kill the primers, right?

Monday, I chambered each round and fired it, just to insure that the primers were dead. Guess what? The primers flooded with both WD-40 and CLP still 'popped,' though not with full force. I had to tap the bullets back into the case mouth on several of them. The primers flooded with PL Special were D-E-A-D!

Several months later I got a phone call from the Ammo folks advising me that they had received the dummy ammo they had ordered for me. :groner:

These days, I would simply load some 'dummies' without any primers or powder, but that wasn't an option at that time for whatever reason.

[JDFuchs]

when I end up needing to remove a live primer i use a lee universal deprimer. That way I don't need to put more pressure into the ram which would be needed if i were using the sizer's deprimer. If you don't plan on getting one you could just lower the depriming rod much further then normal for the same effect. If your relay worried about it like koehn,jim said a little WD-40 or other penetrating oil will kill it. Just be sure to clean the brass or it will kill what ever you next load into it.

[1874Sharps]

I have found the Lee universal decapping die to be very handy. I originally bought it (and the are cheap) to decap without sizing BP 45-70 cases but it works great for any Boxer case. Of course a standard sizer/decapper will work fine too, but the universal decapper is fast and easy and needs no lube.

Chargar's experiments are very interesting. We have been told for years that oil will kill a primer and that is true. I always assumed it would not take a week for it to do so.

[Mk42gunner]

http://www.mynetimages.com/46d4a851e5.jpg

You can de-prime almost any cartridge regardless of caliber (above .28 caliber)
with this old LEE hand Loading tool without having to set up a Press with the Specific Die.

I was de-priming bags of various dirty Brass from an Estate Sale while setting in my
easy chair watching O'Reilly on Fox News network.

Using this tool, I can de-prime various Brass cases faster than someone with a press and
sit on my butt enjoying a Porter and swearing at Nancy Pelosi when O'Reilly shows her swaggering
around the House of Representatives.

THAT is why I said 'TAP', MIKE....!

DoctorBill

Another thing that can be done is to chuck the depriming rod in a drill press and use that to push the primers out. It should work for most primers that aren't crimped in.

Robert

[DoctorBill]

Why doesn't anyone try plain old water with a drop of detergent to
make it "wet" better ? Let it soak a day or two.

Anyway - I'll be the first then....it works.

I may just prime up some Brass, then do the water soak, then pour the
water out and then try firing it in a rifle right afterward.

I could even let some dry a day or two to see if the effect is permanent....

Just to 'publish' the data here for all posterior to see.

Let's see....
3 normal
3 with a 48 hour water soak 2 fired one allowed to dry out.
3 with a 48 hour WD-40 soak 2 fired one allowed to dry out.
3 with a 48 hour case lube contamination soak 2 fired one allowed to dry out.

A 'Scientific" study.

DoctorBill

[Three44s]

As I recall, munitions companies use a water bath during the manufacture of primer mixtures .....

So I would be hesitant to preclude that water eliminates the chances for a primer to fire.

If the primer mixture was "wrecked" for all time or some time I doubt they could use a water bath for safety and then sell primers made under such conditions with the expectation that they would fire.

And so it would be useful for us to know one what or the other if water or water with some dish soap would effectively nullify a live primer.

When one uses a die and a press to PUSH out a live primer and has the option of placing a towel over the option and adds safety glasses ....... and keeps one private parts out of the discharge area of the press ..........

........... I'll take that system, water, soap or WD-40 or not. I've done it without and with solvents and I feel safe unless the primer is crimped into a military case.

A punch and hammer is not a good substitute for the above. The operator is putting too much in harms way unnecessarily.

Three 44s

[DoctorBill]

Black Powder was made by making a slurry of Potassium Nitrate,
Sulfur and Charcoal.

Perfectly safe wet. Can't be ignited then.

Dry it out after extruding it and BAM !

We'll see what my experiment yields.

Right now it is snowing and shooting is secondary to getting myself
and wife out of our long driveway and to work....
Isn't Winter nice ?

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/197/neanderthalthinkingju5.jpg

DoctorBill