cant shoot lead out of high power rifle

[nes4ever69]

i was talking to a customer and he said he wanted to get back in to reloading to save money on good ammo. i told him that is a good thing to do and to save even more money you can cast your own.

he decided to warn me that high power rifles are unable to shoot lead bullets due to the fact that lead can not handle the velocities that a jacketed bullet can and that makes lead bullets very dangerous to shoot out of high powered rifles.

yeah i was at work so i had to be nice[smilie=1: and kinda leave it at that. i figured some one out here can read this and have a ha ha like i did.

but nothing will beat that one i was told about a guy who just bought a mauser and needed mauser ammunition. he had no specs, he just knew it was mauser ammunition he needed.


enjoy this little story.

[RobS]

It's always nice to hear the wise that have not seen the light isn't it. Not a big deal………..just smile, shake your head and move on as any more effort is futile.

I do happen to enjoy helping those who are unknowledgeable but willing to accept that there are other ways to reload/shoot.

[OldSchool]

That has been certainly been one (of several) things that I've wondering about lead bullets. Is there nothing special that has to be done to allow the use of cast boolits in 30-06 or 32spc (to name just a couple we'll be loading)?:confused:

[Recluse]

I've simply quit telling shooters I don't know that I cast. I'll tell them I reload, and then sit back and wait for the "nothing beats factory ammo for accuracy and reliability," of which I then know I have a true amateur in my midst.

Fine with me. More primers, powder, brass and components for me--not to mention more wheelweights and lead.

:coffee:

[Hurricane]

OldSchool,

If you use lead bullets .001 to .003 inch over barrel diameter (.309 -.311 for 30 caliber and err on the side of larger is better than smaller) and keep velocity in the 1600 to 1800 fps range you will have no problem with lead bullets in your 30-06. Do not expect success if you shoot the same velocity of factory loaded cartridges.

[geargnasher]

Ahh, c'mon Hurricane, live a little. The '06 can be far better than that with cast boolits of the hunting grade, 22-2400 fps is quite doable from a ten-twist sporter with fine accuracy if you get beyond the preconceived and false limits put upon it by many of the cast reloading books.

Gear

[waksupi]

I believe Willy put together a business card here, that can be printed out. This is precisely the type of customer who need one, to direct them to this forum for instruction, so they do not need to continue looking like a fool.

[OldSchool]

Hurricane, Gear, thanks! That gives me a little more perspective on the tradeoffs.


...cast boolits of the hunting grade....

:confused:

[geargnasher]

I see no trade-offs, really. I won't argue with anyone about it, but the more I hunt with cast the more I'm convinced I was right to give up jacketed entirely. You can knock Bambi flat with a .30 caliber cast boolit going 1600 fps just as well as 2200, it just doesn't take that much. I was indicating above what is possible, and I like to let a cartridge breathe a bit. For 30 caliber at 16-1800 fps I prefer a .30-30 carbine. The bigger cases can be loaded heavy with slow powders behind heavy cast boolits to get higher velocities and good accuracy if things are done right. I just never saw the reasoning behind loading a .30-'06 with 115 grain boolits and a pinch of Red Dot getting just barely supersonic if at all. Others have different wants/needs/perspectives than I do/have. I do love a mildly loaded .357 Magnum levergun, though.

Gear

[ihmsakiwi]

Well I, was told this weekend at a IHMSA shoot by a very experienced shooter who has gone 100% back to jacketed bullets due to leading (100% lino is what he used) that apparently boolits need to be as hard or as close to copper in hardness. Then he proceeded to tell everyone that you should clean your cast shooters after every match as any powder left in the barrels doesn't get pushed out the barrel by the next shot, but gets ironed into the steel of the barrel and causes huge problems. Tell me it ain't so!!

[JeffinNZ]

I love these stories. The big secret is to console the poor soul whose tale of cast is so woeful and agree that jacketed is the best way forward. Oh, and by the way, would you like me to get rid of the horrid old lead for you and your moulds etc?

[jcwit]

Holy Smoke, I must have some awful sorry looking barrels!

[Firebricker]

Let's not forget that ALL reloads are just time bomb's ready to destroy gun's LOL
FB

[44man]

Well I, was told this weekend at a IHMSA shoot by a very experienced shooter who has gone 100% back to jacketed bullets due to leading (100% lino is what he used) that apparently boolits need to be as hard or as close to copper in hardness. Then he proceeded to tell everyone that you should clean your cast shooters after every match as any powder left in the barrels doesn't get pushed out the barrel by the next shot, but gets ironed into the steel of the barrel and causes huge problems. Tell me it ain't so!!
Not the hardness although it is a waste of good metal that can be used for alloys. It just shows he knows little about loading cast.

[qajaq59]

When someone's mind is made up why bother to confuse them with the facts?

[dragonrider]

there is a fellow in our club that insists lead boolits are too hard and will ruin your barrels. I have tried to gently enlighten him but he will not be swayed from his truth. He is a nice guy and knowledgeable in other aspects of shooting.

[bigted]

im from an old school that rides harley davidson mc's. been doing so for nigh onto 30 years and my uncle before me from the flathead days and have heard all the stories about them as well. cast is what got us here and cast will take us home again. why argue about it to folks that "have it all figured out" ?

aint about the destination....its the trip that counts and how much class do you show going about it!

let the dirty unwashed un-informed go about their ignorant ways and just pray that the light will shine its glory on em before they draw their last breath. we can continue to have our way and sometimes take a nickle from some who want to put their cash where there nasty breath is on an accuracy "test" with their j-word boolits.......proof is always in the puddin!

take em to a LONG RANGE shoot where the boolits are lead and the smoke is black and there isnt a leopold scope to be found. the funny ladder like OLD sites and those funny looking bulky front sites are all that guides these lead missles to a far away target.

[blackthorn]

Quote:--That has been certainly been one (of several) things that I've wondering about lead bullets. Is there nothing special that has to be done to allow the use of cast boolits in 30-06 or 32spc (to name just a couple we'll be loading)?

OldSchool:--From your post it appears you are new (or close to new) to the wonderful world of cast bullets. Finding this site is about half the battle but now that you are here you need to spend the next week or two (or three or four) reading the "stickies" and prior posts. If you invest that time, most (if not all) your questions will be answerd! Welcome to the best site--bar none!

[mdi]

Yep, sometimes a man (or woman) has a special need to be an "expert". Resistance is futile; any attempts to educate these folks usually results in emotional responces (anger, embarressment, etc). So, a smile and a nod is all I need to deal with these kind folks, but if asked I'll only use facts that I can back up, and not just my opinions. I'm sure all of us have met or know a "gun shop guru"...

P.S. And more lead for me![smilie=w:

[OldSchool]

Quote:--That has been certainly been one (of several) things that I've wondering about lead bullets. Is there nothing special that has to be done to allow the use of cast boolits in 30-06 or 32spc (to name just a couple we'll be loading)?

OldSchool:--From your post it appears you are new (or close to new) to the wonderful world of cast bullets. Finding this site is about half the battle but now that you are here you need to spend the next week or two (or three or four) reading the "stickies" and prior posts. If you invest that time, most (if not all) your questions will be answerd! Welcome to the best site--bar none!

Thank you, BT! We've been reading through the stickies since we found this place. Of course, as I tell my students, repetition and asking for different perspectives is what makes learning happen. Plus, it's a lot to try to understand!

[cbunt1]

Thank you, BT! We've been reading through the stickies since we found this place. Of course, as I tell my students, repetition and asking for different perspectives is what makes learning happen. Plus, it's a lot to try to understand!

Indeed it is. The most important lesson I learned around here is that you should always question conventional wisdom, but within the bounds of good sense.

I for one appreciate all the various opinions around here...I tend to learn more from the discussions where nobody quite agrees than I do the ones where everyone's on the same page!

To the OP: Don't you wish you could have showed him how you can not only shoot cast in modern rifles, but *GASP* in GLOCKS with their notorious rifling?

[Armorer]

[QUOTE=Recluse;Fine with me. More primers, powder, brass and components for me--not to mention more wheelweights and lead.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I was thinking! :castmine:

[nes4ever69]

To the OP: Don't you wish you could have showed him how you can not only shoot cast in modern rifles, but *GASP* in GLOCKS with their notorious rifling?

i do belive he was just shy of saying the bullets would vaperize in the barrel. the best part was lead bullets dont have the power of jacketed. that is were i said yep, have a nice day.


my favorite are the people who say that cleaning lead out of the barrel is a pain. the fun part is telling them that copper is a pain to clean out. :bigsmyl2:

i am one to that will inform people who want to know, but when they have no intention, forget it. just go yep and walk away going ha ha ha in my head.

[Bambeno]

[QUOTE=i am one to that will inform people who want to know, but when they have no intention, forget it. just go yep and walk away going ha ha ha in my head.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you there! I enjoy it when people want to learn but have found with the ones who just know better ;) that it is hard for someone watching to tell who the idiot is when you argue with one.

What shop you at up in the city, might have to drop in sometime I get up there?

[ihmsakiwi]

I love these stories. The big secret is to console the poor soul whose tale of cast is so woeful and agree that jacketed is the best way forward. Oh, and by the way, would you like me to get rid of the horrid old lead for you and your moulds etc?

A bit ahead of you there, I got his Lyman 20lb pot, three RCBS 7mm moulds and one 30cal mould.
Had to agree with him about it being best he sticks to jacketed.

[nes4ever69]

What shop you at up in the city, might have to drop in sometime I get up there?

bass pro shop in independence. work in the maintenance department.

[Bambeno]

I will have to give you a hollar the next time I make it up there, need to do some Christmas shopping soon anyways lol.

[curator]

Ol' Abe Lincoln said it best: "Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt," I am constantly reminded of this when I do business at Bass Pro or one of the local gun shops. For someone to actually learn they must admit the need to know. That is particularly difficult when one is already an expert.

[Hammer]

i was talking to a customer and he said he wanted to get back in to reloading to save money on good ammo. i told him that is a good thing to do and to save even more money you can cast your own.

he decided to warn me that high power rifles are unable to shoot lead bullets due to the fact that lead can not handle the velocities that a jacketed bullet can and that makes lead bullets very dangerous to shoot out of high powered rifles.



Look at the bright side - He won't be trying to scrounge our lead.....

[old turtle]

Just how did the people 200 years ago kill deer. I guess they used those long rifles to club them to death. I like to shoot cast as it much easier to clean the rifle. I have never had a leading problem and have shot every thing from softer than ww's to Linotype.
I do not cast for pistols and I wanted some lead loads for a 38 Spl. revolver. When I ask at a local gun shop if they had any lead, I was told that it will ruin the gun. On inquiring why I was told that you can not clean it. When I said thats what we have brushes for, I was told it would destroy the chamber. How do you deal with that, I left. Many black ugly rifles were present in the racks.

[Shiloh]

Let them shoot J bullets. There is already enough pressure on lead sources.

There are some folks out there who just don't want to be confused by the facts. Their minds are made up.

Shiloh

[Ole]

Heck that means less competition for our dwindling lead supplies. :drinks:

Let them stay ignorant as far as I care. :mrgreen:

[frkelly74]

You Know, when their mind is made up they don't want to be confused with facts.

[Hickory]

Well I, was told this weekend at a IHMSA shoot by a very experienced shooter who has gone 100% back to jacketed bullets due to leading (100% lino is what he used) that apparently boolits need to be as hard or as close to copper in hardness. Tell me it ain't so!!

I aquired a couple hundred pounds of linotype a long time ago and thought I could drive them faster than W-Ws in my 30-30.

The first 3 rounds shot good, and after that the group got larger and larger.
After a short shooting session (30 rounds) I checked the bore. It seemed to be loaded with lead.

I scrubbed it out and shot some of my W-W loads the shot as good as ever with no leading. The boolits were the same Lyman 311291. With the Linotype boolits going about 1800 fps and the W-W traveling around 1600 fps.

[Shiloh]

You Know, when their mind is made up they don't want to be confused with facts.

Nope.

Like Ronald Reagan said once about liberals, "They know so much that isn't so." Same with those biased against cast. Fine with me.

Shiloh

[1Shirt]

Like Dad always said, "Hain't nothin more rightous than a reformed prostitute!". Unless maybe in this day and age when there is nothing more intellegent than the gun "enthusiast" who has never shot a cast bullet. Always enjoy running into them at the range when they have a jacketed target with say an 06 that runs a group of 5-6", and I am sitting there shooting well under 3" groups with cast and Iron sights, and old eyes.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[dicko]

Ahh, c'mon Hurricane, live a little. The '06 can be far better than that with cast boolits of the hunting grade, 22-2400 fps is quite doable from a ten-twist sporter with fine accuracy if you get beyond the preconceived and false limits put upon it by many of the cast reloading books.

Gear

I agree. 1600FPS has long been the rule of thumb max for plain base, but 2400 for gas checked. To elaborate a little, I have done a good bit of testing for a book I'm hoping to write. I have started by testing for max MV before leading becomes a problem. I have been using a Sako in 308 Win. Leading is negligible at 1600, but quite heavy at 1800. That confirms the old rule of thumb, but of course a bit more might be possible in another rifle.

I have chronographed 2400FPS with 180 grain gas checked, no leading at all. I have no doubt that faster is possible, and I have reliable reports of 2700. But be aware that accuracy tends to fall off quite a lot at the high velocities. I have not yet tested that, beyond trying to aim decently. On that basis, my plain base loads at 1600 and gas checked at 2400 have been within 2.50MOA. That is not great accuracy, but remember that I was not going for best accuracy. I am confident that I will get 1.50MOA, and with GC loads at 1600FPS I have gotten MOA often enough to suggest that with better shooting on my part, MOA could be regular with that load.

Remember also that there is some evidence that GC bullets a slightly more accurate, if all else is equal, but is not guaranteed.